Building a Subwoofer

[///M5 2,833]

You can't get the best out of BOTH music and movies.

That depends on the budget, the application and the environment. The original request on another forum was for music, games and movies in a 13' x 13' room and a budget of $400. The Dayton RSS390HF-4 in 7 cu.ft. tuned to 18 hz with a Bash 300 amp would give him 112 db at 20 hz with room gain for games and movies. Plugging the ports would create a sealed sub with a Qtc of .664 for a tighter sounding bass for music. The best of both worlds within the budget stated.

I am aware, but his idea of music is output and he will be gaining none by going that route so it won't fit his "best". I really doubt that tighter sounding is his concern.

[my_first_account 0]

You can't get the best out of BOTH music and movies.

That depends on the budget, the application and the environment. The original request on another forum was for music, games and movies in a 13' x 13' room and a budget of $400. The Dayton RSS390HF-4 in 7 cu.ft. tuned to 18 hz with a Bash 300 amp would give him 112 db at 20 hz with room gain for games and movies. Plugging the ports would create a sealed sub with a Qtc of .664 for a tighter sounding bass for music. The best of both worlds within the budget stated.

I am aware, but his idea of music is output and he will be gaining none by going that route so it won't fit his "best". I really doubt that tighter sounding is his concern.

I actually would like tighter sounding bass over just a lot of extreme rumble while listening to songs, or whatever you want to call it. Ecept for in Down 4 T h a Krown

Mike, would I need a highpass filter or anything for the Dayton HF in the 7 cu.ft enclusure?

Thanks

Edited May 5, 2009 by my_first_account

[Mike P. 0]

The Bash 300 has a HPF at 17.7 hz.

[my_first_account 0]

Ok.

If I got the Shiva-X and the Bash 500w amp, would I still need to change the HPF filter if it was in a 2.5 cu.ft sealed enclosure?

Thanks

[ABXX49 20]

Ok.

If I got the Shiva-X and the Bash 500w amp, would I still need to change the HPF filter if it was in a 2.5 cu.ft sealed enclosure?

Thanks

The nice thing about a sealed enclosure is that you don't have to worry about playing too low. A sealed box will have a 12db/octave roll off as opposed to a 24db/octave for the ported enclosure. You have to realize too that if you go sealed you WILL lose output. After having both, I prefer a ported box tuned low, as opposed to a sealed.

*That is my personal opinion and I know others will disagree.*

[my_first_account 0]

Ok.

If I got the Shiva-X and the Bash 500w amp, would I still need to change the HPF filter if it was in a 2.5 cu.ft sealed enclosure?

Thanks

The nice thing about a sealed enclosure is that you don't have to worry about playing too low. A sealed box will have a 12db/octave roll off as opposed to a 24db/octave for the ported enclosure. You have to realize too that if you go sealed you WILL lose output. After having both, I prefer a ported box tuned low, as opposed to a sealed.

*That is my personal opinion and I know others will disagree.*

True. What size box and ported to what frequency should I model? What size port length? Or should I just experiment??

Thanks for the help

[dem beats 1,223]

You're getting into an area where I think some of the other people here could help you. I don't understand modeling so well.

I personaly have a boner for the shiva/bash combo myself, tuned nice and low. Middle teens I would expect to do well. As for the question about game sound efects... Hot damn. I wouldn't say that most games try to get as low as some really cool movie sequences(mostly sci fi movies), but, in games you will have a much much much much higher repetition of the times it does dig quite low.

ie. If your playing halo or something of that nature, it's like a 6 hour action scene. If your watching die hard there is all this talking in the way of more stuff blowing up. Some games are incredible with the low end noise, definately pisses the wife off if she's trying to sleep. Movies do a good job of that too as our bedroom is right below my HT.

[my_first_account 0]

You're getting into an area where I think some of the other people here could help you. I don't understand modeling so well.

I personaly have a boner for the shiva/bash combo myself, tuned nice and low. Middle teens I would expect to do well. As for the question about game sound efects... Hot damn. I wouldn't say that most games try to get as low as some really cool movie sequences(mostly sci fi movies), but, in games you will have a much much much much higher repetition of the times it does dig quite low.

ie. If your playing halo or something of that nature, it's like a 6 hour action scene. If your watching die hard there is all this talking in the way of more stuff blowing up. Some games are incredible with the low end noise, definately pisses the wife off if she's trying to sleep. Movies do a good job of that too as our bedroom is right below my HT.

I play a lot of Call Of Duty.

My parents have gotten quite mad about them being able to hear bass halfway across the house while they were trying to sleep. Lol

What is the difference between second, first, and third order highpasses?

Thanks

[my_first_account 0]

For me, it appears that a sealed enclosure would be the best SPL wise for movies:

The ported is better for higher fc from 14hz to aorund 60hz, but it is limited because of the HPF I had to apply to keep it within it's XMax limits. The HPF is set a second order butterworth set at 16.40 hz. It is right below it's xmax abilities. The sealed is also right below the xmax line, but didn't need a HPF. I think I will go for the ported one at 5.3 cu.ft, and just run the HPF. I would like it to be better for music over movies, but without it thrashing the sub during movies...

Any suggestions??

Thanks

[KU40 173]

You're getting into an area where I think some of the other people here could help you. I don't understand modeling so well.

I personaly have a boner for the shiva/bash combo myself, tuned nice and low. Middle teens I would expect to do well. As for the question about game sound efects... Hot damn. I wouldn't say that most games try to get as low as some really cool movie sequences(mostly sci fi movies), but, in games you will have a much much much much higher repetition of the times it does dig quite low.

ie. If your playing halo or something of that nature, it's like a 6 hour action scene. If your watching die hard there is all this talking in the way of more stuff blowing up. Some games are incredible with the low end noise, definately pisses the wife off if she's trying to sleep. Movies do a good job of that too as our bedroom is right below my HT.

I play a lot of Call Of Duty.

My parents have gotten quite mad about them being able to hear bass halfway across the house while they were trying to sleep. Lol

What is the difference between second, first, and third order highpasses?

Thanks

Different circuitry. But for the basics, a first order is -6db, second order is -12db, third order is -18db, etc.

[my_first_account 0]

You're getting into an area where I think some of the other people here could help you. I don't understand modeling so well.

I personaly have a boner for the shiva/bash combo myself, tuned nice and low. Middle teens I would expect to do well. As for the question about game sound efects... Hot damn. I wouldn't say that most games try to get as low as some really cool movie sequences(mostly sci fi movies), but, in games you will have a much much much much higher repetition of the times it does dig quite low.

ie. If your playing halo or something of that nature, it's like a 6 hour action scene. If your watching die hard there is all this talking in the way of more stuff blowing up. Some games are incredible with the low end noise, definately pisses the wife off if she's trying to sleep. Movies do a good job of that too as our bedroom is right below my HT.

I play a lot of Call Of Duty.

My parents have gotten quite mad about them being able to hear bass halfway across the house while they were trying to sleep. Lol

What is the difference between second, first, and third order highpasses?

Thanks

Different circuitry. But for the basics, a first order is -6db, second order is -12db, third order is -18db, etc.

Ok, that clears stuff up. Thanks for that.

Thanks

[Solid_State13 1]

You probably won't have to worry too much about running out of Xmax at 16Hz, there is almost no content that low and the amp is only rated at that power down to 22Hz, so it will probably drop off below that. If you have the room, go with that big enclosure tuned there or maybe a little higher. If you just listen to the sub you will probably be able to tell if its bottoming out, then you can just turn it down

[dem beats 1,223]

Plenty of content down to 16 and well below.

Check out Black hawk down, or Cloverfeild.

If the amp does cut off that high though you will probably be right as rain.

[my_first_account 0]

You probably won't have to worry too much about running out of Xmax at 16Hz, there is almost no content that low and the amp is only rated at that power down to 22Hz, so it will probably drop off below that. If you have the room, go with that big enclosure tuned there or maybe a little higher. If you just listen to the sub you will probably be able to tell if its bottoming out, then you can just turn it down

Ok, Would a 6.25 cu.ft ported enclousure be good for a room 13x13? Or, does 5.50 cu.ft ported look better? I'm just trying to find what would be the best compromise between music, games, and movies.

What I was thinking is use a pretty much permanent large diameter, short port for music, and then put a longer, smaller diameter port inside of the bigger one for movies, and find a way to seal it, and still be able to remove the "movie" port, if needed.

Do you think that this would work, or be a good idea?

Thanks

Plenty of content down to 16 and well below.

Check out Black hawk down, or Cloverfeild.

If the amp does cut off that high though you will probably be right as rain.

I will have to check out those movies...when I get the new driver...it just depresses me when I watch movies with my current sub lol. I feel like there is more bass coming out of my cheap front speakers than out of my sub.

What do you mean by the bold part in your post??

Thanks

[my_first_account 0]

I'm just trying to find what would be the best compromise between music, games, and movies. This is all using the Shiva and the O Audio 500w amp...in a ported box...just an idea.

What I was thinking is use a pretty much permanent large diameter, short port for music, and then put a longer, smaller diameter port inside of the bigger one for movies, and find a way to seal it, and still be able to remove the "movie" port, if needed.

Do you think that this would work, or be a good idea?

For instance,

I would take a 5 inch diameter PVC tube, and seal it to the box.

Then, to change the port tuning, I would take a 4 inch diameter port and use a series of progressively thicker o-rings that had slots cut out for them on the 4 inch port pipe, and make it so the o-rings were snug enough to keep the air from flowing around them and to seal it to the bigger pipe, but not tight enough so it is very hard to get the new port in or out.

Does that look like it would work?

Thanks

Edited May 7, 2009 by my_first_account

[slim2fattycake 85]

Don't forget about port noise. Try to keep the rear air velocity under 22 m/s. I am going to go out and say that you will be disappointed in one of the areas you are looking for. Either it be movies/games or music, you will only like one or the other with this budget build. I say build the sub for more of music use (about 20-30hz) and then get some bass shakers for the movies/games. You should be set with that. This will give you more of the "SPL" you want for music and give you the "in movies/games" experience. I don't know if this will be in the $400 budget but you will be more happy with the set-up... or at least I would.

[ABXX49 20]

I'm at 5.5 cu ft tuned to 25Hz. I find that it works great for both music and movies. It seems to be a happy medium. I do lack some of the output down REAL low and some of the musical bass. It's a sacrifice I made, but I'm very happy.

[my_first_account 0]

I'm at 5.5 cu ft tuned to 25Hz. I find that it works great for both music and movies. It seems to be a happy medium. I do lack some of the output down REAL low and some of the musical bass. It's a sacrifice I made, but I'm very happy.

With what driver? The Shiva?

Thanks for the help.

[ABXX49 20]

I'm at 5.5 cu ft tuned to 25Hz. I find that it works great for both music and movies. It seems to be a happy medium. I do lack some of the output down REAL low and some of the musical bass. It's a sacrifice I made, but I'm very happy.

With what driver? The Shiva?

Thanks for the help.

The Mag.

[my_first_account 0]

I'm at 5.5 cu ft tuned to 25Hz. I find that it works great for both music and movies. It seems to be a happy medium. I do lack some of the output down REAL low and some of the musical bass. It's a sacrifice I made, but I'm very happy.

With what driver? The Shiva?

Thanks for the help.

The Mag.

Oh, Ok.

I have decided on what I am going to do

I'm getting the Shiva-X as soon as I get the money, then I am going to hold off on the amp. I will just be running it off of my Yamaha amp until Christmas, then I can pretty much get either the Dayton HPSA1000-R or the Crown XLS 402 sub amps. Is there a better amp for my applications around the same price range?

Thanks for all of the help. It's greatly appreciated...

[my_first_account 0]

Are there any videos of the Shiva-X ?

Thanks for the help

Edited May 10, 2009 by my_first_account

[my_first_account 0]

I'm at 5.5 cu ft tuned to 25Hz. I find that it works great for both music and movies. It seems to be a happy medium. I do lack some of the output down REAL low and some of the musical bass. It's a sacrifice I made, but I'm very happy.

With what driver? The Shiva?

Thanks for the help.

The Mag.

Oh, Ok.

I have decided on what I am going to do

I'm getting the Shiva-X as soon as I get the money, then I am going to hold off on the amp. I will just be running it off of my Yamaha amp until Christmas, then I can pretty much get either the Dayton HPSA1000-R or the Crown XLS 402 sub amps. Is there a better amp for my applications around the same price range?

Thanks for all of the help. It's greatly appreciated...

I quoted myself...

Anyways, I need to change a few things that I said in my quote.

I'm getting the Shiva-X, and still holding off on the new amp until Christmas. It will still be ran off of my Yamaha 100w amp (very sadly).

I will be getting the Behringer EP2500, and the Reckhorn B-1 for a eq and crossover by buying them after Christmas.

And, it the sub will be housed in a 6.35 cu.ft box, ported to 22hz

Thanks, and I am open to any suggestions for amp, etc...

Edited May 10, 2009 by my_first_account

[dem beats 1,223]

Are there any videos of the Shiva-X ?

Thanks for the help

why would you want a video.

[dem beats 1,223]

I'm at 5.5 cu ft tuned to 25Hz. I find that it works great for both music and movies. It seems to be a happy medium. I do lack some of the output down REAL low and some of the musical bass. It's a sacrifice I made, but I'm very happy.

With what driver? The Shiva?

Thanks for the help.

The Mag.

Oh, Ok.

I have decided on what I am going to do

I'm getting the Shiva-X as soon as I get the money, then I am going to hold off on the amp. I will just be running it off of my Yamaha amp until Christmas, then I can pretty much get either the Dayton HPSA1000-R or the Crown XLS 402 sub amps. Is there a better amp for my applications around the same price range?

Thanks for all of the help. It's greatly appreciated...

I quoted myself...

Anyways, I need to change a few things that I said in my quote.

I'm getting the Shiva-X, and still holding off on the new amp until Christmas. It will still be ran off of my Yamaha 100w amp (very sadly).

I will be getting the Behringer EP2500, and the Reckhorn B-1 for a eq and crossover by buying them after Christmas.

And, it the sub will be housed in a 6.35 cu.ft box, ported to 22hz

Thanks, and I am open to any suggestions for amp, etc...

I would honestly tune lower. The FS of that driver is 19.6. I'm not sure about your goals but if you want to tune that high on a driver with a lower FS and then give it so much power I would run it sealed. Better for music and it will handle more power. You could rely on processor EQ then to handle the "tuning".

I think you are on the right track going with a pro audio amp though.

[my_first_account 0]

Are there any videos of the Shiva-X ?

Thanks for the help

why would you want a video.

Just to see what it looks like plaing a song.

Thanks