AA Havoc 12" dies

[Pipo 0]

Well I want to let Scott and the rest of you know that one of my Havoc's is dead after over 150 hits in the last 2 months, since February of 2008, after 10 shows this year doing Bass Boxing and Bass Race, alot of demoing and having 4 SS 6500 on 16 12" and now having 4 CS 5KW's. So I most say I'm a little dissapointed on the product j/k

It was funny because I was doing some testing and suddenly I smell coils and I never did before since having this subs in, so I though that they are finally getting some power and that's why they were smelling.

Anyway I have to say that now I know this subs are real because when they were not breaking after all the pain I gave them and nothing happening to them I just though they were not subwoffers:).

[scottxgtr 9]

thats a shame. im sure there are many out there that would love to give your havoc motor a proper burial. ill do it for free.

[BILTD 60]

Pretty good going, how much more power are they getting with the new amps?

[seanbw 1]

haven't you had those havocs since last spring? wow, that's a durable sub.

[Pipo 0]

I had those subs since Feb. 2008 and have 4 spares, so I just open my first one out.

Also is not really how much power I was giving them is how much I actually play it, because a sub taking 1000 watts all the time can only last you so much even if they are 1500 rms.

With the SS 6500 I was putting about 750 watts to each and now around 1000 watts and the box just crack all around the diamond so that's needs to be fix.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

What do you hit with sixteen 12's?

[KU40 173]

Also is not really how much power I was giving them is how much I actually play it, because a sub taking 1000 watts all the time can only last you so much even if they are 1500 rms.

That's not really true. If we are talking strictly thermal handling here and take the box out of it, a speaker with a 1500 watt thermal RMS rating should be able to take 1000 watts RMS for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, however long you want to play it. Thermal ratings are based on the dissapation of heat. It's like your car's engine. It may start out cold and warm up, but once it hits that temperature where the coolant equalizes with the heat produced, the engine won't warm up any more and you can drive it forever at that temp.

[Pipo 0]

Yeah but my subs are in my truck not outside so I'm talking real testing and beating.

[Pipo 0]

What do you hit with sixteen 12's?

Best I did last year in Bass race was a 157.2 and in Bass Boxing 158.8

[BKOLFO4 29]

That's not really true. If we are talking strictly thermal handling here and take the box out of it, a speaker with a 1500 watt thermal RMS rating should be able to take 1000 watts RMS for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, however long you want to play it. Thermal ratings are based on the dissapation of heat. It's like your car's engine. It may start out cold and warm up, but once it hits that temperature where the coolant equalizes with the heat produced, the engine won't warm up any more and you can drive it forever at that temp.

x2. If you could smell them, you were hitting them with more power than you think. . .Or maybe it actually died a mechanical death. Sealed box, do you get a lot of excursion? Have you determined what actually failed?

[KU40 173]

Yeah but my subs are in my truck not outside so I'm talking real testing and beating.

That's not what I meant. I meant take the box out of the equation, meaning taking mechanical limits imposed by the box off the table and just looking at thermal failure points.

[seanbw 1]

doesn't running small sealed enclosures build up heat more quickly than a ported box? i could see the woofer having the capability to cool itself but being stuck in a small oven can't help.

[Pipo 0]

Again I'm guessing no one here know how much I beat this truck but is ok I understand and let's just leave it like that. Again Scott you have made great subs and I can't thank you enough for not spending weekends reconing subs like I did before I got your subs.

[BKOLFO4 29]

I think the confusion was the way you made the statement in post 5. It sounded like you were saying that you played the sub within its limits, but it failed just because you played it a lot.

KU40 was just stating that if you played it within its limits, it would not matter if you played it 24 hrs a day over the past year, it should not die.

Understanding that you beat the heck out of it beyond its limits for almost a year explains why it died

Brian

[Pipo 0]

I would love to see a sub play for a year and 24 hrs. a day non stop....So take a 1200 rms sub and put around 700 watts for a year and make a video of it:)

[BKOLFO4 29]

I hate to keep arguing, but if you are truely only giving those subs 700 watts each, and they are not mechanically limited to lower power due to the enclosure, the sub should not have died in less than one year, even if you played it pretty much non-stop.

I have a feeling if you smelled the coils, you are giving them more power than you think

Is the crack in the diamond causing an air leak in the sealed box?

Please don't get mad for my responses. . .I just don't agree that the driver died from playing it too much. I think you had to be beyond the limits of the sub while playing it so much.

Brian

[NDMstang65 403]

A lot more variables are going on with that truck Brian.

It's violent.

Very violent.

Ask him about his other subs

[BKOLFO4 29]

A lot more variables are going on with that truck Brian.

Which further makes my point.

If there are mechanical limitations due to the enclosure/truck combination, then that would add to driver failure. I would also think if the sub is rated 1250 RMS thermally, you should not smell coil burning at 1000 watts RMS.

I am not saying something is wrong with the setup (or that it is user error) that made it fail. When you push things to the point of what competing has become, things will fail, but the posts makes it sound like a driver playing within its advertised limits failed from being played too much. . .I would not think that is a good reputation for the Havoc. If played within its limits, it should last for years.

I'll try not to say anything else

Brian

[Pipo 0]

Again the year before I put this subs in I spend a lot of times reconing 4,5,6 even 8 subs after each show and this were 900 RMS subs, so again my bad I guess they needed to last me a decade to be approve by everyone.

out...

[ford302redneck 15]

Again the year before I put this subs in I spend a lot of times reconing 4,5,6 even 8 subs after each show and this were 900 RMS subs, so again my bad I guess they needed to last me a decade to be approve by everyone.

out...

[BKOLFO4 29]

Here we go. . .you are not listening to what I am saying and now just go off with sarcastic comments. I never said anything about approving of them. I love AA subs - run them in my house and vehicles.

My point is still that your comment in post number 5 is incorrect. You did not kill the subs from playing them too much within their limits, you killed them from abusing them. In whatever way that abuse was. . .mechanical or thermal.

Subs do not die within a year when playing within their advertised limits unless they are rated incorrectly or have a manufacturer defect.

[nick_19 1]

I see exactly what you are saying, Brian, and I agree.

Pipo, Brian is not relating what he is saying DIRECTLY to your setup, he is speaking about woofers in general. The specifics and variables within your setup make it impossible to concur, from us forum members' positions, what caused the driver to fail. I own a Havoc, and I love it. I feed it around 1400 RMS everyday and have yet to smell the coils. It might not last as long because I am exceeding its limits, but if I was to not exceed them, it would be able to last forever (thermally speaking, not mechanically).

Brian is not bagging the Havoc, he is just stating that the sole cause of failure of your driver was NOT from the amount it was played, but from some other cause, such as HOW it was played.

[BKOLFO4 29]

Funny, I know it is not how this topic started, nor was it the point of this topic, but I was thinking. . .

If a newbie dropped in here and said "Man my Havoc died after 10 months. I was testing and smelled the coils burning, but I am only running it on a 1000 watt RMS amp in a sealed box", I don't think anyone would reply "You probably just played it too much over those 10 months". . . No that person would get flamed by everyone about gain settings, clipping, not understanding mechanical power handling, etc. (I am not saying this applies to you Pipo - I do understand you run the havocs under extreme conditions and I think it is great they lasted so much longer than your previous subs).

I really should not keep on. . .my whole point was havocs should not get a rep for not lasting more than 10 months if "played too much" on 700-1000 watts. And honestly I was not going to even post until I backed up KU40 comments above. . .

In the end, your truck is bad a$$, and so are the Havocs. . .

Brian

[nick_19 1]

True that!

[NDMstang65 403]

Funny, I know it is not how this topic started, nor was it the point of this topic, but I was thinking. . .

If a newbie dropped in here and said "Man my Havoc died after 10 months. I was testing and smelled the coils burning, but I am only running it on a 1000 watt RMS amp in a sealed box", I don't think anyone would reply "You probably just played it too much over those 10 months". . . No that person would get flamed by everyone about gain settings, clipping, not understanding mechanical power handling, etc. (I am not saying this applies to you Pipo - I do understand you run the havocs under extreme conditions and I think it is great they lasted so much longer than your previous subs).

I really should not keep on. . .my whole point was havocs should not get a rep for not lasting more than 10 months if "played too much" on 700-1000 watts. And honestly I was not going to even post until I backed up KU40 comments above. . .

In the end, your truck is bad a$$, and so are the Havocs. . .

Brian

The 'noob' doesn't have 16 subs and doing 160dB+ on the dash with music either.

Those sealed boxes turn into ovens after a few runs, ask Lil John...

Your looking waaaaaaaaaaaaay too far into this man.

Will they break with 1250 watts? Sure.

Will they break with 200 watts? Sure.

1 Watt...eh probably not.

It's a matter of not taking something out of context...Pipo beats the hell out of anything he has ever had. That's just how it is.