help on my active set up

[jonbearsmt 919]

alright i went active last week and blew my tweeters withen about an hours play time....

maybe too much power.. maybe i had them crossed over wrong....

100.4 sundown amp... 1st model

and these ar4e my trweeters... http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...roducts_id=1466

where should my settings be?

[ABXX49 20]

How low did you have them crossed?

EDIT: Do you know how much power you were sending them?

[///M5 2,833]

What crossover are you using?

Generically speaking I'd cross them at 4000hz and work my way down from there.

It would be beneficial to know the rest of your drivers, your mounting locations, power, and so on as well.

**My guess if you blew those they weren't crossed correctly as they will take a lot of power if you follow the rec'd frequency range

[jonbearsmt 919]

im just using the the sundown amp to cross them... i had it around 5000 before.. and im pretty sure i had to much power on them

i had CDT midbass drivers.. but one blew so.. ikm gonna put some other speakers....

the tweeter is mounted like so

[dbjunior 0]

5k should have been high enough they are rated 2.5k-30k range most likely based on the 80w long life it says they can handle 200w shortened life so 120-150w crossed at 5k should have been fine for a while. how did they sound good or distorted.

[jonbearsmt 919]

no they had a great sound... but thinking back i was in a hurry and i had my gain about 3/4's i may have been clipping.

after blowing the tweeters i hooked up some boston 6x9s to see if i had any bass in the signal.. and i didnt.. it was highs obly just tweeting away...

i gotta say.. i wanted it to be louder... see im trying to get a very LOUD front stage... while staying as stock as i can... i dont really wanna fiber glass... or run multi speakers in each doors.. but im close to going that way.

[///M5 2,833]

Those aren't exactly the loudest tweeters that I have heard, but I am surprised that signal only would break them and that they wouldn't have been "loud enough". I'd guess your amp was clipped as well. Can you measure it and find out?

[jonbearsmt 919]

well i already changed the the settings..... but i did get new tweeters in today...

so sean if you could maybe guide me a little bit to where my settings should be close to that would be a great help.

i know your a busy man but i could really use your help on this one.

im also going to read a few other topics that you have helped with... so i can get a base

[///M5 2,833]

Can you list all your equipment? (hu, amps, speaks)

[jonbearsmt 919]

pioneer avh 5700DVD

sundown SAX-100.4D

SEAS Prestige 27TFFNC/G tweeters.

and the 6.5's i cant find any specs on.. they are called ball busters... i know i know but they look beefy.. and i blew one of the CDT6.5's so this is my option for now.

did i miss anything?

[///M5 2,833]

Hard to guestimate without knowing anything about that mid...it looks like it should play to 2k but perhaps higher. The higher it will play the louder you'll be able to get the tweet without huge underlaps.

So what you should do (note not in general for everyone, just for what you have here):

1) Set the gains on your midrange amplifier channels via an o-scope. Set the gains on the tweeter channel to zero and have the tweeters unplugged.

2) Since you are trying to get loud and are a bit of a basshead, set the HP on the midrange to 80hz at 12dB and the high pass at 1800hz at 12dB. Lower will sound way better, but will cost you volume as the speaker will get stressed earlier. If no bass notes stress it here, then you can turn it down.

3) Listen to some music just through the mids. Make sure they aren't breaking up or that you don't have any issues, wail on them a bit and make sure that they don't break up, smell, or seem to have any issues. It is imperative that you do this with your sub and tweeters off as for your ears strain in the driver will be much easier to hear this way. If everything is okay, move on. If they break up on bass notes try turning the HP crossover slope up to 24dB. If that still doesn't help, turn up the crossover to closer to 100hz (eek!).

4) Go back to listening at moderate levels. Actually take a break first to let your ears rest. Listen to something that has a nice full midrange and preferably a lot of vocals. Vocals make breakup and cone nastiness easier to here in particular for untrained ears. Now start raising the HP frequency in jumps of a couple hundred hz and re-listen to the song you just listened to. Keep going up until you can hear the speakers start to ruin the way things sound.

5) At this point you should report back what frequency you want these to play to, but generically speaking you can move forward.

6) Turn the tweeter crossover to the LP of the midrange +500hz. As an example if your mid is now playing from 80hz-2600hz, turn the tweeter crossover to 3100hz at 12dB.

7) Again at a moderate volume. Listen to ONLY your tweeters and midrange. At this point the tweeters will seem quiet. Pick the same vocal music you were listening to before and slowly turn up the tweeter gain until it blends nicely with the mids.

8) Now unplug the mids and listen to the tweeters alone. Pick some music that you like to play loud and listen to only the tweeters. You are listening for strain which is when they cannot reproduce the music very well. With each song turn up the music and listen for strain. Keep turning it up to the range where you would normally max out your volume control for your listening. (This better not be full max, but don't cheat yourself if you will truly put it there). Listen for stress. If you hear any turn up the crossover +500Hz and try again. Continue until there is no strain.

9) Turn your sub and mids back on and listen to the whole system. Let me know what you don't like now and what your settings are and we can try to improve it. It should sound pretty good and be about all you can get out of what you have volume wise, but depending on the frequency range you are lacking there are options.

*note all other settings, eq, t/a, bass boost and everything should be set to 0 the whole time you do the above

While listening slowly

**note 2, if you then add the above tweaks to compensate you should again listen to each driver independently and make sure it isn't stressed on music that would stress them the most.

[///M5 2,833]

Again, I want to point out that is not the order for everyone so for others reading this thread don't take that as an installation manual. This is just a specific set of help for BigJon's installation and equipment. The ideas can be used though, in particular the one of listening to only each specific driver.

I also in the process of listening to each driver would switch the phase of them +/- each independently and see what the effect is on the system...but that is for another day.

[jonbearsmt 919]

thanks so much sean.

[///M5 2,833]

Your welcome. If that isn't loud enough there are many other solutions, but that should get you going without another blown driver anyways.

[nem 2,019]

Seriously, that is some awesome help ///M5.

[jonbearsmt 919]

i took 2 hours and did as you stated... sept the o scope cause i dont have one... and my local jerk off audio shop says they have never heard of such a thing.

i got it to sound good... but ONE of my tweeters sounds stressed... the driver side sounds fine... passenger side sounds scratchie.. and like its seeing to much power... its really pissing me off...

my CDT mids were not blown after all just a cold joint.

but its just not loud like im looking for... my alpine type R comps were louder:( true it did not sound as clean but damn it was simple...

its looking like i may have to replace that passenger side tweeter already.. perhaps that is a bad tweeter.

i think i need a back stage... but damn i have to get another amp...

[///M5 2,833]

If you raise the HP crossover point on the tweeter does it still sound scratchy?

*what are your settings currently at?