Help me pick drivers for a 3 way front stage

[ABXX49 20]

Also, as I just sold my Icon, I'm willing to bump up the budget to $400.

why not throw in a dcon.. it is geared mostly torward sq.. ?? just a thought

My first reason for going sub less is trunk space. Secondly, with 8" midbasses in each door, do you really need a sub? Third: I'd rather put more money into my front stage and really have something that will cause auditory eargasms.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

How do you know your crossover points without having anything installed? Is that just where you plan on starting at before you tweak and tune?

yes, I based it off the Kit LCRs from Adire Audio, figured that would be the best place to start, though thats home theater... but mostly same drivers

Thats a lot of why Id ecided to go with something fully adjustable rather than 2 AC 6XS's.... so i can tweak it

How do you know your crossover points without having anything installed? Is that just where you plan on starting at before you tweak and tune?

He doesn't and there are all sorts of things wrong with what he is proposing to do. I don't like the slopes, the frequencies, the lack of underlap, and they don't fit well with the driver choice. Somewhere along the line he has been misinformed by someone on how this works.

shows what you know

[ABXX49 20]

How do you know your crossover points without having anything installed? Is that just where you plan on starting at before you tweak and tune?

yes, I based it off the Kit LCRs from Adire Audio, figured that would be the best place to start, though thats home theater... but mostly same drivers

Thats a lot of why Id ecided to go with something fully adjustable rather than 2 AC 6XS's.... so i can tweak it

I suppose it's a starting point. Just remember how terrible the automobile is for a stereo. The acoustics are terrible in comparison to a HT.

[///M5 2,833]

How do you know your crossover points without having anything installed? Is that just where you plan on starting at before you tweak and tune?

He doesn't and there are all sorts of things wrong with what he is proposing to do. I don't like the slopes, the frequencies, the lack of underlap, and they don't fit well with the driver choice. Somewhere along the line he has been misinformed by someone on how this works.

shows what you know

In home baffle crossover wouldn't look anything at all like in car and assuming it would be similar is amusing.

[ABXX49 20]

*crickets*

[kryptonitewhite 1]

How do you know your crossover points without having anything installed? Is that just where you plan on starting at before you tweak and tune?

yes, I based it off the Kit LCRs from Adire Audio, figured that would be the best place to start, though thats home theater... but mostly same drivers

Thats a lot of why Id ecided to go with something fully adjustable rather than 2 AC 6XS's.... so i can tweak it

I suppose it's a starting point. Just remember how terrible the automobile is for a stereo. The acoustics are terrible in comparison to a HT.

well, I'm not going for SQ comp... I just choose drivers that are SQ oriented, use more than I need, with much more power than needed... so I can drive it to the volume I want, with the drivers being capeable of more output than I need so that they aren't pushed to their limits, and the amps never clip and never strain... abundance (sp?) of power, and drivers... in large enclosures for a flat responce.

Pretty much what I just posted in the other thread, I want to be loud and still be clear and distortion free. Imagining, staging... I was attempting that for the 1st (and probably last) time with this vehicle:

now i'll probably just drop these pretty good drivers in the stock factory locations with the nice amps with more power than I need and set them low so theyre clean and stress free all day long and call it good.... nothing like what youre goin for

[lithium 358]

damn thats BA!!! in a ghetto sorta way...

[kryptonitewhite 1]

How do you know your crossover points without having anything installed? Is that just where you plan on starting at before you tweak and tune?

He doesn't and there are all sorts of things wrong with what he is proposing to do. I don't like the slopes, the frequencies, the lack of underlap, and they don't fit well with the driver choice. Somewhere along the line he has been misinformed by someone on how this works.

shows what you know

In home baffle crossover wouldn't look anything at all like in car and assuming it would be similar is amusing.

alright, I took it defensively the first time... sorry

I'm not going for SQ, I am just using good drivers good amps and more than I need to keep things linear. 4 Extremis 6.4's where 2 would be plenty to keep driver excursion low, rather than worrying about 2 drivers playing the same thing not on the same axis causing..... ya

Ill jus shut up

damn thats BA!!! in a ghetto sorta way...

you hit it on the head....

1st off, thats very beginning pics... not even close to having the skeliton done.

2nd, even after all that was completed, the enclosure became a mould... I was going to sand the bondo down smooth, apply a release agent, and resin it.... pull the fiberglass box off... had 5 gallons spectrum sludge, and 5 gallons firewall to go yet too

3rd it was a $200 car, $3500 in equipment, and $2000 in mechanical/electrical upgrades, MDF, bondo, foam, etc

It never came close to finish, due to engine problems later. I was expecting a decent noob SQ score... only competing to learn what to do, cuz I have no idea. I aimed and staged the front stage the best I could from internet research.

I also hopped with the 2 AA Avalanches in 6 cubes each at 20Hz would do decent with the false floor, doors, roof, dash... all MDF, coated with bondo, then coated with deadener... and filled on the inside with foam... ridgid, vibration free, air tight.

I took out the whole AC/heating system so that only 1 hole to the outside for air, pluggable by an MDF board for SPL burps. Took up as much cabin area as possible and reinforced.

My 1st and only "dedicated" build.

EDIT: DIDN'T MEAN 2 HIJACK, ENUFF ABOUT THAT... still watchin your build, just remenicing of dreams long lost LOL

Edited April 6, 2009 by johnecon2001

[///M5 2,833]

Kelvin, I just wanted to be sure to clarify as there is a lot of misinformation on the interwebz. Hopefully our discussion is helpful for others in the same situation.

Ryan, as for some drivers. Here is a quick list. To narrow this down we should talk about aiming, processing and power. I know you have the 880 which will work well for this, but the amp will need some capabilities as well to take care of the "3rd" driver. Many other options as well, but these are all can't misses although that doesn't mean that they will all play nice with each other. I left off the Scan 12m even though it would be my personal pick as the buy in price is too high. A pair used typically go from $300-400 which would leave you with not much for the rest of the stage. If you were to find a pair for $300 though we could do the midbass and tweets with the remaining.

Take a peak at some of the drawings of the drivers and hang out in your kicks and see how far off axis they will be. Some of these drivers are significantly better off axis than others. For example in the tweets, the XT19's are sweet but the farther off axis you go the less desirable they are if this was truly the case the LPG's are stellar off axis performers but I wouldn't run them on axis in my car. No worries on aiming for the midbass. I gave you some hefty options since you are not going to be running any sub. If you were we could lighten these a bit on the low end and save your doors some of the murder that you are going to apply to them, but personally I like the route you are going

Tweet:

Seas Neo $32

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=633

LPG 25nfa $43

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php...acturers_id=138

Vifa XT 19 $41

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1179

Morel MDT 29 $49

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=567

Peerless HDS Tweeter $78

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1744

Midrange:

Peerless 3

[Adrian_D 520]

Another good midrange (imo) is the Vifa TG9FD10-08

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8404

I have heard that in conjunction with the LPG (both on axis) and the combo sounded very nice.

[///M5 2,833]

Another good midrange (imo) is the Vifa TG9FD10-08

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=8404

I have heard that in conjunction with the LPG (both on axis) and the combo sounded very nice.

Crap, that was on my list when I starting making it but in the deleting of other options I whacked it by accident. Definitely a choice I'd recommend as well. It does a lot of things really well.

[ABXX49 20]

Okay, I have a question about the axis. Perfectly on axis, the driver would be facing me, correct? I'm new to aiming, entirely. What are my goals as far as positioning and aiming?

[ABXX49 20]

I wish Madisound had a review section...

[///M5 2,833]

Okay, I have a question about the axis. Perfectly on axis, the driver would be facing me, correct? I'm new to aiming, entirely. What are my goals as far as positioning and aiming?

Yes, 30degrees off axis the direction the driver would be 30degrees away from pointing straight at you. Obviously in your kicks these will be off axis, but it depends on how much you want to intrude on your foot space.

[ABXX49 20]

Okay, I have a question about the axis. Perfectly on axis, the driver would be facing me, correct? I'm new to aiming, entirely. What are my goals as far as positioning and aiming?

Yes, 30degrees off axis the direction the driver would be 30degrees away from pointing straight at you. Obviously in your kicks these will be off axis, but it depends on how much you want to intrude on your foot space.

So is my goal to get these as close to on axis as possible?

[///M5 2,833]

Okay, I have a question about the axis. Perfectly on axis, the driver would be facing me, correct? I'm new to aiming, entirely. What are my goals as far as positioning and aiming?

Yes, 30degrees off axis the direction the driver would be 30degrees away from pointing straight at you. Obviously in your kicks these will be off axis, but it depends on how much you want to intrude on your foot space.

So is my goal to get these as close to on axis as possible?

That would be my goal in the kicks, although it usually means smaller drivers and then you have the tradeoff again. Some people just say screw it and run things really off axis, if that is going to be how it is in your install you should at least realize it before picking the drivers

What do you think you could pull off?

[Old_Skool_Noma 0]

i like the way this thread is going, and ///M5 i keep trying to read your posts but you sig is so distracting, an an awesome sort of way i cant stop looking.

back on topic: actually im planning on doing a similar DIY component set, so ill post up what ive been planning for my truck

Dayton RS225-4 midbass

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=295-376

Dayton RS125-4 midrange

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=295-370

heres where in having decision troubles

tang band 1" tweet

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=264-804

Dayton 1 1/8" tweet

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=275-040

Morel 1 1/8" tweet

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=277-060

i think the morel may be the way for me to go since its 8 ohm so id have a better chance of finding a crossover so i dont have to build them

[///M5 2,833]

i like the way this thread is going, and ///M5 i keep trying to read your posts but you sig is so distracting, an an awesome sort of way i cant stop looking.

back on topic: actually im planning on doing a similar DIY component set, so ill post up what ive been planning for my truck

Dayton RS225-4 midbass

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=295-376

Dayton RS125-4 midrange

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=295-370

heres where in having decision troubles

tang band 1" tweet

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=264-804

Dayton 1 1/8" tweet

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=275-040

Morel 1 1/8" tweet

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=277-060

i think the morel may be the way for me to go since its 8 ohm so id have a better chance of finding a crossover so i dont have to build them

Personally I wouldn't use the Rs225 for a midbass, it is a midrange that plays low more so than a midbass that plays high.

The RS125 is a great midrange, but you may want to rethink how it mixes with those tweeters. The highest you can get it to play nice is 2.5kHz which isn't high enough for any of the choices that you have selected.

**also, no way in hell can I recommend a generic passive for your car. If measurements were made in situ then you should run active or keep it simple with a 2 way**

[ABXX49 20]

It will be pretty hard getting the large drivers on axis. Especially if I go with a 4.5" mid. It may be a challenge, but I think I'm up for it!

Now for the passenger side, how would I go about properly aiming those? Since I don't sit in the middle of the car, do I have to compensate? Aim towards my right ear? In front of my face? As you can tell I'm 100% new to this. I know some people will spend weeks and months trying to properly aim their speakers, but I really am not ready for that type of involvement. I would like to get good results with this, but I feel as I would have a hard time discerning the difference in a lot of aiming positions in the kicks. I figure I'll just try to eye ball it up, or maybe use the laser pen method.

[Old_Skool_Noma 0]

thanks, i was actually considering going active, but given that i drive a standard cab sonoma, its hard enough to find room for the three amps that im planning to run, so adding another 4 channel to that would be extremely hard, also, im not super worried about the rs225 getting super low as that will be handled by the subs, as long as its pretty flat down to about 80 hz, im fine. also regarding the rs125, ive heard of people running the 225 almost as high as you say with the 125 and not having a problem, another option that i was considering was running the RS100 instead of the 125, and i may bring back that idea

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.c...tnumber=295-378

[ABXX49 20]

Jacked up.

[Old_Skool_Noma 0]

It will be pretty hard getting the large drivers on axis. Especially if I go with a 4.5" mid. It may be a challenge, but I think I'm up for it!

Now for the passenger side, how would I go about properly aiming those? Since I don't sit in the middle of the car, do I have to compensate? Aim towards my right ear? In front of my face? As you can tell I'm 100% new to this. I know some people will spend weeks and months trying to properly aim their speakers, but I really am not ready for that type of involvement. I would like to get good results with this, but I feel as I would have a hard time discerning the difference in a lot of aiming positions in the kicks. I figure I'll just try to eye ball it up, or maybe use the laser pen method.

ive heard to take a thumbtack and put in a tennis ball to hang it from the ceiling in the center of where the front passengers will be sitting to aim the speakers at, the lazer pen would work great to aim from the phase plug, i would say try to get the midranges no more than 30* off axis and the midbass IIRC you can fire straight across with no ill effect, tweets should be as close to on axis to your ears as you can, ESP if you go with a ribbon or planar type

[ABXX49 20]

Why would I aim to where the passenger is sitting?

[Old_Skool_Noma 0]

i guess it would depend on how much other people ride with you, or if you planned to take to to any competitions, i forgot to mention that soft dome tweets are much more forgiving about off axis response than ribbon tweets, by aiming them to the center of the car, it gives a balanced listening environment for both passengers, if you rarely have anyone ride with you, or arent planning on any SQ competitions, then by all means aim them for you, but passenger imaging scores would be affected otherwise

[ABXX49 20]

I don't really have any plans for competing. I think I'll probably try to set my stage more centered around myself. I read something Ramos posted a while back about having someone else help you aim by standing outside of your window with some sort of marking utensil and marking some inches in front and down of your ear. Both passenger and driver. So I may consider that too.