Ultra Subs SS-6 Componets

[mr tibbs 0]

Hi guys/gals!! I know I'm still new here, but I have been around the forums for a while. Hopefully some of you recognize me. Anywho, I won these comps over on DIY and so far I am happy enough with them that I wanted to share! I'll just save myself some typing and copy and paste what I have written over on DIY for now, but I will update this thread as needed. Thanks for putting up with this guys and I hopw some of you will give them a shot. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Well, this is going to be my on going thread for my Ultra Subs SS-6 comps review. These are the comps that I won in the vendor give away. The Ultra website for these comps can be found here. My thanks goes out to IamMurph and all of those at Ultra as well as Ant for the Second Skin trunk pack. I will use the deadning in the FJ install. I say on going because these will be in two different vehicles and used in two different ways. I'll be updating the thread as I get the comps installed into the second vehicle and be giving my on going opinion as well.

The first vehicle that these will be going is in my car, a 2002Saturn SC2. I know, laugh it up, but it cost me $6000 and it gets 36 mpg. Done laughing, good, now on with the review. Currently (well up until today) installed I have the Seas 18RNX mids with the LPG tweets running active using my Pioneer 860mp as the x-over. The amp I am using is a Phoenix Gold Xenon 100.4, 4 channels at 100+ watts a channel. Traditionally I have been very pleased with this set up, but it seems I am always playing with the settings. It seems I just can't get it just right. To start off the Ultra comps will be a direct drop in replacement for the Seas and LPG's. They will also be run active.

Anywho, let's start off with some pictures. Here are the Ultra mids, they seem pretty beefy. Not too much to look at, but I kinda like that. I like when a company puts the money into the sound of the speakers, and not the cosmetics.

Take a look at the rim of the speaker. The top layer is a plastic guard piece I am guessing. The second layer is the basket itself, and the third (bottom) layer is my favorite. It's a foam gasket of sorts. I found this to be very cool! I don't think I have ever tested a speaker with a foam gasket on the mounting side before!

Here is the back side of the speaker. Nothing too fancy, but you can see the foam gasket a little better.

Here is the mid mounting system. Pretty standard from what I have seen in the past. Simple yet effective.

Here is a pic of the tweet in it's mounting cup.

Backside

Here is the tweet mounting system. I always worry about this when I buy comps because I never really know what to expect. No two companies seem to do this the same way and don't really elaborate on how they do it. After playing around with these I like the mounting options. I will most definitely try to flush mount these in the FJ. They do rotate around in the mounting cups a little so aiming them is pretty easy.

So, that's it for the initial pics. Next post is the install pics.

[mr tibbs 0]

After taking the initial pics I dug in and tore apart my doors to do the install. Here are a few comparison pics and the install pics.

Ultra on the left, Seas on the right. Notice the difference in size. The Ultra is a 6.5" and the Seas is a 7".

The backside comparison. Notice the difference in motor size and the vent hole. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but there is a difference.

And a side comparison shot.

Here are the tweets. LPG on the left and Ultra on the right. After playing with both of them I actually like the Ultra mounting options a lot better. They are much easier to aim.

And here are the install pics. Here are the mids installed on the spacer that I made to compensate for the depth of the Seas mids. I probably could have removed them, but I didn't want to rip up the ensolite. After installing the mids I made sure that there was still a good seal all the way around the speaker and the spacer. All is good.

Here is a shot of the door without the door panel. All of the holes are for mounting of the door panel. Notice the ensolite that is falling off. I resprayed that so hopefully it won't come off again.

And here is the finished install. Notice the tweet in the sail panel. It's not flush mounted, but it is solid and will do for now. I used the mounting system for the Ultra and I was able to aim these.

That's about it for the pics. I'll start another post with my initial thoughts and keep going from there.

[mr tibbs 0]

Now on to the initial thoughts of the sound these make. That is what we are after right? I'll start off with the technical stuff. Here is how I set the x-over points initially:

Sub (LPF) 63hz with a 24db slope and reverse phase

Mids (bandpassed) HPF 63hz with a 18db slope

LPF 2.5khz with a 12db slope

Highs (HPF) 2.5khz with a 24db slope

After a little tweaking here is where I ended up leaving them:

Sub (LPF) 63hz with a 24db slope

Mids (bandpassed) HPF 80hz with a 18db slope

LPF 3.15khz with a 12db slope

Highs (HPF) 3.15khz with a 24 slope

I may play around with them a little more but I think I'm close.

So, how do they sound?? Well, initial thoughts are they are damn nice!! Right up there on par with the best stuff I have ran. First CD in was Alice In Chains - Unplugged. I was doing a lot of tweaking with this so I really didn't give it a fair shake but it sounded really good. The plucks of the guitar strings were present with authority, but not overpowering. Layne's voice shined as always, and overall the CD sounded good.

Next I threw in the DIYMA SQ CD as I call it. First song I played was Dire Straights - Money for Nothing. HOLY S#*@!!! The drums were right in front of me, with authority! The voices were at eye level in front of me, DAMN!! This was what I was hoping for. Loud, and clear with authority. Just sonic bliss. I played this song about 4 times through before I made myself try something else.

After that I listened to Fleetwood Mac, Clapton, The Eagles, and that one some about Keith Don't Go or something like that all with similar results. Even the Dr. Dre track sounded really good, but made me realize something. I had to turn my sub down. For some reason it was getting overpowering. After a few little tweaks it just seemed to blend right in. So, I had to go back to Dire Straights to see if it effected that bliss. Nope, The authority of the drums seemed to shift from behind me a little bit to in front or slightly to the side. I actually like this a lot better.

Next I threw in some Days of the New. This is my safe CD. I have listened to this sooooo much that I seem to know every note by heart. I started off with Provider, and as always it sounded great. This song starts off slow with a single guitar then kicks into gear with Travis Meeks vocals. The guitar sounds soo damn good with this set. It seems to shine even more with the Ultra's than with the Seas for some reason.

After that I tried many of my favorite songs and found myself just listening to the music. Somewhere in there I stopped trying to pick apart the speakers and just enjoyed the music. This IMO is one of the highest compliments I can give these. Seriously, this is why I have dumped all of this money into a sound system is to just enjoy the music I love. I'm very pleased with this set so far.

A few notes before I end the initial review. At first I thought the tweets were less harsh that the LPG's but after listening to them I thing they are a little brighter. Maybe it's the different x-over settings, maybe not but I think I'm going to have to EQ these down a little bit. And speaking of EQ'ing, after tweaking here and there it looks like I am a lot close to having a flat EQ than I had before. I'm a hell of a lot closer to dead center than I was with the Seas and LPG's. I'm not sure what that means, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

So, there is the initial review. I'll update this in a week or so with my findings, then in two weeks or so I'll transfer them to the FJ and use the passives. I'm looking forward to the next few weeks, so far these are everything I have hoped for!!

[///M5 2,833]

I am curious as to more of a comparison with what you took out...

[mr tibbs 0]

I am curious as to more of a comparison with what you took out...

Well, the mids seem to blend with my sub better and have more authority. I have noticed that the bass has moved more in front of me than ever before. This is something I have always had a problem with, I just can't seem to blend the Seas in with the sub. And the tweets seem more bright to me. I'm sure this is something I can EQ out with enough time, but right out of the box they are bright. I would not say they are harsh though. I had some of the first RE RE comp sets and those mother's were HARSH! These are no where near that, just a little to high for my liking. Like I said in the review though I after some EQing I am closer to a flat EQ curve than I ever have been. These don't seem to take much EQing to sound good, unlike the Seas and LPG's. It seems I am always tweaking stuff with them. With the Ultra set I feel like I can get it tuned in after a bit and just leave it alone.

I hope that helped! Let me know if you guys have anymore questions!

[///M5 2,833]

Were the initial settings what you were using with the Seas/LPG setup? If not, do you have those as well. Also, did you change your gain settings and if so how were they set?

My main curiosity stems from the fact that I have found the CA18 to be about the easiest 6/7" mid to blend with a sub that I have ever played with. Not at all that I don't believe in your setup it is different, but I'd like to know why since there are many people that can benefit from easy to use drivers.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Great review Srgt. Tibbs! Interesting as these are matched components with crossover, but you tested them active and they seem to work well compared to your high end DIY set. Excellent amplifier choice sir.

[mr tibbs 0]

Were the initial settings what you were using with the Seas/LPG setup? If not, do you have those as well. Also, did you change your gain settings and if so how were they set?

My main curiosity stems from the fact that I have found the CA18 to be about the easiest 6/7" mid to blend with a sub that I have ever played with. Not at all that I don't believe in your setup it is different, but I'd like to know why since there are many people that can benefit from easy to use drivers.

Yes, the initial settings were what I was using with the Seas and LPG combo. Perhaps the problem I have with blending the mids and the sub is completely my fault. I'm kinda self taught and in no way do I blame the drivers I am using. I would seriously blame myself before them. Then again it might be the sub, and not that there is anything wrong with it, but maybe I just can't make it blend using the Seas. Dunno, but to my untrained ear the Ultras just seem to blend better.

As far as the gain go I did not touch them. I expected that I would have to, but left them untouched for the initial playing and just kinda left them where they sit. I did go from all 8 ohm drivers to all 4 ohm. One would expect that I would have to turn them down a touch, but I guess I just don't get that carried away with the volume knob. Also it speaks volumes to the great sensitivity rating on the 8 ohm Seas drivers. Interseting huh??!!

Great questions, please keep up the inquisition. This is how I learn!

[mr tibbs 0]

Great review Srgt. Tibbs! Interesting as these are matched components with crossover, but you tested them active and they seem to work well compared to your high end DIY set. Excellent amplifier choice sir.

Thanks Denim!! As far as the active bit goes, well I promised to give these a full review and since I have access to two different setups I thought I would go ahead and try them in both. I decided the car would go first because I believe these will ultimately end up in the FJ so I didn't want to swap them out more than once. And, just to be clear I'm not ready to give up my DIY active set just yet in the car. Maybe after playing with another set of speakers I can learn to tune a little better and get the Seas and LPG combo dialed in right where I want it. :clap:

[///M5 2,833]

My expectations would be that the Seas blend easier and have more midbass, but I think from your settings this might be the case.

In the process of switching to the Ultra's you turned down the sub which by default is the same as increasing the gain to the front stage. This of course will make your sub which was overpowering your mids blend better and at the same time give you the response of voices being at eye level.

As a reference here are your settings pasted from above:

Seas

Sub (LPF) 63hz with a 24db slope and reverse phase

Mids (bandpassed) HPF 63hz with a 18db slope

LPF 2.5khz with a 12db slope

Highs (HPF) 2.5khz with a 24db slope

Ultras

Sub (LPF) 63hz with a 24db slope

Mids (bandpassed) HPF 80hz with a 18db slope

LPF 3.15khz with a 12db slope

Highs (HPF) 3.15khz with a 24 slope

The Seas CA you should have playing much higher and with a shallower slope. The LPG's will break up like hell at only 2.5khz (at least you used a high slope, but raising the point and lowering the slope would help your response a lot). As a reference, I think mine are at 4k+ HP if not more and any less and they get nasty. The Seas play really nice up to near 4k, is it ideal as a midrange not at all but you could have run them higher.

My guess is that if you put the Seas & LPG combo back in with your new settings, although I would play the Seas much lower than 80hz and use shallower slopes across the board that your results will change and you will much prefer them. This of course is the difficulty with active setups though. Without a ton of time and an ear for it regularly the results can be far from what they could be if they were ideal.

The Ultra set sounds like an easy set to work with and being only 6.5" fits a different space. It is nice to hear that you are having a good experience with them as I am a very firm believer that for a first time active sticking to easy drivers (ie paper cone mid, and a tweet that plays low) is very beneficial. Had you upped to the Seas Excel in your initial install my guess is that you'd like the Ultra's even more than them, even though I consider the Excel a far superior driver to the CA with the wrong settings it can sound horrible where the CA can pull it off anyways.

So on to being helpful with your current setup.

Listen to each driver on its own, start with 6db slopes (except the sub which you can do much steeper) and pick your frequency range that you like for the drivers. Then start integrating them. Hopefully in the first part of the test you will find that you like them naturally underlapped which will make combining them much easier.

Either way, definitely let us know how things go and how we can help.

[mr tibbs 0]

Thanks man!! I'll definitely try that out. I sure don't have anything to lose. I have been pleased with what I had before, but I know there is room for improvement. I'll keep you guys updated with both set ups. The Ultra's will be in the car for a couple of weeks then they are off to the FJ where I will be using the passive x-overs. I kinda feel like that will be a better set up for them because it will be taking me out of the equation. We will see what they can do on their own then.

[Kent535 25]

Man !!!!

Your Carpet Is Sooo Clean

[bigtoepfer 0]

I really like this review. While i don't plan to buy any ultras anytime soon its nice to see a thorough review like this. And all the input from ///M5 (sorry i think i knew your name but i forgot it) is just awesome. This is why i like this forum so much. I do plan on upgrading my front stage soon. But waiting on Nick to put out the IA comps. Then we'll see what happens. But for right now i've stepped away from active it was just too much for me. But i can really appreciate the work you're putting into the review here. It helps me to learn alot more about the active side of things.

[mr tibbs 0]

Man !!!!

Your Carpet Is Sooo Clean

HAHA!! That's actually a white towel. Good spotting though.

I really like this review. While i don't plan to buy any ultras anytime soon its nice to see a thorough review like this. And all the input from ///M5 (sorry i think i knew your name but i forgot it) is just awesome. This is why i like this forum so much. I do plan on upgrading my front stage soon. But waiting on Nick to put out the IA comps. Then we'll see what happens. But for right now i've stepped away from active it was just too much for me. But i can really appreciate the work you're putting into the review here. It helps me to learn alot more about the active side of things.

Thanks for the kind words! Active can be a pain, but it can also be very worth it. There is definitely a learning curve though. As you can see I'm still learning. It's people like ///M5 that actually help me the most. I'm a very hands on learning type of guy so when I do something and I can see the results it helps me learn a lot.

As far as the Ultra's go keep watching this thread. As soon as I throw them into the FJ and they are using the provided passive x-overs I think they are really going to shine. :bigclap:

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

What amp is in the FJ? Also, it is great to see a front stage review from someone with well deadened doors and excellent taste in amplifiers. You are almost making me think I should sell the 200.4 and find a 100.4.

[mr tibbs 0]

What amp is in the FJ? Also, it is great to see a front stage review from someone with well deadened doors and excellent taste in amplifiers. You are almost making me think I should sell the 200.4 and find a 100.4.

The FJ has a PG Xenon 200.4. The 100.4 in the car has been great! IIRC actual output is around 140 watts per channel, and since I usually run the 8 ohm drivers this thing never heats up. It's been a great amp for me.

[mr tibbs 0]

Just a quick update guys. I ran into a little snag with the FJ so I still have these in the car, and I'm still loving them. I have a dash kit and a wiring harness for the FJ on the way and it should be here on Tuesday. I'm installing a Kenwood XXV-01D in the FJ and finally ditching the stock deck. So hopefully by the end of the week I should have these installed into the FJ and have some initial thought for you guys. Thanks for being patient with me guys and sorry to the guys at Ultra for taking sooo long. I am enjoying them in the car though!!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Looking forward to the FJ updates.

[mr tibbs 0]

Well guys, I finally got these installed into the FJ. It is a HUGE improvement!! You can read my initial thoughts here as well as see the comparison pics.

To be fair to the Exiles, when I initially did the install in the FJ I was after something completely different. I initially set it up for the wife as just something to upgrade from stock. Now that I have taken over the FJ I have been craving something totally different. The Ultra's have answered this craving. I would not hesitate to use the Exiles again in a vehicle for my wife, but for me I needed more.

I'll update this again when I get some more listening time in. As always ask away if you have questions!

[mr tibbs 0]

Well, after playing with these comps for over a month I feel like I can finally give my final thoughts on the set. There is one more thing I am going to do, but I'm not sure when I am going to get around to it so I'll go ahead and wrap this up.

First are my thoughts running these active in my car. What can I say, I really, really liked these. I felt like they worked better than my current set up (seas mids and LPG tweets) because of a few factors. Number 1, these were a lot easier for me to blend with my sub stage. For some reason in my car I have always felt like I am fighting to blend the Seas with my sub stage, but not with the Ultra mids. After a few adjustments I kinda felt like the "line" between my sub and the mids just went away. It was very nice to listen to while I had them in there. And number 2, this comp set was very easy to EQ. I'm not a pro at EQ'ing so it seems like I am always making adjustments even after having my set up in the car for a couple of years now. But, as soon as I threw the Ultra set in there and got it adjusted I really didn't have to mess with it at all. Also, using the Ultra gear my EQ was a lot closer to being flat that it has been in many years. I don't really think that it will be the same for every application, but that was the case in mine. The one hangup I had with the Ultra set was the tweet. It was a little bright for my tastes, but I was able to mellow it down with some EQ'ing. All in all as an active set I give this set a solid 9 out of 10.

Now in the FJ I am running them passive using the provided passive x-over. I replaced the existing Exile set with the Ultra's and it has been a HUGE difference. I know the Exile set is a shallow mount set, but they were still supposed to have some good midbass. Well, after installing the Ultra's I can tell you that the Exile's were not preforming. Giving them both the same power and the same signal the Ultra's are blowing them away. I could go on and on about what a difference these have made, but I think you get the point. In the FJ the Ultra's are really shining. I'm still having soem staging issues, but this is all about the placement of the tweet. That is what I have to change next. Even though the staging is off I am still very impressed with this set. Again, because of the added midbass I have now been able to blend my sub stage with the front stage. Also, once again I feel that the tweets are a little bright for my tastes, but I have been able to tame them with some EQ'ing. This problem could also be caused by the horrible stock location of the tweets. I plan to make some tweet pods and try to aim the the tweets better and see if this is part of the problem. In the FJ running them passive I again give this set a solid 9 out of 10.

So, after having this set for over a month and playing with them in two different vehicles I give them a solid 9 out of 10. The only thing holding me back from giving them a 10 is the bright tweet. The mids really seem to be the star of this set. They provide very solid midbass, yet blend well with the tweets. I guess this is to be expected from a sub company! After having this set it really makes me want to try out an Ultra sub. After all, that is their specialty! I have really enjoyed this set in both vehicles and would highly recommend them to anyone. And to those who have asked, yes, I do feel that this set is worth the $499 price tag. If you take a look at the competition in this price range I really do feel like Ultra is right where they need to be. It might be a steep price for some people, but I do not feel anyone would be disappointed with this set.

In closing I would like to thank Ultra subs and Murph for giving me the chance at reviewing this set. And Ant for the Second Skin, that has really killed all of the rattles in the door panels that I had in the FJ. I apologize for the length of time this review has taken, but I wanted to get it right. I hope I have done right by you guys, this has been a blast!!

[///M5 2,833]

Did you put the Seas/LPG back in and see how the comparison is when you have them crossed over more appropriately?

[mr tibbs 0]

Yep, I have been playing with them ever since I put them back in and I'm still not happy. Right now I am demoing a Dcon sub instead of having my regular sub in there and I still can't get it quite right. I really like the Dcon though!!

[///M5 2,833]

Curious as to what space they have and where they are crossed now.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Dcon

[mr tibbs 0]

Dcon

Pretty much. This Dcon has me seriously wanting an Icon to try out. But OTOH if I tested out an Icon I'm afraid it would never leave!!

M5, I'll get the x-over points for you tomorrow. Sorry for the delay, the wife has been hogging the car!

Edited April 23, 2009 by mr tibbs