Went to Car Toys today....

[P-Dizzle 1]

your contradicting what the OP said were "sq" subs. So which is it?

And you didn't answer the part about what makes them "sq" subs?

Pardon me and may contradictory.

I guess we need to define our terms before I answer what an "SQ" sub is.

[mattd0344 2]

I wouldn't understimate W7's...

The W7 is a good sub but it is overrated and way overpriced. And NO it is not an SQ sub.

Then what is it? It cant be considered an SPL sub..since soo many people are breaking SPL records with W7's right? Don't get me wrong I wouldn't consider it to be an all out SQ sub but thats what it mainly is. A SQ sub that can get loud but not THAT loud. Thats why ppl always make threads about "I'm looking at buying a W7" and ppl say all of the time, why not look at a Fi Q or an SI Mag...When Q's and Mag's are SQ subs that get pretty loud.

[P-Dizzle 1]

I wouldn't understimate W7's...

The W7 is a good sub but it is overrated and way overpriced. And NO it is not an SQ sub.

Then what is it? It cant be considered an SPL sub..since soo many people are breaking SPL records with W7's right? Don't get me wrong I wouldn't consider it to be an all out SQ sub but thats what it mainly is. A SQ sub that can get loud but not THAT loud. Thats why ppl always make threads about "I'm looking at buying a W7" and ppl say all of the time, why not look at a Fi Q or an SI Mag...When Q's and Mag's are SQ subs that get pretty loud.

A W7 is an LSQ subwoofer. JL has spent too much time and money trying to re-invent the wheel. They built a much better product when they were a just a subwoofer company. An old school W6 will wipe the floor with a W7.

Edited September 26, 2008 by P-Dizzle

[P-Dizzle 1]

I meant LSQ but it won't let me update the post for some reason...

[P-Dizzle 1]

WTF? It did it again....

[mattd0344 2]

So today my friend and I got pretty bored and decided to go to Car Toys and screw with them. I went in and was looking around then they came up to us asking if we needed help. I said well I'm trying to find something louder then what I already have. The sales guy and installer wanted to check out what I had so I took them out to my car. I told them I'm gona turn it up about 1/2 to 2/3..which I did. Well my friend said it looked like my car was breathing it was flexing so much and then my mirror fell off (which is pretty tough to do). The installer goes..thats pretty loud! What do you have? I said well I have this Sundown Audio sub..I believe its called? He said I've never heard of that but.. I think two 12"W7's or maybe some fosgate 12's ohh or a pair of type x's will probably do the job of getting louder cuz they have "more cone area"...I just laughed and was like wow! I never knew they could get so loud...especially for being SQ subs. Then he asked me what shop made my box...then I said I made my box..and he looked all surprised and I then I said really... this sub would murder anything that you just talked about. Then I went on about how people just have two of these bad boyz with two 1500Ds and are getting in the 150's on music. He got all speechless and emberassed cuz he knew he just got played.

ok.I wouldn't understimate W7's...

I wouldn't under estimate a Nightshade

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I wouldn't understimate W7's...

The W7 is a good sub but it is overrated and way overpriced. And NO it is not an SQ sub.

Then what is it? It cant be considered an SPL sub..since soo many people are breaking SPL records with W7's right? Don't get me wrong I wouldn't consider it to be an all out SQ sub but thats what it mainly is. A SQ sub that can get loud but not THAT loud. Thats why ppl always make threads about "I'm looking at buying a W7" and ppl say all of the time, why not look at a Fi Q or an SI Mag...When Q's and Mag's are SQ subs that get pretty loud.

A W7 is an LSQ subwoofer. JL has spent too much time and money trying to re-invent the wheel. They built a much better product when they were a just a subwoofer company. An old school W6 will wipe the floor with a W7.

The old W6 cannot compete with the W7 in any term. That's just a fact and I have no idea how you've come to your conclusion.

Only the end-user can determine whether a sub can be labeled as a "SQ" driver or not. The list is long and mighty and some are even very surprising. In fact, there was and IASCA competitor who won several times using Pyle woofers of a newer (read PA) vintage, so you cannot rule anything out.

We come again full circle to the old adage, "it's all in the install."

[ramos 2]

I wouldn't understimate W7's...

The W7 is a good sub but it is overrated and way overpriced. And NO it is not an SQ sub.

Then what is it? It cant be considered an SPL sub..since soo many people are breaking SPL records with W7's right? Don't get me wrong I wouldn't consider it to be an all out SQ sub but thats what it mainly is. A SQ sub that can get loud but not THAT loud. Thats why ppl always make threads about "I'm looking at buying a W7" and ppl say all of the time, why not look at a Fi Q or an SI Mag...When Q's and Mag's are SQ subs that get pretty loud.

A W7 is an LSQ subwoofer. JL has spent too much time and money trying to re-invent the wheel. They built a much better product when they were a just a subwoofer company. An old school W6 will wipe the floor with a W7.

The old W6 cannot compete with the W7 in any term. That's just a fact and I have no idea how you've come to your conclusion.

Only the end-user can determine whether a sub can be labeled as a "SQ" driver or not. The list is long and mighty and some are even very surprising. In fact, there was and IASCA competitor who won several times using Pyle woofers of a newer (read PA) vintage, so you cannot rule anything out.

We come again full circle to the old adage, it'sall in the install.

exactly , people don't consider L5's or L7's as "SQ" subs. Yet they have been installed (and used ) in world champion sq installs.

[ramos 2]

your contradicting what the OP said were "sq" subs. So which is it?

And you didn't answer the part about what makes them "sq" subs?

Pardon me and may contradictory.

I guess we need to define our terms before I answer what an "SQ" sub is.

Don't get defensive my man, I'm not attacking you. I just have weird ways of getting my point across My definition would be a subwoofer that will play the frequency band I am looking to reproduce, in the alignment and space I have. A whole lot of subwoofers fall into that category.

[cman0655555 0]

My problem with it is that they get paid to help people, and they do by telling them the most ridiculous things. It is their job to know about what they are selling, and when the stereo department head of BestBuy tells me I need a 12" box for a 12" sub and tries to CONVINCE me of that when I tell her she is wrong, then that has crossed the line of what should be accepted as I was only seeking information on a sub my friend potentially wanted to buy, not an ego trip. That and they are spreading that kind of "knowledge" to everyone that it walking in the store...

and half of the kids they spread that to buy it, believe it, and guess what? they go home HAPPY. satisfied with their setup! so what? what is it to you? not everyone needs or even WANTS a competition grade setup! most want a little boom, or to be heard coming down the block (and i don't advocate that either). but guess what? they GET THAT. I'm going off on a tangent here, that's not needed, but my original point stands. these guys are just doing a job. that's all. let them do it. you think you know more than them? great. educate your inquisitive friends. they want to know, give them your knowledge. sign em up here, or even ask questions for them if you don't know the answer! but the salesman are just doing a job, (probably not even a career, a job..)for usually very little money, and don't want to put up with smartass kids.. they do it only because they have to. or better yet.. do as ghandi said- " be the change you wish to see in the world ". meaning- go work at a shop. inform customers to your "truth" tell/show them the good and the bad.. do it. i challenge you. (also-- see how long you last trying to sell a brand the shop DOESNT CARRY to customers. not long i bet..

x2 visitor. I used to be one of those little punks who knew everything or at least thought I did. Now instead of being an ass I try to help people out. There are allot of kids around our town that don't know as much as me and my team but instead of making fun of them and what they think we help them out and tell them what we know. Im actually helping one kid build a box the correct way so maybe he can show someone one day. I think at the end of the day it is way more rewarding to help someone than to make fun of them.

[P-Dizzle 1]

The old W6 cannot compete with the W7 in any term. That's just a fact and I have no idea how you've come to your conclusion.

Only the end-user can determine whether a sub can be labeled as a "SQ" driver or not. The list is long and mighty and some are even very surprising. In fact, there was and IASCA competitor who won several times using Pyle woofers of a newer (read PA) vintage, so you cannot rule anything out.

We come again full circle to the old adage, "it's all in the install."

Of course there is always opinion but to me an old school W6 is more accurate, every bit as loud and much more efficient.

You can use a sub for whatever reason you chose but if I where to categorize a W7 it would be LSQ.

Agree. Install is everything.

[P-Dizzle 1]

exactly , people don't consider L5's or L7's as "SQ" subs. Yet they have been installed (and used ) in world champion sq installs.

That is crazy. Kinda makes you wonder who the judges are?

[P-Dizzle 1]

Don't get defensive my man, I'm not attacking you. I just have weird ways of getting my point across My definition would be a subwoofer that will play the frequency band I am looking to reproduce, in the alignment and space I have. A whole lot of subwoofers fall into that category.

Haha. I am not being defensive, just messin around.... And that is a good way to put things...

[P-Dizzle 1]

I have been typing S-Q-L and it keeps coming up L-S-Q. Am I retarded?

[P-Dizzle 1]

x2 visitor. I used to be one of those little punks who knew everything or at least thought I did. Now instead of being an ass I try to help people out. There are allot of kids around our town that don't know as much as me and my team but instead of making fun of them and what they think we help them out and tell them what we know. Im actually helping one kid build a box the correct way so maybe he can show someone one day. I think at the end of the day it is way more rewarding to help someone than to make fun of them.

Agreed. And that is what all of us should do. I help and teach on a daily basis and have done a lot more freebies over the years than I should but some people are way too stubborn and refuse to listen. These are the ones that need a kick in the azz.

It is hard to judge these situations without actually being there.

Edited September 26, 2008 by P-Dizzle

[KU40 173]

exactly , people don't consider L5's or L7's as "SQ" subs. Yet they have been installed (and used ) in world champion sq installs.

But how much does a sub stage actually affect the overall score? I've never competed in SQ so I don't know what all they look for, but at the comps I've been to where SQ judging took place the overall SPL of the system added to the score. So I don't know if just having loud subs evens out the score from them not sounding the best.

I agree that there isn't a lot of difference in subwoofers so none can really innately be called an SQ or SPL sub. However, I think there are certain factors about each individual sub that leans it one way or the other for in-car use. Box required is one I can think of. If a 12" sub needs 8 cubes to have a flat response it may not be the greatest choice for an SQ application in a vehicle if that much space is not available. Those subs also tend to have a large peak above tuning in a ported box (recommended size for in-car use), which makes them louder for that range and the SPL tag gets put on. Some subs just don't play low very well, so if your definition of SQ is a flat response from 20 to 80 hz, they may not be able to do it easily in a car. And as we all know some subs are designed for SPL use with huge everything to be able to take a lot of power, which sometimes tends to not allow for an easy good response curve either, or just a different sound in general due to the higher moving mass and Le.

But with all that said, I'll reiterate that with proper box design nearly all subs should be able to achieve a response curve that fits your definition of "SQ." Plus it's much easier to label a sub an SPL sub if the manufacturer recommends a box that's 3 cubes tuned to 42 hz or something (I think Kicker at least used to do that for their L series subs), which obviously is going to have a limited response range and be very peaky. But if they want to draw in the kids who just want to get loud, that's the way they market it.

[KU40 173]

I have been typing S-Q-L and it keeps coming up L-S-Q. Am I retarded?

only because you think S-Q-L is a real term. What is it supposed to stand for? Sound Quality Loud? That doesn't make much sense. maybe Loud Sound Quality is better. They've put a filter on here to change it to LSQ when you post so as to stop the spread of the term.

[mytyeerinpie 0]

maybe we shoud find out the actual definitions before this debate continues....I have been watching this sincew it started.Thats all please carry on,

[JimJ 11]

But how much does a sub stage actually affect the overall score? I've never competed in SQ so I don't know what all they look for, but at the comps I've been to where SQ judging took place the overall SPL of the system added to the score.

It depends on the organization. MECA doesn't care about the overall SPL (maybe except as a tiebreak for RTA judging), but IASCA at least used to operate like you mentioned...the SPL score would be considered.

[P-Dizzle 1]

I have been typing S-Q-L and it keeps coming up L-S-Q. Am I retarded?

only because you think S-Q-L is a real term. What is it supposed to stand for? Sound Quality Loud? That doesn't make much sense. maybe Loud Sound Quality is better. They've put a filter on here to change it to LSQ when you post so as to stop the spread of the term.

Your right, but I didn't invent the term. Maybe we should refer to these as "hybrids" or "crossovers"? Are you saying SPL stands for "Sound Pressure Loud"? And there are a lot of things in the English language that do not make sense. So what should we call these somewhat SQ subwoofers with a little SPL? SWSQ-LSPL...

Edited September 26, 2008 by P-Dizzle

[JimJ 11]

maybe we shoud find out the actual definitions before this debate continues....I have been watching this sincew it started.Thats all please carry on,

Quality is a tough term to define by itself...it's a murky soup of subjectivity and objectivity

If there was a universal definition for SQ, SQ competition would have a lot less suspense, that's for sure

[mytyeerinpie 0]

I don't think this counts but here's one, urban dictionary:

3. LSQ 24 up, 55 down

LSQ is a term used in car audio, a

subjective interpretation between SQ

and SPL.

SQ = sound quality

SPL = sound pressure level

LSQ = combination of both with a

small sacrifice in SQ and SPL.

I want to build a LSQ sound system for

my car, i.e., I don't want high sound

quality and I don't want high sound

pressure level, I want something in

between.

wow thats funny it changed mine from s-q-l to lsq too and I copy and pasted it

Edited September 26, 2008 by mytyeerinpie

[JimJ 11]

So what should we call these somewhat SQ subwoofers with a little SPL?

SQ, there's no need to call it anything else. That's the problem I have with terms like "loud sound quality". SQ by itself can be very loud, saying "loud" is just redundant. The trick is whether or not that volume stays true to the performance

I don't think just hearing words and maybe a synthesized hi-hat over a subbass line really counts as "LSQ", but that seems to be the usage for 99% of the people who use it.

[mytyeerinpie 0]

http://www.mecacaraudio.com/2008Rulebook/2...20page%2036.pdf

here's some more but I think we aren't on that subject any more.....

Aren't sq subs defined somewhat by the amount, hardness od the spiders? I know more goes in to it , but I am still learning....

Edited September 26, 2008 by mytyeerinpie

[P-Dizzle 1]

So what should we call these somewhat SQ subwoofers with a little SPL?

SQ, there's no need to call it anything else. That's the problem I have with terms like "loud sound quality". SQ by itself can be very loud, saying "loud" is just redundant. The trick is whether or not that volume stays true to the performance

I don't think just hearing words and maybe a synthesized hi-hat over a subbass line really counts as "LSQ", but that seems to be the usage for 99% of the people who use it.

There is no doubt SQ subs can get loud I just have a problem considering subs like the W7, RE's and Fi's SQ subs.