Welcome to the IHoP

[The enD 467]

[dem beats 1,223]

Obviously both of us agree that whole foods are important. On a side branch, I also practice fasting which is entirely different then diet, and you guys find that to be negative. That's fine with me.

What do you feel is the benefit of the fasting technique?

[nem 2,019]

I have seen something similar before. I love the idea and may one day do it.

[dem beats 1,223]

And I don't really like using one's experience as instant creditability, but he's actually studied the science, AND put it to the test, so I'll listen more to that then someone whose been going to the gym for 20 years, and hasn't learned shit.

....I'll assume that this wasn't a slight to me, but it sounds nearly 100% directed to me.  When you say put it to the test you mean?  I spent 2 years taking my blood after meals to find out insulin response.  Adjusting to see what would yield results for my desired goals.  Weekly blood tests to measure GH levels for quite some time, then monthly.  I had to be checked for what they thought was cancer, so I had them do endocrine and IGF levels.  It ended up free for me so why not?What I found to be true with me in blood work was true in real world application.  If you don't try the most basic principal of eating many clean meals a day of balanced food then you simply do not know how it works for you.  I'm not saying you should be a sheep and do as everyone else does.  What I am saying is there isn't a magic bullet.  The wizard of oz is just a midget behind a curtain yelling really loud.  What works is grinding regular healthy meals and lots of time in the gym.  Then tweak from there to best suit your needs.  Sean has more fun with his method and eats a wild variety.  I find that tough, so I eat 6 boiled chicken breasts a day with vegis and oatmeal or barley.Being married and working more than I have hours in a day has made me lazy.  Also depression makes me fall off the horse and struggle.  But any problems I have or anyone I have trained with can tell you it's only lack of dedication that makes the results sloppy.

I could see where my last statement may have made you thought I was talking about you, but I wasn't. Just saying that just because someone has done the same thing for a long time doesn't always make them an "authority" on the subject to me.

I agree with that 100%. The compare/contrast comment is what made me curious as the point to the statement.

[dem beats 1,223]

I have seen something similar before. I love the idea and may one day do it.

I will never leave your place if you do.

[nem 2,019]

Panama VS Mexico

[nem 2,019]

I have seen something similar before. I love the idea and may one day do it.

I will never leave your place if you do.

Sounds like a BGE cook out then!

[The enD 467]

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Maybe we should try to send most of the lovely ladies to the RTMS.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

[lithium 358]

I get the premise of what you guys are talking about for the diets but in both the eat stop eat and in low carb situations you are using extreme measures to condition out bad behavior. In fact for a lot of peopleI would recommend lower or no carb diets. Or only eating from x time to y time. However in every case it's because of practical reasons and not because it's the best diet. It's all pragmatic and not nearly the most efficient. It is however a suitable means to an end.

In every single case the consumption of many meals throughout the day with a properely balanced menu is the best format for our bodies to perform optimally. However without discipline it almost always leads to poor food choices.

I have read more studies and more books than I can even name. I've helped work out diets for dozens of people for different goals and work out programs. I ran a nutrition store for a couple years and have been in the community for much much longer. From triathlons to competitive runners and peddlers tl power lifters and body builders the optimization of diet is minute from he basic plan of 6 meals a day. Some need more carbs at certain times some don't.

I have case studied myself on measuring an exact meal structure. Then adding and subtracting one variable at a time and testing. I ate the same meals basically for every meal for 2 years. Sunday's I took of and at as I pleased so long as I grazed all day. This was only for mental health reasons.

What did I find? That no diet produces better results than many balanced meals a day. From there it's merely fine tuning to your results. My room mate who was already "lifting" plateaud. After a nudge in proper work out protocol and diet help gained 30 pounds and lost body fat. Bench went from 130 to 250 for 6-8 reps. If he listened and ate properly he could sink into single digit fat percentages, but that isn't his primary goal and for him the results are good enough.

Love your premise. I tried it myself and decided.

Was going to post before, but personally I think you guys should NOT read any of the books you've got Stefan. The idea's that I hear you come up with regularly are seriously biased and strange. I tried to make it simple before and pointed out how to eat, Matt is pretty much confirming the same thing.

of course the most critical is to listen to your body.

my body just told me to eat two dozen salt water taffy's

[ssh 924]

Obviously both of us agree that whole foods are important. On a side branch, I also practice fasting which is entirely different then diet, and you guys find that to be negative. That's fine with me.

What do you feel is the benefit of the fasting technique?

increase in GH levels

increase in protein synthesis

increase in protein-3 levels in muscle

increase in lipolysis for fat burning

increased insulin sensitivity

improved autophagy

increase in bdnf levels

Just some stuff off the top of my head.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

I fast sometimes too; if it's one of those sit on my ass all day doing nothing days I'll eat next to nothing

[ssh 924]

I fast sometimes too; if it's one of those sit on my ass all day doing nothing days I'll eat next to nothing

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

I also absolutely don't understand protein shakes. If you want protein drink a bowl of miso soup.

Objectively, if you include the costs of gasoline, wear and tear on the automobile together with the price of the ingredients themselves, protein shakes are cheaper for me. Subjectively, I find protein shakes simpler/more convenient.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I also absolutely don't understand protein shakes. If you want protein drink a bowl of miso soup.

Objectively, if you include the costs of gasoline, wear and tear on the automobile together with the price of the ingredients themselves, protein shakes are cheaper for me. Subjectively, I find protein shakes simpler/more convenient.

I need the greater concentration of higher absorption levels of protein with in 20 minutes of my work out. Also, not eating enough meat.

[ssh 924]

One thing I should also point out is that I never claimed any of it to be some end-all way of eating, or that you must do it.

I fast, and I eat whole foods after 1pm on T,Th,F,Sat,Sun. M and W I don't eat til 4:30pm due to classes. I don't eat three big meals, as I wouldn't be able to get enough food in. So from 1-10 or 430-10 I eat until I meet my goals for kcal and protein.

I'm not exactly ketogenic either considering a gallon of milk has approx 200grams of carbs.

I'd much rather meet my kcals and protein then sell myself short, and in my case I don't have to worry much about trying to lose body fat (atm).

[///M5 2,833]

I was referring to Sean, not you Matt. It wasn't a red herring considering he simply said not to read the book, and he didn't know what the book was. It isn't related to fasting, just paleo diets.

Doesn't matter what it's related to. A study that doesn't lead to a theorem isn't finished and therefore in accurate. It is way to easy in biological science to prove what you want. No matter what you find, you will find something with as much credibility that says exactly the opposite. Pretty much one of the most disgusting industries there is. Of course they get to prey on the mildly or uninformed and everyone has health issues so the potential customer list is huge.

It's pretty akin to the internet. You can surely learn something, but if you aren't smart enough to skim the BS then what you learn will be crap. I am definitely not implying that you aren't smart enough, but just voicing my general distaste for everything akin to the book you are defending.

As for my don't read it comment. I'd say the same about SMD, Crapaudio etc. At the same time if you find it amusing, carry on. Just don't expect what you are learning to be so much a learning experience. If you want one of those, start to read about how different cultures diet. Much more interesting and IMO easier to apply to your own person to extend your life and make you happier in the process.

[ssh 924]

I think it's a good idea to try and get your protein from food, but if your lacking some amount then supplementation is definitely awesome.

I also like mixing some protein and bcaa before a workout.

[///M5 2,833]

Obviously both of us agree that whole foods are important. On a side branch, I also practice fasting which is entirely different then diet, and you guys find that to be negative. That's fine with me.

If you fast to cleanse and start fresh it's understandable, if not it's definitely damaging.

[///M5 2,833]

Just saying that just because someone has done the same thing for a long time doesn't always make them an "authority" on the subject to me.

Actually it makes them an idiot for not trying something else.

[///M5 2,833]

I also absolutely don't understand protein shakes. If you want protein drink a bowl of miso soup.

Objectively, if you include the costs of gasoline, wear and tear on the automobile together with the price of the ingredients themselves, protein shakes are cheaper for me. Subjectively, I find protein shakes simpler/more convenient.

Huh? Miso last in your fridge as long as you can pretty much keep it (ie year+), kombu and bonito are dried and the same in your cupboard. As for more convenient perhaps, but the Japanese would say the opposite. They choose to eat it for breakfast for a reason. It's uber fast (pretty much required for breakfast) and a simple serving has something like 40% of your daily required protein. Rather easy to chug a bunch and it tastes yummy compared to protein shakes. Add to that it doesn't give you gas and I'd consider it more convenient.

[///M5 2,833]

I think it's a good idea to try and get your protein from food, but if your lacking some amount then supplementation is definitely awesome.

I also like mixing some protein and bcaa before a workout.

Supplements are bandaids. The real question is how hard will you try?

[lithium 358]

Obviously both of us agree that whole foods are important. On a side branch, I also practice fasting which is entirely different then diet, and you guys find that to be negative. That's fine with me.

If you fast to cleanse and start fresh it's understandable, if not it's definitely damaging.

just curious, whats the general step-by-step process to cleanse?