First System - Help w/ Selection/Rate Already purchased parts

[dlink 0]

This is my first system, might attempt DIY if I can find someone local to walk me through, or there is a small local shop I trust.

Going in 07 Yaris Hatch.

i was thinking subless, but now I might want to throw a 10" sub in the back for some more SPL and bass.

I want an even mix of SQ and SPL, (50:50) but if I tilt to more SPL (40:60 respectively), I won't mind. This will not be a competition car.

Going to run active.

Current parts (in hand)

HU: Alpine CDA-9887

Kick-Panel: Hybrid Audio (HAT) Legatia-4 (L4)

Rear: RE Audio XXX 6.5 Components w/ tweeters (tweets in the A-pillar or by the L4's, not decided yet)

I'll be using Second Skin's Damplifier for the dampening.

So...

Will I get enough midbass out of the RE XXX's, or should I really throw a single 10" in the back? I've heard awesome things about the RE XXX 6.5s, but again, I want this to be able to sound good, but also get loud too. Not so much to shake the car next to me, but I want to be able to let them to know what I am listening to, if you catch my drift. Also, if I get an amp, should I ditch the L4s or the XXX's and regain some of my $$$, or just keep and use them?

Also, I need amp suggestions so I can get this party started.

Thanks in advance.

/edit

I've used the search function, i've lurked for about 2 months and I've gotten help on DIYMA, now I am asking for second (third really) opinions. I'm a bit anal like that.

Edited November 3, 2008 by dlink

[RobClay 20]

it sounds like your just wanting a nice sounding system, everything even and mixed well together correct?

but then you said you want it to get loud. which one is it?

Edited November 3, 2008 by RobClay

[dlink 0]

I want both, if possible. For a daily commute, I'd like for it to sound nice. I want what has been described as a "warm" sound. Nothing to high or "crisp" but I also want the ability to make it loud during the summer or if I am out with my friends. If this is not possible, let me know. I am new to this admittedly.

[lithium 358]

i vote for a nice 10 or 12 sealed in the trunk. idk your budget but a nice sub would add a nice bottem end that you would enjoy.

im sure some ppl will quickly recommends some subs like fi q, fi ssd, mach 5 ixl, etc.

Edited November 3, 2008 by lithium

[RobClay 20]

hm. i think either one 15" fi Q or 1 12" ported, its a sound quality sub, and can get pretty loud

[lithium 358]

he mentioned even goin subless so i thought he wasn't looking for too much output.... but... he said he wanted a balance between spl and sq aswell...

if he has the budget for a 15 q and room for the ported box then id say go for it. its not like u cant turn it down haha.

Edited November 3, 2008 by lithium

[RobClay 20]

he said "For a daily commute, I'd like for it to sound nice. I want what has been described as a "warm" sound. Nothing to high or "crisp" but I also want the ability to make it loud during the summer or if I am out with my friends. If this is not possible, let me know. I am new to this admittedly."

i looked up his type of car, it looks like he would have plenty of room for one of the 2.

[///M5 2,833]

Curious on the mounting locations for the front stage. As for the sub, I am confused by your 50:50 split on SQ and SPL and desire to go subless. Perhaps a different definition of terms is in order.

[dlink 0]

what I meant by "50:50 SPL:SQ: was that I meant like I want equal parts SQ and SPL. Ideally, I want speakers that can do a combination of both. That is why I got the RE and the L4's . I heave read and heard great things about them. The L4s have a great range, and the XXX's supposedly can get some crazy midbass. However, despite this, my rresearch has made me think that I'd still be lacking the truly low frequencies if I don't go with a sub, hence the thread.

I'd prefer to stay at 10" or an absolute max of 12" because I'd like to keep as much space in the hatch as possible. I haul stuff on a regular basis. That was why I started out with a desire to be subless. A 15" is simply out of the question. I was thinking a 12" slim might work as well because even ported it would have a relatively small footprint, but I wasn't sure if I'd be sacrificing anything by going slim.

As for the front stage locations, my plan was as follows:

RE XXXs in rear locations absolutely.

The Yaris has a 6" front speaker, but I've seen people put a 6x9 in there, so I figured I could have the L4s and the tweets be put in a 6x9 sized baffle and put them both in the panel.

If not, I can just put the tweets in the A-pillar.

As for budget, my original budget has been thrown out the window more or less. I'm not trying to stay less than 1500, preferably around 1200 (USD) The L4s and XXXs cost me around 450, the HU another 250, so that leaves me with roughly 500-750 left to spend on speakers alone. I am not counting install and dampening yet. With the L4s and the RE's I know the sub would have a lot to live up to, so I am thinking maybe around 150-250 for the sub and the same for each amp (assuming I would need 2 amps to run what will be 7 speakers).

Again, though, I am not above selling the L4s and XXX's if you think something simpler like like the HAT L61-2s + sub would be a better sound than what I have.

I hope that clears things up. Thanks a ton for the comments already. If I had known I'd get such a fast reply I would have started here earlier in the process.

[RobClay 20]

how much are you wanting to spend for a sub?

[dlink 0]

With the L4s and the RE's I know the sub would have a lot to live up to, so I am thinking maybe around 150-250 for the sub and the same for each amp (assuming I would need 2 amps to run what will be 7 speakers).

150-250 for sub

150-250 per amp

~750 max

[Duran 387]

Midbass is just that, MIDBASS! Don't let your midbass playing where your substage should be.

[manbeer 0]

for the amps i would go with 3 of the refurb rockford T3002's that are floating around ebay for like 140/each. for the subs, if you are looking to go small but get reasonably loud and keep it in that price range, maybe a pair of the sundown E8's would be nice

[dlink 0]

Midbass is just that, MIDBASS! Don't let your midbass playing where your substage should be.

and that is exactly what I found on all the boards where people asked the same question.

I've also read that rear fill is pretty much unnecessary and a waste of funds, but I didn't buy the XXXs for rear fill, I bought them for midbass, so should I keep them all? Also, will the 9887 handle this many speakers?

The specs page says...

Max Power Output Ratings

* Max Power Output: 50W x 4

so will it even be able to handle 2 L4s + 2 XXX 6.5s + 2 tweeters + 1 sub?

If not, or if it would sound better, should I sell those and get the L61-2 set for the just a bit more?

http://www.12velectronics.com/servlet/the-...nologies/Detail

Or get a C61-2 for the same price?

http://www.12velectronics.com/servlet/the-...nologies/Detail

/edit

anyone who would like to take the time to talk to me in real time, my aim is dlinkwit27. i'd appreciate it.

Edited November 3, 2008 by dlink

[MKader17 332]

Mmmkay lets start with the front stage.

Maybe I confused what you were saying but putting the XXX's in the rear is rear fill.

The Component set was designed to play from say 50Hz to 20,000Hz (semi-arbitrary numbers), and the Tweeter picks up where the Driver trails off, so adding an L4 that plays say 100hz to 6000Hz (again arbitrary numbers, I don't know the frequency response of the L4's) is going to be tough/impossible because the component set is designed to play these frequencies as well. Its generally not a good idea to have speakers overlap large amounts in frequencies. What I'm trying to get at is that you either should just use the XXX Components or get a new set of speakers for a 2-way design. I would not attempt a 3-way design as a first system because creativity with driver location becomes really important and there are many other factors. A 2-way design can be much more easily tuned in off axis situations.

Thats it for speaker selection

Can the 9887 handle 2-way active processing? If not you will need an amp that can do it. You will also need an amp for your sub.

With your space constraint you may also consider getting a passive setup like the HA Clarius set and a low wattage sub and run one 4 channel amp with channel 3-4 bridged

[dlink 0]

Specs for the 9887 can be found >here<. I'd love to just post the info, but I honestly don't know what I am looking for :/

The XXXs were not meant as rear fill, they were meant for midbass. I figured tweets for highs, L4s for midrange (that's what they are advertised for) and XXX for midbass.

I'm grabbing the freq specs now, so expect an edit sometime soon:

Freq. Specs:

XXX tweets - 30 hz

L4 - 90-1700 Hz via manual (.pdf)

XXX 6.5 - 62.3 Hz (seems weird) Other data tells me: 87.5 dB midbass 92dB Treble (for what it is worth)

i cannot find any documentation on the freq range of the XXX's. All I have is a crappy pic off the box

The numbers are based off this site: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...=auto&tl=en

/edit

I'm starting to think I should just sell the speakers and go L61-2

L1 - 3,000 hz - 20,000 hz

L6 - 51.5 hz - 5000 hz

Sub - ~20-50 hz depending on choice

Edited November 3, 2008 by dlink

[JimJ 11]

Midbass is just that, MIDBASS! Don't let your midbass playing where your substage should be.

Absolutely nothing wrong with having the midbass also take over sub duties if it's up to the job, in fact some of the best sounding setups I've heard do it this way

[///M5 2,833]

what I meant by "50:50 SPL:SQ: was that I meant like I want equal parts SQ and SPL. Ideally, I want speakers that can do a combination of both. That is why I got the RE and the L4's . I heave read and heard great things about them. The L4s have a great range, and the XXX's supposedly can get some crazy midbass. However, despite this, my rresearch has made me think that I'd still be lacking the truly low frequencies if I don't go with a sub, hence the thread.

RE XXXs in rear locations absolutely.

The Yaris has a 6" front speaker, but I've seen people put a 6x9 in there, so I figured I could have the L4s and the tweets be put in a 6x9 sized baffle and put them both in the panel.

If not, I can just put the tweets in the A-pillar.

Again, though, I am not above selling the L4s and XXX's if you think something simpler like like the HAT L61-2s + sub would be a better sound than what I have.

Ok.

I was confused as SPL is a term "only" applied to the subwoofer and if you run without one it didn't make a whole lot of sense. By SPL I assume you mean just loud.

XXX's in the rear isn't a good idea. If you want your midbass to come from the rear you should probably just buy a sub that can play into the midbass range.

If the Yaris has a 6" speaker opening, you should probably simplify your whole setup and move to a 2 way. If you could fit an 8 in there then potentially a 3 way, but considering your goals a simple 2 way + sub would be the best solution.

Personally I would sell the L4's and the XXX's, but you could just try the XXX set and see if you like them first.

Midbass is just that, MIDBASS! Don't let your midbass playing where your substage should be.

Absolutely nothing wrong with having the midbass also take over sub duties if it's up to the job, in fact some of the best sounding setups I've heard do it this way

I agree; however, in this case the midbass is in the rear and that isn't in parallel with the "best sounding setups" you have heard.

[JimJ 11]

Ah, I missed that part.

[MKader17 332]

Specs for the 9887 can be found >here<. I'd love to just post the info, but I honestly don't know what I am looking for :/

The XXXs were not meant as rear fill, they were meant for midbass. I figured tweets for highs, L4s for midrange (that's what they are advertised for) and XXX for midbass.

The 9887 isn't going to be able to handle active processing by itself. Which means if you go active the Amplifier will have to have the processing capabilities (Like the Sundown 100.4)

In a previous post you said "RE XXX in the rear locations absolutely". So if they are mounted in the rear location they are rear fill no matter if they are meant for midbass.

I think it would be better to start off with the L6-L1 combo.

[dlink 0]

Interesting. I was worried this would be the result (selling off everything). Well, I got a pretty good deal on the L4s and the XXX's, so I'll be able to pass that on to some lucky forum members I guess.

Luckily for me, I might be able to get a L61-2 set for sub 500$

/edit

gah, I need 25 posts before I can go to classifieds, but consider the L4 and RE XXX 6.5c for sale.

200 for L4

300 for XXX 6.5c

Pics avail when my g/f brings me her digital camera.

Edited November 3, 2008 by dlink

[dlink 0]

L4s are gone! They went fast

RE XXX 6.5c left, still only 300 US$

[MKader17 332]

As far as substage is concerned would you mind re-stating your goals? At first you mentioned going subless but though you may miss the lower frequency response. Then you started stating that you would like "some SPL".

[dlink 0]

My first ideas was subless. I still wanted an even mix of volume and quality. The subless plan was due to a desire to keep the system simple, but most importantly to retain cargo space in my tiny hatchback. After a bit (well, more than a bit really) of reading and research, I found that a subless system would be lacking in both. Volume for obvious reasons, and SQ due to my lack of lower frequency support. So, I now am going to get a L61-2 front stage with some sort of sub in the back. I was thinking a slim would be nice do to the small footprint, but I don't know if they lose quality or punch when you slim them down.

[///M5 2,833]

Still not clear.

By definition, SPL means the peakiest but loudest possible response. SQ would be a smooth even response.

You throwing out SPL confuses all of us. Of course this is also because your goal seems to be a very small box but then again you ask for output.