Improving SPL

[bass_4_ever 1]

im hitting a 145.9 @ 38hz on the TL with 6 cheap 10s running around 1400-1500wrms....and its not a wall, everything is behind my backseats in an 03 golf. I'm not comparing, I'm just saying that with what you have, your definately capable of breaking the 150dbs.

Like everyone else is saying: a new box is a MUST

Edited September 2, 2009 by bass_4_ever

[AlanHall 6]

1st of all.. this enclosure was built to go behind the back seat of a trail blazer. we gave it to drew to help him out . its no way designed to show true potiental of a " wall" design.. the woofers are side by side..with a low tuned port on top of them. regardless what anyone says.. THIS set up with MT will need more power to come to life.. saying this car or that set up with less power did that score means nothing .. im very sure better numbers could be had with a different style set up and the same power.. but with power a wall will smash it .. and honestly guys.. Drew doesnt exactly know what hes doing when he tests.. sorry drew.. lol. so who knows where this thing realy peaks and what its doing . IF is honestly is peaking at 33hz like hes saying then im going to say this box has an impedance issue.. it was a test for the MT in the 1st place to see how it liked this large of a box.. maybe they arent enjoying playing in 7cubes? i have yet to read one responce with a recamended box for the MTs to get these numbers you all claim he should have.. instead just telling him what he has wrong .. this box pounds music and thats its intent.. very very seldom do you get both with out what? what is that?? POWER......

numbers are low for that truck--either way...

I'm comparing apples to apples... we have the exact same truck, i have 2-15's and 1760 clamped watts, he has 2-18's and ?? watts, you should test the power output on the amps to see what he's getting/what impedence rise your dealing with, something is wrong somewhere... with 2x the power you will see a gain if the electrical can handle it..*my box is tuned to 24hz so don't go there either

**I mean that in good humor

How is your wall setup? subs and port?? your doing a 150 legal ??

i said i havent messed with anything to check impedance rise and by why HE has found im guessing a high impedance rise ..and the woofers might be hating that box... his MT are built to handle a mojo 4K each.. what woofers are you using? i think the way the woofers are layed out is really effecting the numbers.. im sure a non walled set up would make a little better scores with his power.. they work with the vehicle a bit better than a wall . .

[AlanHall 6]

1st of all.. this enclosure was built to go behind the back seat of a trail blazer. we gave it to drew to help him out . its no way designed to show true potiental of a " wall" design.. the woofers are side by side..with a low tuned port on top of them. regardless what anyone says.. THIS set up with MT will need more power to come to life.. saying this car or that set up with less power did that score means nothing .. im very sure better numbers could be had with a different style set up and the same power.. but with power a wall will smash it .. and honestly guys.. Drew doesnt exactly know what hes doing when he tests.. sorry drew.. lol. so who knows where this thing realy peaks and what its doing . IF is honestly is peaking at 33hz like hes saying then im going to say this box has an impedance issue.. it was a test for the MT in the 1st place to see how it liked this large of a box.. maybe they arent enjoying playing in 7cubes? i have yet to read one responce with a recamended box for the MTs to get these numbers you all claim he should have.. instead just telling him what he has wrong .. this box pounds music and thats its intent.. very very seldom do you get both with out what? what is that?? POWER......

numbers are low for that truck--either way...

I'm comparing apples to apples... we have the exact same truck, i have 2-15's and 1760 clamped watts, he has 2-18's and ?? watts, you should test the power output on the amps to see what he's getting/what impedence rise your dealing with, something is wrong somewhere... with 2x the power you will see a gain if the electrical can handle it..*my box is tuned to 24hz so don't go there either

**I mean that in good humor

How is your wall setup? subs and port?? your doing a 150 legal ??

i said i havent messed with anything to check impedance rise and by why HE has found im guessing a high impedance rise ..and the woofers might be hating that box... his MT are built to handle a mojo 4K each.. what woofers are you using? i think the way the woofers are layed out is really effecting the numbers.. im sure a non walled set up would make a little better scores with his power.. they work with the vehicle a bit better than a wall . .

what do you guys find so wrong with the box? 14cubes.. 140inch of port? besides the ports a touch small.. . .

[AlanHall 6]

Power schmower, if the setup isn't efficient to begin with it's not going to get loud off of only double the power. Your going to need several thousand watts to just keep up with single sub setups off of 2K watts. You need to listen to all the people here that are telling you a new box is the best solution and is the first thing that you need to do. While power is important sometimes it doesn't do what you want it to and in this case I know that you'll still be disapointed with a setup in a wall that probably won't even break a 146 off of this more power that your going to add.

With the 2 Sundown 1000's that you have and a wall a reasonable number that you should be doing is at least a 150. I know that the 1000's will produce a solid 800+ watts after impedence rise, unless you have an ungodly amount of rise then could be a bit less. The point is that this particular box is not efficient at all. If it's not getting loud of the power you have, it will take too much to make sense to do it.

I can do over a 150 in my car in a no wall setup off of as little as 2400 watts, and I'm not trying to compare myself to you but in a way if I'm capable of doing that you should be capable of so much more in a walled setup. Just listen to the countless cries of people telling you to build a new box first. You'll save yourself a ton of trouble and will be much happier with it when you add more power down the road.

/rant

But, but they need more power to 'come alive'

an overly efficiant box will not sow much gains with adding power..it will fall off at some point at least every SPL van we have done has worked different depending on power.. the more efficiant designed ripped with low power but gained little when adding amps.. the others we built with lots of power where louder with power.. but less loud with lower power.. make sence? i saw drew do a 146 somthing this weekend with his new amp at 41hz... im not sure whats changed from the claimed 143s before..

[AlanHall 6]

oh yeah.. and i still have yet to anyone recamend a BETTER design.. just everyone saying this one sucks.. if you know it sucks then you forsure can come up with something better??

[bassahaulic 155]

I'm not sure what changed from the two amps to this one amp. I did my original testing at a local shop and did the exact same thing I did at the show. A sweep followed by burps.

All I know is I gained 1.4db by going in between two 1000's and a single 2000.

And since it is sooooo wrong, what box should I use? What woofer/port setup is soooooo amazing that i MUST have it?

[rushnrun 14]

My truck isn't a wall. mine's built to take up the whole rear below the window line.

a better design for his wall would be both subs to the far passenger side and the port on the drivers-with more port area--and the box to be better sealed off from the rear of the cab.

I'm running roughly the same port area as him and I'm running 2-15's and 8ish cubes.

The woofers I'm using are Massive audio DMX 15's...

they do 150.1 on one massive p1500 wired to .5ohm (and giving all it has)

or I've done 150.5 with 4 of the p1500's wired 1 ohm per pair, clamped at 1760watts for all four amps together---the subs have mechanical issues at such a low note--they're designed to be burped at 70+ hz (my setup does 150+ from roughly 28-34hz... still play mid-high 40's down to 18hz...)

my scores are legal MECA headrest scores, I'll go out and get a leagal sealed dash score in a min

getting ready to do some rebuilding. I need a 155+ (headrest) to be competitive

[shizzzon 461]

i dont know exactly what u are hitting and your note and all that but this is what i do know-

You have 2 18s in 14 cubes net with 140sqin of port area tuned to 32hz.

I'm gonna assume that is actually correct and you are now running a SAZ-2000D.

For starters, you probably gained a lot because your amps previously weren't gain matched probably.

Now, onto the present-

Wrong tuning does not hurt your score as much as wrong port area does.

If you are serious about burping... you need 250-375sqin of port area.

That's one thing that will tremendously help.

If you want to continue tweaking things without modifying the wall, then try this-

Passenger door open, brace outside driver side of vehicle with as many fat people as possible.

take driver door panel off.

u need to find your note for sure as well.

Try and plug your port as best as possible and run a sweep at near max volume on a tlab so u can see what the car's peak is.

i got a competitor local to me with 2 18" RE SXs off of a single saz-2000d in a wall doin 151.7 @36hz at the headrest on a tlab.

[AlanHall 6]

i dont know exactly what u are hitting and your note and all that but this is what i do know-

You have 2 18s in 14 cubes net with 140sqin of port area tuned to 32hz.

I'm gonna assume that is actually correct and you are now running a SAZ-2000D.

For starters, you probably gained a lot because your amps previously weren't gain matched probably.

Now, onto the present-

Wrong tuning does not hurt your score as much as wrong port area does.

If you are serious about burping... you need 250-375sqin of port area.

That's one thing that will tremendously help.

If you want to continue tweaking things without modifying the wall, then try this-

Passenger door open, brace outside driver side of vehicle with as many fat people as possible.

take driver door panel off.

u need to find your note for sure as well.

Try and plug your port as best as possible and run a sweep at near max volume on a tlab so u can see what the car's peak is.

i got a competitor local to me with 2 18" RE SXs off of a single saz-2000d in a wall doin 151.7 @36hz at the headrest on a tlab.

see thats the thing.. its not a burp car.. drews just crying .. haha and again.. this was a free box that we had in another install.. see 2 18s behind the rear seat build i did in the build section.. but we pulled it out and then drew got it ..its not the best design for his truck.. and maybe not even for these MT .. i think they honestly dont like being in this large of a box .. i very much know woofers on the passenger side port drivers side would be much better.. considering i have helped build or owned the loudest mod vans in usaci , my teams old builds are still winning mod classes under the new owners names.. .. (build them and sell them after finals) ... and i have already said we could get better numbers from a none walled box with less power.. why do you think M5 always says dont use a wall? just cause its a wall dont mean its automatically 5db louder .. but i do find it hard to believe a box tuned to 24hz is doing a 150 legal on the TL with 1700w... shizzzon.. these are 4 spider MTs.. 1000w each isnt quite the same as some SX ...

[shizzzon 461]

i didnt really understand the last part of your comment but we have team meets every other weekend and we personally metered his setup for kicks because he usually runs a single Adassa Warlord in his setup but that's in for repairs at that time. He got the Saz-2000d from a friend who is also building a 10kw+ install who is also a long-time competitor.

The guy i am referring to with the 2 18s is snoopdan if u ever heard of him...

He's got his own site and has been in the lanes for a few yrs that i know of.

With the help fo their knowledge and things i test myself, we are all not part of a team, we all are just friends who help each other. Some info, we keep to ourselves,

And walls, i ONLY suggest people run walls if they intend on bassracing or just plain have to to get the most cone area in the vehicle.

Walls have no loading area so their cabin gain can drop by over 50%! For straight burps, walls are a horrible choices especially for single or dual subs.

If you are referring that the OP's wall is tuned to 24hz... well, he has low port area, that is the whole reason it's hard to get loud. Tuning really isn't hurting that much.

You can be tuned wrong and still peak at car's peak.

[rushnrun 14]

but i do find it hard to believe a box tuned to 24hz is doing a 150 legal on the TL with 1700w...

check the meca site... there's more than plenty of people that can vouch for my 150+ DB-MECA Headrest and yes it's tuned to 24 hz.... Granted only a few people have seen the clamped power--not everyone gets to get in my vehicle that "deep".

it doesn't do a 50 sealed on the dash-as it's not built to do so (never claimed it did).. the impedence rise is crazy with my door shut.. roughly 146 off one of my 1500's legal--car off...--just tested it--just minutes ago.

also... @ headrest--does a 143 @ 18hz

**my baffle is getting pretty weak and the box needs rebuilt... my numbers are down from my original testing 2 months ago--the system has been "street beaten" since and apparently wore on the poorly constructed "test" box.

[rushnrun 14]

If you are referring that the OP's wall is tuned to 24hz... well, he has low port area, that is the whole reason it's hard to get loud. Tuning really isn't hurting that much.

You can be tuned wrong and still peak at car's peak.

he's refering to my non-walled ram, my tuning/port area is restricted---if I tune any higher I run into even more mechanical issues with the woofers. Granted if I'd stop burping at 18hz I wouldn't have that problem

**my port area/length is at it's max... can't get any bigger with my desired tuning... I will be rebuilding with an increase in box size as well as a slight increase in port area... and some bracing this time

[bassahaulic 155]

I'm not whining at all lol

I am happy with the wall very much so, It does what it was built to do. Pound down low and it does.

And when I had the 1000's, they were strapped so no gain matching. I have heard, idk how accurate though, that average rise is 3x original load. So if both 1000's were at 1, they rose to 3 each. And since the 2000 is at .5ohm, it would only rise to 1.5. But like I said, idk how accurate that is.

[rushnrun 14]

Have you done anymore work to this????

I'm getting ready to head outside and gut my truck for the rebuild

[iamamp3pimp 34]

1st of all.. this enclosure was built to go behind the back seat of a trail blazer. we gave it to drew to help him out . its no way designed to show true potiental of a " wall" design.. the woofers are side by side..with a low tuned port on top of them. regardless what anyone says.. THIS set up with MT will need more power to come to life.. saying this car or that set up with less power did that score means nothing .. im very sure better numbers could be had with a different style set up and the same power.. but with power a wall will smash it .. and honestly guys.. Drew doesnt exactly know what hes doing when he tests.. sorry drew.. lol. so who knows where this thing realy peaks and what its doing . IF is honestly is peaking at 33hz like hes saying then im going to say this box has an impedance issue.. it was a test for the MT in the 1st place to see how it liked this large of a box.. maybe they arent enjoying playing in 7cubes? i have yet to read one responce with a recamended box for the MTs to get these numbers you all claim he should have.. instead just telling him what he has wrong .. this box pounds music and thats its intent.. very very seldom do you get both with out what? what is that?? POWER......

numbers are low for that truck--either way...

I'm comparing apples to apples... we have the exact same truck, i have 2-15's and 1760 clamped watts, he has 2-18's and ?? watts, you should test the power output on the amps to see what he's getting/what impedence rise your dealing with, something is wrong somewhere... with 2x the power you will see a gain if the electrical can handle it..*my box is tuned to 24hz so don't go there either

**I mean that in good humor

How is your wall setup? subs and port?? your doing a 150 legal ??

i said i havent messed with anything to check impedance rise and by why HE has found im guessing a high impedance rise ..and the woofers might be hating that box... his MT are built to handle a mojo 4K each.. what woofers are you using? i think the way the woofers are layed out is really effecting the numbers.. im sure a non walled set up would make a little better scores with his power.. they work with the vehicle a bit better than a wall . .

thats how the subs are laid out in my car, and that thing pounds....

different car i know, but i had MT's in there before on 2k and it was painful.

[AlanHall 6]

if it matters at all ive said to drew many ties before he needs to grab a 3rd 18 and lets do a half wall and he will be doing mid 50s with ease. and shizz . what you said about the none walls loading and being louder then being short on cone area and a wall is pretty much what i said .. i just didnt put it into words correctly. lol

[bassahaulic 155]

if it matters at all ive said to drew many ties before he needs to grab a 3rd 18 and lets do a half wall and he will be doing mid 50s with ease. and shizz . what you said about the none walls loading and being louder then being short on cone area and a wall is pretty much what i said .. i just didnt put it into words correctly. lol

As soon as I can afford it we can start building the truck better. But I got fired from my job while I had the Flu :-/

[coreycgarner 1]

Are you using a term-lab playing a sweep to find your peak frequency? Where are you metering from?