General Questions

[Hell-Razor 0]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to say thank you before I start all this out. I have been looking for a good subwoofer now for a few weeks and came to Fi's website and started looking at posts / subs. These seem to be one of the top subs out there for the price. Anyway, just a quick reason for why I am here. My sister died in a car accident about two and a half weeks ago (May 15th) and in her name I would like to build a competition / everyday car. Now I am not saying this for pity or anything like it. I am just trying to start off the reason why I am here. She loved car audio, I was not into it that much. But I would like to get into it.

Simply put, I know almost nothing about subwoofers and car audio but I hope this is one of the places to learn. On that note, can somebody post a youtube video that may explain things (like ohms for example or installation tips/tricks). There are a lot of videos out there but most of them may be junk.

Anyway I am here to (eventually) get two 18" BTL's and make them sound the best I can with somewhat of a money budget. I will first order one 18" and get the cars electrical system and all that beefed up. I have been reading up and one main thing I dont understand are the ohms option. Dual 1 or Dual 2 ohms. Well what is better? I know this has to do with power and friction from the amplifier (I think, could be way off). A quick explination and amybe a wiki or website to help would be awesome (I am also looking, not just relying on you guys).

My second question is the cooling option. How hot will the subs get (normally) without this option? How about with? I am planning on getting a good high quality amplifier (im hoping for a 5-8k watt amp). What kind of temperatures can they handle without overheating? Is cooling worth it?

Another questoins is about the HiXmCoil. I cant even guess. Google pulls up nothing and my audio friends dont know either...

Ive been reading the forums on the SPL or Daily option and read that "If youre going to listen to music at all with the subs, get daily". Well why? Is there an easy explination to that? Like why would I want SPL over Daily or likewise?

And my last two questions are about the Induct Heat Ring and the Universal option. Universal may be for Universal connections? I have no idea once again.

The one thing I do know about is building a good quality box. My Uncle is a very well known architect and if we cant build it together then we will find out how either with books or google or just coming back here with ideas. There is one thing though about ported or non ported (sorry, this should be the last question). I know non ported will be a little more boomy and not have as a low as a non-ported but will hit harder. The non ported box wont hit as hard but will have a more crisp and lively sound to it. What do you guys recommend? I have a single MTX 10" 8500 in my car right now (going to sell to help pay for these) with a ported and I think that thing hits hard, but compaired to these its probably a spitball.

Thanks in advanced to all of those who will help in the future.

-Justin

I forgot to add I would also like to try and install all this myself. I have read up on a few instructions and looked at some videos and it seems pretty easy and straight forward. Any tips / tricks would be more than welcome. I did think of a few more questions but they are not as important.

1) What would you guys recommend for in-car speakers (doors and behind the back seat). I know these subs will put out a hell of a boom I would like something that will be able to keep up with them

2) What amp would you recommend? I may not get the second 18" but I would like the option to

3) Alternator, again what would you recommend? Ill post the car I am gonig to use when I get home from work.

4) Batteries. I know I am going to need more but what kind is the best and how many? I am thinking two if I get a good alternator or maybe even three.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[Hell-Razor 0]

Well I guess my questions weren't too general. But I have found some information.

The car is a 2002 Volkswagen Passat. HUGE trunk space, probably the most I have seen in a car. I looked under the hood as well, there seems to be more than enough room for a second alternator.

1) I have figured out that I should get the cooling option on the BTL 18" because its recommended.

2) The HiXmCoil...again I don't understand it but its recommended in the 15" and 18" versions so what the hell, I am getting it.

3) Daily option. Enough said

4) The Universal option seems to be in case you want to change the ohms around. Not sure why I would want to do this but I may want to eventually, so Ill take that option.

5) Ive picked the SAZ-2000D amplifier. Somebody else was asking for what amp with the BTL 18" and juslivin said that would be a good amp for under 500$ (about my limit for an amplifier as well). The only question is is would it be enough to power two of them? I don't want to under power the subs at all.

6) I am pretty sure I found the deck I want in a Crutchfield magazine. Ill get the magazine again and post it later.

Those are just the questions I had that I have found. I am still looking but suggestions are still welcome (and needed). I still don't understand the Dual 1 or Dual 2 ohm option.

[shizzzon 461]

if u want general knowledge, go to www.bcae1.com and www.the12volt.com

For box building, i'm not for sure where to go specifically but i'm sure one of those sites i listed or doin some more searches will help find the answer.

Once u get the info for buildin a box and understanding bcae1.com, then come back here and ask some questions as u will have gained more knowledge then.

[Juslivin 1]

the12volt.com has almost everything you need to know about wiring and car audio.

[BKOLFO4 29]

HiXmCoil is High Xmax Coil. The winding on the coil is longer giving the sub more linear excursion.

Dual 1 vs Dual 2 is the voice coil impedance (resistance).

You need to match the impedance to the amp you will buy.

If you are going to use a single amp like the 2000D, you want the final impedance to be 1 ohm.

To get this, you buy subs with dual 1 ohm voice coils. This will give you a total of (4) 1 ohm voice coils.

When you wire resistors in series, you add the resistance, R + R + ... + R = R (total).

When you wire them in parallel, they add as 1/R + 1/R + ... + 1/R = 1/R (total).

When you wire the subs, you will wire the voice coils on each sub in series (so now each sub is 2 ohms), and then wire the 2 subs in parallel to the amp (bringing the load back down to 1 ohm). This will give you the most output from the amplifier.

2000 watts is enough, but will not come close to giving them their full potential. With that much power, you could use BL's or even AA Havocs and more than likely not notice a big difference.

Brian

[Hell-Razor 0]

2000 watts is enough, but will not come close to giving them their full potential. With that much power, you could use BL's or even AA Havocs and more than likely not notice a big difference.

Brian

Alright. I kind of really want BTL's though. From what I have heard about them and everything they are the best bang out there. What amplifier would you recommend then? My budget can be expanded but I would not want to spend huge ammounts on it. I guess the amp is the most important part of the entire process so I cant be stingy on it.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[BKOLFO4 29]

Sundown just announced a second preorder on the 3500D. . .

Or do a pair of AQ2200D's. If you use 2 amps, you will need dual 2 ohm subs. Wire the coils in parallel on each sub and get 1 ohm per amp.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Or do a pair of AQ2200D's. If you use 2 amps, you will need dual 2 ohm subs. Wire the coils in parallel on each sub and get 1 ohm per amp.

Will one AQ2200D be enough to power one BTL 18"? I have been searching but I cannot find specs or even a website on the AQ2200D amplifer. Just forums saying that this is the best amplifier to get for the money...

[EDIT] I found their website. 400$ for an amp isnt bad. But I cannot find the specs for them. STill wondering if one amp will be enough to power one sub (without underpowering)[/EDIT]

http://www.audioque.com/aq/order.htm

Alright sorry once again I found the information but I am not sure about this...

1 ohm power 2200 x 1

1 ohm Power @ 16V 2500 x 1

http://www.audioque.com/aq/AQamps2200D.htm

I dont understand why I would need 2 ohm when it says 1 ohm power is 2500 x1. The 18" BTL's have an RMS of 2k watts...

But BKOLFO4 said I would need 2 ohm power so then...

2 ohm Linked Power @ 14.4V @ 1% THD 4400 x 1

That is linked though...I am not sure on this. Ill read up on the 12v website when I get home to see if it helps any.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright I think I figured it out after reading bcae1.com. I would need two of those amplifers because the sub is expecting 2k watts at 2 ohms. At 1 ohm the sub would be getting 4k watts. Sense the amp can do 2 ohm and put out 4400 I think it would turn into 8800 for single ohm (bridged). The sub(s) would then be wanting 8k watts and I would be giving them 8800.

Am I completly off here or is my mind kind of grasping the correct concept?

Edited June 4, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[pogothemonk3y 1]

I don't know much about running strapped amps at 1 ohm, however I think you'd be happy with the amps strapped and running 2 BTLs D2 for 2 Ohm. The BTLs are rated for 2000 but there's people that run way more than this in the right box. Once again, I think you'd be happy with 2200 going to each sub.

Edited June 4, 2009 by PogoTheMonk3y

[iputon326 9]

the aq2200d puts out 2200 watts at 1 ohm.

if your going to buy 2 btl's then put 1 amp to each sub.

get the dual 2 ohm sub.

that way you can wire the each sub to 1 ohm to match the amps.

you will be getting 2200 watts to each sub.

on the12volt.com you can go to subwoofer wiring and that will show you what i mean.

choose 1 sub and the impedance as dual 2 ohm sub.

that will show you how to wire each sub to 1 ohm.

if i were you i would start off with 1 btl and 1 good amp.

the btls can handle A LOT of power.

so i say go with a btl and a sundown audio saz 3500d.

[iputon326 9]

Alright I think I figured it out after reading bcae1.com. I would need two of those amplifers because the sub is expecting 2k watts at 2 ohms. At 1 ohm the sub would be getting 4k watts. Sense the amp can do 2 ohm and put out 4400 I think it would turn into 8800 for single ohm (bridged). The sub(s) would then be wanting 8k watts and I would be giving them 8800.

Am I completly off here or is my mind kind of grasping the correct concept?

also when it says the amp can do 4400 watts at 2 ohms that just means the amps strapped together.

each amp is 1 ohm stable which means they put out 2200 watts at 1 ohm.

when you put two of the amps together it makes it 4400 watts together.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Welcome ....

Sorry to hear about the loss of your sister.

[BKOLFO4 29]

Maybe you did not catch each sub has two voice coils. If you get the dual 2 ohm model, you wire the coils in parallel to the amp which make a 1 ohm load.

2200 watts per BTL at 1 ohm is great!

Brian

[Hell-Razor 0]

Thanks a lot for all of your guys help. Looks like I didn't understand everything. Back to more reading I go. It sounds to me like I would need 2 aq2200d for 1 sub. I am pretty sure if I look into it there may be a way to wire one amp from 2 to 1 ohms but that is just a guess. My main goal is to get one BTL sometime this summer, get it put away in a nice ported box, upgrade my alternator and battery, get a good cd deck and get it bumping.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Hell-Razor

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright I just measured the trunk. It is 40in x 40in x 20in. I am looking at box designs in about 5 minutes to see if I can put a box for two BTL's in. If I cannot then I am just going to get a single and put as much power as I can to it without blowing it (also will save me like 500$ ish)

[Hell-Razor 0]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your sister.

Thanks. The only reason why I said it was to try and make it clear that I was going to need a lot of help. Not for pity or to push people over the top. I guess now that it was not needed and I feel guilty for posting it.

[iputon326 9]

i think youll be more than happy with one btl

the btls need big boxes and its probably gona be hard to fit 2 in ur trunk.

if i were you id start with one btl and get the aq2200d.

if you eventually want more, upgrade your amp.

youll be suprised of how loud 1 will get.

[Hell-Razor 0]

i think youll be more than happy with one btl

the btls need big boxes and its probably gona be hard to fit 2 in ur trunk.

if i were you id start with one btl and get the aq2200d.

if you eventually want more, upgrade your amp.

youll be suprised of how loud 1 will get.

Ok. I was actually driving home and decided to do just one for now. Thanks for the input. I should be ordering here pretty soon.

Sense I am just getting one, would you guys still recommend upgrading the alternator and getting two batteries? I have been asking around trying to find somebody to help me out installing all of this and getting advice. The local shops I have found that are not mainstream are looking to charge me anywhere from 400 to 700$ which I think is a complete ripoff. I know I am going to want an equalizer wired into the car because otherwise I may run into problems with blowing speakers (so I am told). My friend said he may be able to get a really nice one for super cheap through his work.

Also I was told that a capacitor may be enough to hold a good charge to what the single BTL will require (and therefor eliminating the need for a super high quality alternator or a second battery.)

Again I know I don't know much about this stuff. I learn by hands on and fiddling with thing, not by going to websites and reading. Thanks for all of your guys patients and I hope I haven't pissed anybody off with my noob questions.

[Hell-Razor 0]

Alright I figured out that the stock alternator puts out 90 amps. Now If I get two high end batteries daisy chained I somehow don't think it will still be enough to keep up with the BTL....ug.

[Duran 387]

No capacitor. At all. You can also do the install yourself! We would be glad to help you

Alright I figured out that the stock alternator puts out 90 amps. Now If I get two high end batteries daisy chained I somehow don't think it will still be enough to keep up with the BTL....ug.

Unless you dive around at full volume and a really big amp you will be fine. I have 3,500 watts on a 90 amp alternator and 2 group 31 batteries and I do just fine

[Hell-Razor 0]

oh man...31 batteries? I would live to see your build (in person). So what about batteries for me? Should I get two and just stick with the stock alt?

[Duran 387]

oh man...31 batteries? I would live to see your build (in person). So what about batteries for me? Should I get two and just stick with the stock alt?

No, no, no, I have two group 31 batteries. That's the size.

[iputon326 9]

i think two batteries would be good.

do u no wat the big 3 is?

[Hell-Razor 0]

do u no wat the big 3 is?

No idea what the "big three" is.

I was talked down to a BL for my type of tunes. The BL's are not nearly as power hungry (I hope they hit as hard though) so I may not need another alternator. But I would assume I need a second battery...