Arsenal 10"s failing??

[3stagevtec 2]

i'm from another forum and a guy is claiming that he bought 6 AA Arsenal 10"s for separate applications, and all suffered suspension problems..

he says

the problem with the subs is that the suspension would tear closest to the cone area...

1 of the box that had 2 dual 4 subs powered by a TRX1500.1 Soundstream amp(and we all kn that this amp does only give out abt 1100 RMS

30X28X12.5 inches external dimensions....

the port was 5 inches an goes down 20 inches,,,

the guy who built the boxes said

box was 1.75cuft per side,20 si port tuned to 35hz

each speaker was seeing around 500wrms, which is rated power

we had no power problems ect,no clipping no dc to subs ect

i built the box and installed the subwoofers, set the gains ect

the problem is that the subs while not moving much, seems to develop a tear in the suspension,where it connects to the speaker's cone, all pairs did this even in the maunfactures specifed boxes and even while being underpowered

the subs however, are well designed and they play reallly good but that little problem makes it very hard because the suspension cannot be replaced

kits are extreemly hard to come by from what i've been seeing and this is my concern( i personally haven't called,i'm only saying what chipset has complaining about)

this has happened to all the subs i used, and i want an answer for why it tears,i'm not bashing anyone or any products, it's just a problem that need to be fixed asap

another thing all the speakers were broken out properly b4 they were used so it's not a problem of the sub break out

i looking to find out if this is a known problem, or if the problem lies elsewhere..

thanks

[BKOLFO4 29]

They fail if you abuse them. . .

[ABXX49 20]

They fail if you abuse them. . .

I have to agree. I can't think of too many woofers that are going to fail if you play them the way they are designed. (Every once in a while there will be a lemon.)

[johnecon2001 82]

Guy sounds like a tard. A recone will replace the suspension...

[Duran 387]

His break in line just proved that hes a n00b.

[KU40 173]

They fail if you abuse them. . .

I have to agree. I can't think of too many woofers that are going to fail if you play them the way they are designed. (Every once in a while there will be a lemon.)

Well, except for the flat-cone ED A's of a while ago. But that's a different story.......

[BKOLFO4 29]

Well, except for the flat-cone ED A's of a while ago. But that's a different story.......

[BILTD 60]

Any mention of a subsonic filter?

[3stagevtec 2]

ok, abuse most likely seems to be the culprit here.. i just wanted to make sure there wasn't any possible manufacturer defect in them..

thanks

[katsooba 0]

subsonic filter would help protect the subs,

also, try checking if the coils of the subs are in phase with each other,

6 out of 6 subs failed? thats just not right

[lithium 358]

ive got an 12" arsenal. theres no way u can kill this sub on 500rms with out abusing it.

[nick_19 1]

He doesn't sound too intelligent. "How could they fail when being UNDERPOWERED" even though he was giving them RMS... Doesn't sound like it's the subs' problem...

[Thumpper 266]

I have shreaded several subs but they have been pushed way beyond their capabilities

the only way to damage the subs suspension is to over exert,pound to hard when in cold temperatures

or not break the sub in properly...

using a sub sonic filter will help...and remember when the surrounds stretch out that's all there is (TURN IT DOWN)

cause it will eventually rip itself apart

[CustomCar&Sound 0]

I would also add that a very common problem is playing a sub too hard outside it's tuning. It is usually very easy to identify if a sub is labouring, by just watching what the subs are doing, ie. if they are moving alot but the actual sound or output is not as loud as with other songs or frequencies then chances are you are playing the subs out of their tuning or "happy place" lol.

Because what is actually happening at that point is that the sub's supension is trying to do all the work, and not getting any or little help from the box, almost the same as taking the sub and putting it on the floor and pounding the same 500 watts to it.

A good example of this is competitive spl setups, they have very pointed tuning, in other words they are meant to play a very limited frequency. But when they are playing that frequency or money note, they are in control or a controlled environment if you will, that is why they can take 10,000+ watts each. BUT, if they slipped up and played the wrong note, the result is usually Carnage (don't ask me how I know that). If their note is say 60hz and they played 50hz that could be the result.

Hope that helps.

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Are these the new versions of the Arsenal or the older versions with the blank dustcaps? We have yet to hear of any failures from any of our dealers or distributors for the new Arsenals that we produce.

As mentioned above, suspension failures in ported boxes are often caused by improper subsonic filtering... please remember that the port acts as a giant hole in the box below tuning allowing the sub to unload.

Thanks,

Scott

[3stagevtec 2]

when i investigated this myself, it seemed that excessively high port tuning, as well as people who don't know how to detect distortion is possible for the failures..

the guy had posted these pics on another forum..

these are the boxes, 2.2cu.ft tuned 45Hz!!!

[3stagevtec 2]

that's a good lesson on how NOT to build a box imo.. maybe except for strict SPL purposes..

he also mentioned that dry rot was the reason for the failures.. what is the typical life / reliability of foam suspensions? how much abuse can they take, environmentally speaking?

Edited February 28, 2009 by 3stagevtec

[nem 2,019]

It really does not look like dry rot, it looks more like sub abuse.

[KU40 173]

it's not dry rot. It would probably take at least 20 years for that to happen. With a tune at 45 hz and that obvious suspension damage due to overexcursion, 95% chance they played well below tuning and were too deaf to hear the stressing.

[Fi Car Audio 64]

It definitely appears as over excursion due to the tuning and lack or improper susbonic filter settings. This can be done to about anything... subsonic filter settings with ported enclosures are key. Not sure how to stress that enough.

Wonder what dealer these were purchased through as none have said anything about it. But we do work with dealers directly on how to properly set things up as well and it massively reduces any sort of failures with products (another reason why we dont go via distribs and rep firms).

[nem 2,019]

It definitely appears as over excursion due to the tuning and lack or improper susbonic filter settings. This can be done to about anything... subsonic filter settings with ported enclosures are key. Not sure how to stress that enough.

Wonder what dealer these were purchased through as none have said anything about it. But we do work with dealers directly on how to properly set things up as well and it massively reduces any sort of failures with products (another reason why we dont go via distribs and rep firms).

This is what makes you stand out from the mass producers.

[3stagevtec 2]

this question was asked on another forum and everyone came to the same conclusion.. i.e. box design / over excursion / not dry rot...

the subs were bought from a local dealer in Trinidad..

[nem 2,019]

this question was asked on another forum and everyone came to the same conclusion.. i.e. box design / over excursion / not dry rot...

the subs were bought from a local dealer in Trinidad..

Trinidad... Been there, great island. Next time I get there I will hve to check out the car audio scene.

[NDMstang65 403]

Trinidad..

That explains a lot.

[rushnrun 14]

wow that's a huge box and a ton of port for daily... looks like over excursion/abuse