Welcome to the IHoP

[Godsmack 361]

fuck the yanks, should be another game. robbed in game 2 and no retribution. imagine fucking that. not only do they buy a title with players, but with umps to.

I know Ryan is going to hate me too for quoting, but I have watched the Yankees play for my entire life, so I think I have a good grasp on the situation.

You're an 'O's fan and a U2 Fan. I know better.

Two entities I have followed my entire life, from a very young age. Pre-Cal Ripken and pre-Joshua Tree. But it is known across the league that the Yankees get more favorable calls then any other, Red Sox a close second. Not a bash against the Yankees, but the system and the people who continue it. But it is the same thing with the Patriots and the Steelers in the NFL, along with Duke and UNC in mens college basketball, as I am sure there are plenty in the good ole' boy system in college football too.

Can we say Texas, Alabama, and Florida? ALL Good ol' boy teams.

And we may get some calls, but every team does. Ours are just............better.

J

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Random IHOP survey:

Which appliances are better suited for electricity and which are better for gas, Dryers, Ovens, Heater/Furnace, Water Heater, et al?

[Godsmack 361]

Peng, IMO water heater, oven, heater/furnace are all made for Gas. The ONLY electric item for me would be the dryer.

J

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Sleepy already.

[Tmax98 3]

just bombed a test

oh well the teacher is a dick!

now time for MNF and some brew

[Tmax98 3]

Top^ muthafuckas

[NB50 206]

Athlete dies while running in Baltimore Marathon. No, he wasn't shot to death.

They actually run through a good part of the city. Pisses me off because Baltimore is no where near as bad as Detroit or Atlanta or Cleveland or Cincinnati or DC (yes I have been to all) etc. but because of "The Wire" it is grouped in with that type of city.

Hey, Detroit ain't that bad.

Probably should have added, there are just some parts you don't go to.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Athlete dies while running in Baltimore Marathon. No, he wasn't shot to death.

They actually run through a good part of the city. Pisses me off because Baltimore is no where near as bad as Detroit or Atlanta or Cleveland or Cincinnati or DC (yes I have been to all) etc. but because of "The Wire" it is grouped in with that type of city.

Hey, Detroit ain't that bad.

Detroit is a shithole.

[NB50 206]

Athlete dies while running in Baltimore Marathon. No, he wasn't shot to death.

They actually run through a good part of the city. Pisses me off because Baltimore is no where near as bad as Detroit or Atlanta or Cleveland or Cincinnati or DC (yes I have been to all) etc. but because of "The Wire" it is grouped in with that type of city.

Hey, Detroit ain't that bad.

Detroit is a shithole.

Well yea, but it could have been a beautiful city. There is a lot of old buildings that had a really nice structural beauty to them they just weren't kept up.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

So I was going to turn the 220v for my rangetop into 220v for my saw and a couple 110v's for the garage.

Funny wiring though.

1 black

1 black with red stripe

1 big fucking ground

I go downstairs and the "ground" is attached to the neutral on the electrical panel.

Don't the two hots mean that it is "2 phase". I figured single phase should be 1 neutral and 1 hot.

Also curious if I can use the "ground-like" neutral as a neutral for the 110v circuits (through a panel of course). Just doesn't seem safe to me to have a neutral without a casing on it. In particular when it supports 40A at 220v.

Lastly, the saw has two of the sideways terminals on the plug. Does this mean that it only gets the two hots and not a neutral?

*obviously knows nothing about AC power in houses and while I did search rather quickly considering this isn't like I expected I thought I'd post*

**a bottle and a half of wine will keep me from doing anything with it tonight anyways **

Ground and Neutral are tied together back at the box, just the way it works. You should have 120v from one hot to ground, and 120v from the other hot to ground, and 220v across the hots.

FYI: If you were wiring a 3-phase piece of equipment and it turns backwards, you just have to switch any two wires and it'll switch rotational direction.

So how does it make sense to have a ground and a neutral, but to have them wired together.

What confused me is that there is no neutral in this case, just ground but being it is connected to the neutral it looked like no ground. Sort of screws me on the make 1 -220v and 2-110v circuits out of it

You can only have single or three phase. Single phase is used in residental. You have 3 wires coming into your house from the transformer. The single phase 220 (the two "hot" leads and the neutral, which technically is the grounded terminal. The neutral is a thrid line off the transformer to halve the voltage from 220. If you measure from one lead to neutral or ground, you get half the potential (120V). IF you measure across the two leads you have 220V.

Now, with three phase is you measure across any of the two leads, you'll have your voltage. Let's take 480V 3 phase. Measure across L1 (line1) and L2(line2) and you get 480V. Measure either across L3 and you'll get the same. Now measure across ground and you'll get half potential or 240V. Now, if you wanted to get 480V single phase from the 3 phase, you'd simply run 2 of the lines. This can be done, but it leads to instability across the lines with the final leg not being used.

Now, the neutral is simply there for residential to halve the voltage. Without it, the only way to halve the voltage is to go to ground. This leaves no return path for current, so you see the futility here.

With residential, many neutrals are bonded to ground simply so any stray current can go to ground potential. The ground potential is nothing more than a safety measure. Ideally there is no potential across the ground, unless there is stray current, or a lighting strike.

Now, for your situation, you will have 2 hots and one ground. The hots will be either side of the service (L1 and L2) and the ground will just come from the ground. IF you needed to get 110 from here, you'd have to run a neutral in which case you could use either line to get there.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

so fucking sore and the sky hasn't cleared LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO but by hook or by crook I will have the interior of the E55 cleaned and detailed by tomorrow, just you watch

DONE

*gets an aneurysm and dies*

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

Wheelchair fencing...who knew...

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Athlete dies while running in Baltimore Marathon. No, he wasn't shot to death.

They actually run through a good part of the city. Pisses me off because Baltimore is no where near as bad as Detroit or Atlanta or Cleveland or Cincinnati or DC (yes I have been to all) etc. but because of "The Wire" it is grouped in with that type of city.

Hey, Detroit ain't that bad.

Detroit is a shithole.

Well yea, but it could have been a beautiful city. There is a lot of old buildings that had a really nice structural beauty to them they just weren't kept up.

It wasn't always that way, but that's just how it is now. It's like the west side of my town. It started to go downhill and it's just been getting progressively worse. The local politicians don't give a shit, becuase the rest of the city is continually developing, so they just leave the West side alone. It's sad.

[lithium 358]

interesting stuff here Edited October 13, 2009 by lithium

[///M5 2,833]

gas across the board is usually cheaper

[///M5 2,833]

So I was going to turn the 220v for my rangetop into 220v for my saw and a couple 110v's for the garage.

Funny wiring though.

1 black

1 black with red stripe

1 big fucking ground

I go downstairs and the "ground" is attached to the neutral on the electrical panel.

Don't the two hots mean that it is "2 phase". I figured single phase should be 1 neutral and 1 hot.

Also curious if I can use the "ground-like" neutral as a neutral for the 110v circuits (through a panel of course). Just doesn't seem safe to me to have a neutral without a casing on it. In particular when it supports 40A at 220v.

Lastly, the saw has two of the sideways terminals on the plug. Does this mean that it only gets the two hots and not a neutral?

*obviously knows nothing about AC power in houses and while I did search rather quickly considering this isn't like I expected I thought I'd post*

**a bottle and a half of wine will keep me from doing anything with it tonight anyways **

Ground and Neutral are tied together back at the box, just the way it works. You should have 120v from one hot to ground, and 120v from the other hot to ground, and 220v across the hots.

FYI: If you were wiring a 3-phase piece of equipment and it turns backwards, you just have to switch any two wires and it'll switch rotational direction.

So how does it make sense to have a ground and a neutral, but to have them wired together.

What confused me is that there is no neutral in this case, just ground but being it is connected to the neutral it looked like no ground. Sort of screws me on the make 1 -220v and 2-110v circuits out of it

You can only have single or three phase. Single phase is used in residental. You have 3 wires coming into your house from the transformer. The single phase 220 (the two "hot" leads and the neutral, which technically is the grounded terminal. The neutral is a thrid line off the transformer to halve the voltage from 220. If you measure from one lead to neutral or ground, you get half the potential (120V). IF you measure across the two leads you have 220V.

Now, with three phase is you measure across any of the two leads, you'll have your voltage. Let's take 480V 3 phase. Measure across L1 (line1) and L2(line2) and you get 480V. Measure either across L3 and you'll get the same. Now measure across ground and you'll get half potential or 240V. Now, if you wanted to get 480V single phase from the 3 phase, you'd simply run 2 of the lines. This can be done, but it leads to instability across the lines with the final leg not being used.

Now, the neutral is simply there for residential to halve the voltage. Without it, the only way to halve the voltage is to go to ground. This leaves no return path for current, so you see the futility here.

With residential, many neutrals are bonded to ground simply so any stray current can go to ground potential. The ground potential is nothing more than a safety measure. Ideally there is no potential across the ground, unless there is stray current, or a lighting strike.

Now, for your situation, you will have 2 hots and one ground. The hots will be either side of the service (L1 and L2) and the ground will just come from the ground. IF you needed to get 110 from here, you'd have to run a neutral in which case you could use either line to get there.

Thanks.

I asked 4 different "electricians" at home depot and none of them could explain shit. I only wanted to know why and what which you have answered.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

It's easy money.

[///M5 2,833]

They did say that I could use my "ground" as a neutral and would pass code from the 70's+...nearly recommended it.

Sucks because I really can't pull a lead all the way back to the box.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

You don't need a neutral. Just use the wires there and they will work. If the range worked, the saw will work. If anything, I'd move the wire in breaker panel off the neutral and to the ground bus. But then again, you may not have this and it's bonded anyways, so it's not really going to matter.

[///M5 2,833]

The range is 40amp 220v which I was hoping to turn into a pair of 110v circuits for the garage and optionally the 220v for the saw. I know I can get the saw to work, but need a damn neutral to get the 110v...unless you know some trick outside of using said "ground" as a neutral.

[///M5 2,833]

top

[///M5 2,833]

Or if you want to talk me into it

[Tirefryr 1,742]

You could use a small feeder panel with two breakers and a neutral bus to break the large gauge down into smaller. YOu said this "ground" wire is hooked to the neutral, so you already have the neutral. I myself would just go get some romex, a new breaker and run another circuit to the garage if at all possible. It will be easier and you will now have a dedicated circuit for your recepts. I don't know how easy that will be for you though. It will all depend on accessibility.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

gas across the board is usually cheaper

aren't most laundromat dryers gas models?

[///M5 2,833]

You could use a small feeder panel with two breakers and a neutral bus to break the large gauge down into smaller. YOu said this "ground" wire is hooked to the neutral, so you already have the neutral. I myself would just go get some romex, a new breaker and run another circuit to the garage if at all possible. It will be easier and you will now have a dedicated circuit for your recepts. I don't know how easy that will be for you though. It will all depend on accessibility.

Accessibility is non-existent otherwise I wouldn't be thinking of an alternative.