Welcome to the IHoP

[dem beats 1,223]

Snacks are where you can make headway. Hard to drink 3 pints of cream, easy to drink a half pint as a hot chocolate with BF.

Biggest reason why I stopped my fasting for 16hours, and 8hour eating window. Simply couldn't get enough kcal in 8hour window, so it became counterproductive in my situation--though others would venture to say it was always counterproductive.

qu'est-ce que c'est?

[dem beats 1,223]

[dem beats 1,223]

This is basically what I use:

http://www2.knifecen...-Damascus-Blade

Here is mine.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/henckels-miyabi-7000d.html

8" also VG10 with a little dimascus touch to the outside.

[dem beats 1,223]

Eff yahoo!

I cannot get into my Flicker page. I know my password, but because I have not gone on the site for a long time they made me answer my security questions..... which I must have blown off because it isn't working.

[sandt38 448]

All the fucking toolbars make the site useless on a mobile device. Lack of "view new posts" and a reasonable background make the mobile skin suck on anything. Not amused.

I agree.

Does anyone EVER use the facebook/twitter/+1/YouTube links? Seriously, anyone on the site EVER?

No

I like the idea of stuff I can repeat on a constant basis so I know where I'm at for kcal, though I'll eventually get tired of it. Remember how I said I ate sardines, tuna, potatoes a ton. Well I'm tired of potatoes now, and don't eat the sardines or tuna very often.

Stop fucking around and buy mass gainers. I know you say you want to keep it natural, but there is nothing natural about eating 2 sticks of butter or drinking 2 cups of olive oil. Based on the shit I see you putting in your body I would say at this rate you are doing massive damage to your digestive and pulmonary systems.

You can throw back 5Kcals in 20 minutes with gainers.

[dem beats 1,223]

I think his argument with gainers is the high carb/sugar content. And I know they whole maltodextrin argument about how it works in the belly, but it is still inconsistent for time of digestion.

Personally I think the guy could use a HUGE boost in insulin from sugar/carbs in general and would see AMAZING growth with how often he works out.

But I do understand the fat being perceived as a healthier option.

[sandt38 448]

Meh, I think the argument is just another reason for people to say their way is better. But what matters is the end result. These companies putting out the gainers are doing research to find out what delivers the quickest and best results. You can use Body Fortress gainers and switch to a well established higher end company like BSN and see a difference in results. I personally like many of the BSN options, and use them fairly regularly if I feel the need.

IMO if the goal is to achieve a certain result, a set goal, there is no reason a good supplement is a bad option for a short term. Get to that set goal, and don't keep raising the bar, then go back to the natural method. I am not saying don't keep raising your personal bar, but set the goal you want to achieve with supplements, then step off and go the original route.

When I get going with my winter routine (bulk) I see far greater results then Stefan is seeing now with a little help from BSN. I can throw on 2-3 pounds in a week at the start with ~3000 calories derived from supps and another 2-2500 from food, then slow down generally after I gain 10-15 pounds. I think ~220 is where my body wants to be, but I generally get up to 225 before I trim down. IMO cutting is really where you need to go more natural. But I have found the best results with a bulk in winter, and a cut in spring. You need to build the mass first, then define it.

[dem beats 1,223]

I agree with you. Especially the part about using sups to help as a way to expedite the process. It may ultimately be healthier too in many ways.

I also agree that for us to bulk then cut, it is much easier. However, this is exasperated by living in a place that gets cold in the winter. I find it much more natural to gain fat in winter.... even though up until recently I was more active in winter. Snowboarding, snow shoing..... I used to run in the winter too. I get too hot in the summer lol.

For educated people like us I think supplements or even drugs for that matter are just fine. If you want to get an Rx for some weightloss drug or just find it and take it, it's probably healthier than carrying around an extra 75 pounds. Then again that is for smart people who know how to eat and exercise in general already. I wouldn't recommend anything but piles of vegis and whole foods to an imbecile.

[dem beats 1,223]

I also think BSN makes a really solid product. I hate paying for it though.

They made a pre work out booster that made me feel Herculean. It had beta alenine in it though and if it is HQ beta alenine and a healthy dose of it my ass itches like crazy. Some people get tingles down there back.... me I get ultra ass itch.

[dem beats 1,223]

And activity plays a huge role. Stefan you sound like you never stop moving. Always going and moving and even your work outs are less force driven and more energy output driven.

When I was lifting, taking martial arts classes worked 2 jobs, one of wich was a laborer, I constantly ate over 6000kcal. I lost about 10 pounds that summer.

[dem beats 1,223]

Half gallon of milk for before lunch almost every day. Huge lunches. 2 double whoppers no problem.

3-6 fried egg sandwiches for breakfast.

Every meal was basically 2 meals though. And then pounding snacks all day.

[dem beats 1,223]

Hard to believe how much work I could output in a day back then. I should have played football....

Edited January 10, 2013 by dem beats

[///M5 2,833]

This is basically what I use:

http://www2.knifecen...-Damascus-Blade

Here is mine.

http://www.chefknive...yabi-7000d.html

8" also VG10 with a little dimascus touch to the outside.

Good point, I wouldn't recommend a 10" for you Stefan. Your hands are too small. For me an 8" is dangerous as riding it on my knuckles could mean cutting them since they are so high off the cutting board. I need the extra vertical in my knife. Exactly why Hung uses a Chinese cleaver sometimes when not using the flexy chef knife.

[///M5 2,833]

Stop fucking around and buy mass gainers. I know you say you want to keep it natural, but there is nothing natural about eating 2 sticks of butter or drinking 2 cups of olive oil. Based on the shit I see you putting in your body I would say at this rate you are doing massive damage to your digestive and pulmonary systems.

You can throw back 5Kcals in 20 minutes with gainers.

Butter no, olive oil, yes. Drinking it is a stretch, but it's pretty easy to eat more than a cup in a sitting. We go through probably 10-20 gallons a year in the house. I am not into it for calories either, just good eats.

[///M5 2,833]

Half gallon of milk for before lunch almost every day. Huge lunches. 2 double whoppers no problem.

3-6 fried egg sandwiches for breakfast.

Every meal was basically 2 meals though. And then pounding snacks all day.

Sounds like me on a day when I put 100 miles on the sled. Pretty much the only lifting or exercise I get, lol.

[///M5 2,833]

And of course it isn't whoppers. Beer for a snack. I think like a bavarian though and classify beer as food, not a beverage.

[///M5 2,833]

And I know they whole maltodextrin argument about how it works in the belly, but it is still inconsistent for time of digestion.

What's the argument? I have some Tapioca Maltodextrin here. Let's you make fun powders which fuck with people when you serve them

[ssh 924]

Oh and I'd thought I let you know Sean that all that butter didn't sit well. I drank 0.5 stick, felt fine. Few hours later another 0.5 stick, felt fine. Few hours later another 0.5 stick. Hour or two go by then I felt queezy. Took a two hour nap, woke up, and puked everything up. Literally went from 4500kcal to like 1000kcal rofl.

So for the next week I'm going to eat a 1/4 stick, and slowly ramp it up to 1 stick, and I'm going to spread it throughout the entire day to hopefully give my digestive system a break per-say.

Clearly this is a ridiculous idea all together, and I should just eat more real food (which I would if I could, but mentally I can't), so I'm compromising.

I'm glad you at least post your ideas....terrible as I think they are. Amusing.

What didn't you like about the way I make hot chocolate. 3 pints of heavy cream is close to 4500. If you can't find real heavy it may be 5 pints. Still yummy versus wtf.

You were making hot chocolate stefan? Shit I thought you were just eating butter.

Cream is the only way to go.

Hot chocolate + butter.

[ssh 924]

If I were you I'd come up with a few menu's. Something where you eat 8/10 different things in a day. Each of the things could have an alternative or 2. Gives you a way of having 20 options throughout the day but somewhat always in the same way. Allows you to measure and have variety all at the same times. Figure out when you can stomach the most intake and of what type and choose to eat that during that portion of the day.

Not sure from a gaining perspective if a big meal is good before bed or if it's better first. Also not sure if you are like me and the more you eat for BF the more you eat the rest of the day. Weighing that in your plan would help.

From a weight gaining perspective eating before bed is a complete non issue. Kcal in Kcal out when it comes to pure weight gain factors.

That being said from an anabolic perspective it is HIGHLY preferable to have fat and protein before bed.

It is also highly preferable to have fast carbs and fast protein in the morning. This takes advantage of our hormone release cycles.

Stefan, there is one thing I think I should touch on. The human body can only digest X amount of fat, protein, and even carbs(though we can process way way way way way way way more carbs in the same amount of time as the other two). When you "flood" your GI with protein or fat one of 2 things happen, you get sick(happened to you) or it just goes through your body undigested. You may not always notice it coming out though because it does change. You puked it up when you GI revolted against trying to process it. The fact you didn't get it into the intestines is also a bit of a tell take sign you should try easier to digest foods, and spread it out over a longer period of the day. It doesn't just come out the way we ate it though so some people don't notice....

****gross notice for those with weak tum tums***

Case in point, if you ever have a big dump that sticks to the side of the bowl, it is usually caused by fat that didn't get absorbed or digested properly. This isn't always true, but if you notice it after certain meals, it's an indicator. Same if it smells chemically. Most describe it as an acetone smell. That is more common with the liver not being able to cope with it, usually due to liver shut down. It also it pretty common in babies to have what some moms(chicks go figure) as nail polish remover smell. This can happen if you get wasted drunk and have a tripple whopper with extra fat. Your liver decides it has better poison to work on than the fat nutrients and doesn't cough up the bile needed. The smell or bowl sticking shit isn't always a big deal, but indicates to unabsorbed and not digested properly fat. Could be you just ate too much.

If you eat a lot of fiber this can be masked however. You would probably have the highest volume shits on the planet made of a nasty froth of insoluble fiber and fat, but some would just crap per normal.

That's what I learned, so I'm going to try it again with less butter and over a larger time span.

[ssh 924]

Meh, I think the argument is just another reason for people to say their way is better. But what matters is the end result. These companies putting out the gainers are doing research to find out what delivers the quickest and best results. You can use Body Fortress gainers and switch to a well established higher end company like BSN and see a difference in results. I personally like many of the BSN options, and use them fairly regularly if I feel the need.

IMO if the goal is to achieve a certain result, a set goal, there is no reason a good supplement is a bad option for a short term. Get to that set goal, and don't keep raising the bar, then go back to the natural method. I am not saying don't keep raising your personal bar, but set the goal you want to achieve with supplements, then step off and go the original route.

When I get going with my winter routine (bulk) I see far greater results then Stefan is seeing now with a little help from BSN. I can throw on 2-3 pounds in a week at the start with ~3000 calories derived from supps and another 2-2500 from food, then slow down generally after I gain 10-15 pounds. I think ~220 is where my body wants to be, but I generally get up to 225 before I trim down. IMO cutting is really where you need to go more natural. But I have found the best results with a bulk in winter, and a cut in spring. You need to build the mass first, then define it.

I think his argument with gainers is the high carb/sugar content. And I know they whole maltodextrin argument about how it works in the belly, but it is still inconsistent for time of digestion.

Personally I think the guy could use a HUGE boost in insulin from sugar/carbs in general and would see AMAZING growth with how often he works out.

But I do understand the fat being perceived as a healthier option.

Meh, I think the argument is just another reason for people to say their way is better. But what matters is the end result. These companies putting out the gainers are doing research to find out what delivers the quickest and best results. You can use Body Fortress gainers and switch to a well established higher end company like BSN and see a difference in results. I personally like many of the BSN options, and use them fairly regularly if I feel the need.

IMO if the goal is to achieve a certain result, a set goal, there is no reason a good supplement is a bad option for a short term. Get to that set goal, and don't keep raising the bar, then go back to the natural method. I am not saying don't keep raising your personal bar, but set the goal you want to achieve with supplements, then step off and go the original route.

When I get going with my winter routine (bulk) I see far greater results then Stefan is seeing now with a little help from BSN. I can throw on 2-3 pounds in a week at the start with ~3000 calories derived from supps and another 2-2500 from food, then slow down generally after I gain 10-15 pounds. I think ~220 is where my body wants to be, but I generally get up to 225 before I trim down. IMO cutting is really where you need to go more natural. But I have found the best results with a bulk in winter, and a cut in spring. You need to build the mass first, then define it.

Let me lay everything out so less speculation can be made.

eat something light in morning.

few hours later I drink 1L water + 30g whey + 30g dextrose

ten minutes later I start my workout, and for the next 1.5hours I drink 1L water + sodium + 60g dextrose

After workout I drink another 1L water + 60g dextrose + 30g whey + sodium

shower

For the next hour I eat carbs + protein

After an hour or so I start drinking whole milk which lasts for the rest of the day, and eat other shit.

Currently I'm getting in approx 3300kcal, and for the last three months it has netted higher strength, but likely still limited due to less muscle mass grown (no substantial weight change, and bf% doesn't seem any different to the eye). In the past when I could drink an entire gallon of whole milk daily without lactose issues I was getting around 4000kcal, and after a month or so the gains were noticeable. So at this point it's simply more kcal I need.

I recognize the use of carbs for refilling muscle glycogen stores, and anabolic response from high insulin levels, but it's not my plan to eat a shit-load of "sugar" to get the rest of the kcal I need.

I could also argue all day long that I don't believe there is anything wrong about eating that much butter in terms of cardiovascular health, but I feel it would be wasted energy so I'll simply shrug it off.

I don't give a shit about "all natural," I just eat what I feel is healthy, and that happens to include butter.

Also fwiw I tested my RMR with an o2->co2 meter: 1600kcal.

[ssh 924]

This is basically what I use:

http://www2.knifecen...-Damascus-Blade

Here is mine.

http://www.chefknive...yabi-7000d.html

8" also VG10 with a little dimascus touch to the outside.

Good point, I wouldn't recommend a 10" for you Stefan. Your hands are too small. For me an 8" is dangerous as riding it on my knuckles could mean cutting them since they are so high off the cutting board. I need the extra vertical in my knife. Exactly why Hung uses a Chinese cleaver sometimes when not using the flexy chef knife.

Word. If I do buy a knife it'll be in a few months, so I'll have plenty of time to look around.

[///M5 2,833]

When I bought mine I brought something like 10lbs of carrots to the store and julienned them all. Finally found the one I wanted. Fit is king. Blade is secondary.

[ssh 924]

When I bought mine I brought something like 10lbs of carrots to the store and julienned them all. Finally found the one I wanted. Fit is king. Blade is secondary.

Any reason not to test with potatoes? I always have bags of them sprouting.

[///M5 2,833]

When I bought mine I brought something like 10lbs of carrots to the store and julienned them all. Finally found the one I wanted. Fit is king. Blade is secondary.

Any reason not to test with potatoes? I always have bags of them sprouting.

They are easier to cut. Can't say that I've ever julienned a potato either. Sprouting ones may be a bit soft and sticky to have as much consistency as the carrot.

[ssh 924]

I'm probably going to regret this, but whatever.

Seth,

I'm going to skip the initial digestion and absorption of lipids as it's not entirely needed. Lipids, cholesterol, and lipid-soluble nutrients end up being packaged into chylomicrons. Chylomicrons travel through the lymphatic system supplying fat, nutrients, and cholesterol to tissue. Excess chylomicrons are picked up by the LDL receptor to the liver. Once in the liver these lipids, cholesterol, and lipid-soluble nutrients are packaged into lipoprotein particles. The shell of the lipoprotein particles is composed of phospolipids and protein. This allows it to carry non-water soluble lipids through the water soluble blood stream. The first type of lipoprotein to leave the liver is VLDL, very low density lipoprotein. VLDL primarily contains triglycerides with a lesser amount of cholesterol and lipid-soluble nutrients. VLDL travels through blood stream supplying fat, nutrients, and cholesterol to tissue alike the chylomicrons. The remnants of the VLDL is primarily cholesterol, and is now considered LDL, low density lipoprotein. The remaining LDL that isn't taken up by cells is now taken back to the liver—whatever LDL that isn't taken up tends to oxidize. Phagocytosis occurs where monocytes begin eating up the oxidized LDL, and this creates foam cells. Over time foam cells accumulate into a fatty streak. Once fatty streak gets large enough it's known as an intermediate lesion continuing to enlarge and accumulate collagen into a fibrous lesion, plaque. As time progresses this plaque can will build up occlusively or nonocclusively. The plaque accumulation toward the lumen would be considered an occlusive lesion (common to cause chest pain, require coronary bypass, etc). Non-occlusive lesions tend to be more unstable, and more likely to rupture causing blood clots and heart attacks.

In simple terms CVD occurs when LDL particles become damaged due to oxidation. So the general belief is that if you keep the quantity of LDL particles floating around low than one's chances for oxidation to occur are lowered, and less likely to have CVD. So eat less fat and less cholesterol for lower LDL. Your doctor tells you you want low LDL, and high HDL.

Anecdotally and scientifically studied there are large groups of humans that eat large amounts of fat, their LDL is high, yet they don't suffer from CVD. Is it the type of fat they eat, their lifestyle, or their “special” genetics that allow for this? I'm willing to bet it's the combination of the first two.

So if it's possible to have high LDL, yet not suffer CVD then why isn't LDL oxidation occurring, and why aren't lesions forming? Further research into LDL shows that all LDL isn't the same, but rather there are subclasses: large sized LDL, and small dense LDL. To my current knowledge the average blood work does not differentiate LDL particle size, for this one needs a VAP test. From what I've researched small dense LDL particles are significantly more prone to oxidation in comparison to large LDL particles.

From everything I've been able to get my hands on saturated fat does increase one's LDL, but it increases the large LDL particles, and not the small dense LDL particles. It's also known that saturated fatty acids in direct comparison to unsaturated fatty acids and trans fatty acids are less prone to oxidation.

So personally I don't feel I'm increasing my risk for CVD by eating lots of butter. If I was drinking canola oil, vegetable oil, palm oil than I would have a different opinion.

I literally just sat down for two hours and typed this out off the top of my head hence no references, so take it as you will.

Perhaps I'm entirely wrong, and will die young, but in either event you should at least know I've spent a significant amount of time researching such things before simply agreeing “yes xxx is bad, and yyy is good.”

If it makes you feel any better if you ask any large health organization or food manufacturer they will agree with your point of view.