Welcome to the IHoP

[///M5 2,833]

My 2 year is comming up.

1 year to the family though.

Hmmmmm

[dem beats 1,223]

We purchased a house, and we were already engaged. We had a micro ceremony with her parents and my godmother (aunt).

If we didn't and we would have purchased the house with me putting money down it would have been a tax nightmare. We only waited the year so we could plan a bigger wedding anyway.

[///M5 2,833]

I remember, just hmmming

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

A Minnesota woman gave birth to a baby boy while literally driving herself to the hospital. The father, who can't drive due to seizures, took the wheel so she could pull down her pants after her water broke.

Amanda McBride, the mother, was working the late shift at the local factory when she began to suffer contractions. Realizing what was happening - the 29-year old has had two other children - she dashed out to her car and drove to pick up her boyfriend. Her water broke halfway between their home and the hospital. The father suggested they should call 911 and wait for an ambulance, but Amanda figured they could drive to the hospital in less time than it would take for an ambulance to reach them. After the baby popped out, the father continued to steer as Amanda cranked her 2005 Chevy Cobalt's heater to keep the newborn warm. The baby boy, Joseph, survived the experience in good health.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Anything 9mm or better works just fine for defense; usually though the larger calibers are more forgiving with bad aim. With 12 gauge birdshot, for example, you really don't have to aim at all; just point it in the general vicinity and pull the trigger

The 9 mm vs .45 argument is long and tired so I will digress but the point is that a moving target is SO HARD to hit. Unless they are coming directly at you, in handgun defense situations you get your sites lined up and squeeze at the center body of mass. As of right now, the hydrostatic shock factor from a .45 is greater than a 9mm. The 9mm will penitrate more. With modern JHP they both do good jobs. However in a situation where a dude is on meth, I would take the .45. If I need more than a few shots I should have brought a rifle.

I didn't mean 9mm vs. .45ACP, I meant any handgun caliber 9mm or better (more powerful). Be it 9mm, .357 SIG, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .400 Cor-Bon, 10mm, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .440 Cor-Bon, .45 ACP, .45 GAP, .454 Casull, .460 S&W, .480 Ruger, or .500 S&W, any one of those cartridges will do the job. Bigger calibers leave bigger holes, so you don't have to aim a .45 as well as you do a 9mm to do the same amount of damage.

The birdshot comment was a joke, by the way.

I think we're both on the same page...although I could be wrong...

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Using a .500 S&W Magnum for self defense is so completely overkill it makes me want to try it; 350 gr. @ 1800+ FPS? Yes please

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Left to right: .460 S&W Magnum, .454 Casull, .44 Magnum, .45ACP, .22LR

.460 S&W Magnum revolvers are neat because you can use the .460, the .454, or .45 Colt cartridges in them

.500's are about the same length as the .460's if I'm not mistaken

[topgun 262]

.44 Mag...if you have the means I highly recommend it; especially in short barrel lever action form. Wooooweeeeeee

Lever action? Ewe. I'm open to anything though. Other than feeling like a cowboy why do you like it?

Also I was thinking to get the 44 mag as a nighstand revolver not rifle.

I've been thinking the .383 lapua as a great option for a rifle instead of the .50 bmg though. It will fire WAY more rounds without problems, and it's a bit cheeper. Won't derail a train though.....

If you want a long range rifle, I think i would be looking heavily at 7mm stuff.

[topgun 262]

That is equal to about 4.5 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin or bad guy.

Not nearly enough.

If you're aiming properly it is

Sure, could it kill a guy? Yes. Is it a worthless gun for self defense and only good for snakes? Yes.

The standard amount of penetration is 11" or greater for a defensive gun.

[dem beats 1,223]

from wiki

.460 S&W can achieve nearly 2900 ft·lbf of energy by driving a 360 grain bullet at 1900 ft/s.[3] For comparison .500 S&W Magnum offers slightly more power driving a 350 grain bullet at 1975 ft/s for a total of 3031ft·lbf

[dem beats 1,223]

If you want a long range rifle, I think i would be looking heavily at 7mm stuff.

I have... I want to be a bit unique though. Something with a tugboat of energy.

My AR10 is great with the .308(7.62) But I want something accurate and bolt action so I can feel all snipery.

Also I can't find cost effective 4 round clips for hunting for the AR10, thus I couldn't hunt with it if I wanted to. SooooOOOooOoOo of course I "need" another gun. The roomate has a 7mm Mag and that means I need something bigger, of course.

I have recently considered the .338 lapua as it can produce > 2 times the energy.

Another option is to buy a few other complete uppers for my AR10 with long barrels, but again I would bet that most any quality bolt action could still out MOA the best auto.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

That is equal to about 4.5 inches of penetration into ballistic gelatin or bad guy.

Not nearly enough.

If you're aiming properly it is

Sure, could it kill a guy? Yes. Is it a worthless gun for self defense and only good for snakes? Yes.

Basically, yes.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

from wiki

.460 S&W can achieve nearly 2900 ft·lbf of energy by driving a 360 grain bullet at 1900 ft/s.[3] For comparison .500 S&W Magnum offers slightly more power driving a 350 grain bullet at 1975 ft/s for a total of 3031ft·lbf

So I was off by a few hundred FPS, shoot me

[///M5 2,833]

Loan me a gun

[dem beats 1,223]

from wiki

.460 S&W can achieve nearly 2900 ft·lbf of energy by driving a 360 grain bullet at 1900 ft/s.[3] For comparison .500 S&W Magnum offers slightly more power driving a 350 grain bullet at 1975 ft/s for a total of 3031ft·lbf

So I was off by a few hundred FPS, shoot me

You give Sean the gun. I more posted that as in interesting fact that the difference in powa is minimal at best from the .500. Being able to shoot much less expensive rounds though with the .460 you mentioned is a GREAT thing.

It's weird that a .45 colt would fire well though.... considering it's .01 smaller.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

from wiki

.460 S&W can achieve nearly 2900 ft·lbf of energy by driving a 360 grain bullet at 1900 ft/s.[3] For comparison .500 S&W Magnum offers slightly more power driving a 350 grain bullet at 1975 ft/s for a total of 3031ft·lbf

So I was off by a few hundred FPS, shoot me

You give Sean the gun. I more posted that as in interesting fact that the difference in powa is minimal at best from the .500. Being able to shoot much less expensive rounds though with the .460 you mentioned is a GREAT thing.

It's weird that a .45 colt would fire well though.... considering it's .01 smaller.

Well the the 460 was based on the .454 Casull, and the .454 Casull design was based on the .45 Colt so usually the 460's are able to shoot all three. Double check with the manufacturer, though.

That's what I like about the .44's and the .357's, you can plink with the much less expensive Special rounds.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Loan me a gun

You give Sean the gun.

Fine, I see how it is. I'll just take my ball and go home, then

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

I have literally seen (yes my eyes in person) someone who took bordshot to the face from 10-15 feet away.

12 gauge or 20 gauge?

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

still though, a 460 for home defense is beyond overkill

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Wikipedia sure does have some nice pictures:

Left to right: 30-06, 7.62x39, .454 Casull, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .38 Special, .45 ACP, 9mm, .380, .22 Long Rifle

[topgun 262]

If you want a long range rifle, I think i would be looking heavily at 7mm stuff.

I have... I want to be a bit unique though. Something with a tugboat of energy.

My AR10 is great with the .308(7.62) But I want something accurate and bolt action so I can feel all snipery.

Also I can't find cost effective 4 round clips for hunting for the AR10, thus I couldn't hunt with it if I wanted to. SooooOOOooOoOo of course I "need" another gun. The roomate has a 7mm Mag and that means I need something bigger, of course.

I have recently considered the .338 lapua as it can produce > 2 times the energy.

Another option is to buy a few other complete uppers for my AR10 with long barrels, but again I would bet that most any quality bolt action could still out MOA the best auto.

Simple, cut down a Magpul LR20 mag, or contact MidwestPX.com He has cut them down before, pin them to 10rd for California, etc, etc.

Energy isn't everything, still need ability to buck the wind, and then have to know how to run it, have the optics to run that far out, etc.

[topgun 262]

Bullet selection > *

[topgun 262]

If you really want to run your AR long range, rebarrel it to 6.5 Creedmoor. The MOA game is kinda pointless, not many people have the ability to shoot 1/2-1/3moa past oh, 50ft.

I know someone who built a AR in 6.5 Creedmoor, worked up a load for it, then sold it because it is flat out easier to shoot a bolt gun at long range than a gas gun due to the recoil impulse and the reaction of the rifle.

[topgun 262]

Few thoughts on the .338 Lapua though.

Kyle Defoor: Prairie Gun Works Timberwolf .338 Lapua

[dem beats 1,223]

I have literally seen (yes my eyes in person) someone who took bordshot to the face from 10-15 feet away.

12 gauge or 20 gauge?

12. Shootin bird in the woods. He went to the ER and didn't even get any stitches.