Went to Car Toys today....

[DeeCee 0]

Meh - like it matters if you know more than the salesman.

Its like going into a (thinks of american store) Best Buy and asking them if they know about a small company who hand builds SQ speakers like Andrian Audio when talking about home hi-fi. 99% of the time, they won't know, so I won't push them or feel the need to display my knowledge on the subject unless we start getting into an in depth conversation.

Personally, I used to just walk out if they didn't have what I wanted, otherwise I'd politely nod my head and let the salesperson get their spiel out and just keeping looking and playing with stuff. They have a job, and they can do it to the best of their abilities and it doesn't worry me in the slightest if they don't know the latest and greatest out there.

Thats what the internet is for

I've also been to a couple of shops with the show cars / spl cars looking for an ANL fuse or the like, and all the sales people do is fluster and claim we could never use a 300A fuse or we should only have to use 8GA for power to a couple of amps, until I show them the 70mm^2 welding cable running through the cabin, and then they are a bit gobsmacked.

But all in all, if you need an ego trip, I'm sure that there are better ways to do it than pick on a low level target like a salesperson.

[TRZ 0]

Maybe I have misread a couple threads here but are you guys defending bullchit installers and salesmen? I have been installing since the mid 90's and have seen and heard it all. I love those who play the MECP card yet they have never even heard of a diode and can't even explain the basic function of a relay. The biggest joke is the "Best Buy Certified Installer". It kills me when I see that badge. Yes, there is a learning curve but if you work at Best Buy or some crap like that you aren't going to learn much and you definitely shouldn't claim you know it all. What sucks about the audio industry is the lack of regulation. I would like to see the industry governed because it is in some serious trouble. Anybody can be an "installer" and many shops don't require any experience whatsoever. You see all these punk kids come out of high school who have installed a few systems for friends and then claim to be the best installers in the world. These guys are picked up by shops like Best Buy, Circuit City, Audio Express and other BS shops. Many of these clowns hack up vehicles which leaves a mess for installers like me to clean up. You cannot properly learn this trade without some form of mentor or guidance and it isn't something you can master by taking classes, reading books or browsing forums. If you want to be an installer or want to know your car audio take the proper steps. Don't claim to know things you know nothing about and you won't be left looking foolish.

Some one who is worried about the industry should support MECP and other programs instead of thinking they know everything and have it all figured out . I as well have been installing since 92 professionally and understand not everyone is an installer or salesman .Don't get me wrong I believe there is a place for everyone and some are best suited for other carriers but I have seen some guys that know everything turn out not to know anything. The economy will weed out the bullchit installers, business , and manufactures . I think the proper steps are to 1: get a education in the field you choose 2:get certified basic to start and 3: help others starting in a carrier and be a mentor . As an owner our responsibilites lie in educating our staff and CONSUMERS both and most of all support companies that support us .I give a small level of respect to Worstbuy for at least training their staff somewhat through programs like the installer institute.May be very scaled down versions but at least it is the proper format to start a carrier . Finally I don't remember anyone going to a bestbuy or circuit getting a competition system or anything other that the basics.

[nick_19 1]

My problem with it is that they get paid to help people, and they do by telling them the most ridiculous things. It is their job to know about what they are selling, and when the stereo department head of BestBuy tells me I need a 12" box for a 12" sub and tries to CONVINCE me of that when I tell her she is wrong, then that has crossed the line of what should be accepted as I was only seeking information on a sub my friend potentially wanted to buy, not an ego trip. That and they are spreading that kind of "knowledge" to everyone that it walking in the store...

[visitor 3]

Some one who is worried about the industry should support MECP and other programs instead of thinking they know everything and have it all figured out . I as well have been installing since 92 professionally and understand not everyone is an installer or salesman .Don't get me wrong I believe there is a place for everyone and some are best suited for other carriers but I have seen some guys that know everything turn out not to know anything. The economy will weed out the bullchit installers, business , and manufactures . I think the proper steps are to 1: get a education in the field you choose 2:get certified basic to start and 3: help others starting in a carrier and be a mentor . As an owner our responsibilites lie in educating our staff and CONSUMERS both and most of all support companies that support us .I give a small level of respect to Worstbuy for at least training their staff somewhat through programs like the installer institute.May be very scaled down versions but at least it is the proper format to start a carrier . Finally I don't remember anyone going to a bestbuy or circuit getting a competition system or anything other that the basics.

absolutly. i agree fully.

[visitor 3]

My problem with it is that they get paid to help people, and they do by telling them the most ridiculous things. It is their job to know about what they are selling, and when the stereo department head of BestBuy tells me I need a 12" box for a 12" sub and tries to CONVINCE me of that when I tell her she is wrong, then that has crossed the line of what should be accepted as I was only seeking information on a sub my friend potentially wanted to buy, not an ego trip. That and they are spreading that kind of "knowledge" to everyone that it walking in the store...

and half of the kids they spread that to buy it, believe it, and guess what? they go home HAPPY. satisfied with their setup! so what? what is it to you? not everyone needs or even WANTS a competition grade setup! most want a little boom, or to be heard coming down the block (and i don't advocate that either). but guess what? they GET THAT. I'm going off on a tangent here, that's not needed, but my original point stands. these guys are just doing a job. that's all. let them do it. you think you know more than them? great. educate your inquisitive friends. they want to know, give them your knowledge. sign em up here, or even ask questions for them if you don't know the answer! but the salesman are just doing a job, (probably not even a career, a job..)for usually very little money, and don't want to put up with smartass kids.. they do it only because they have to. or better yet.. do as ghandi said- " be the change you wish to see in the world ". meaning- go work at a shop. inform customers to your "truth" tell/show them the good and the bad.. do it. i challenge you. (also-- see how long you last trying to sell a brand the shop DOESNT CARRY to customers. not long i bet..

[stealth 113]

damn this is some childish shiit, i work at a shop but i dont see kids pulling this chit because we hold comps at our shop and if anyone think they loud i would hand them a comp form. dont be running around trying to fck with other peoples business. this makes me realize why people hate us youngins. if you came with 1 15 actin all cocky and tried to blast your chit id laugh because 1 15 aint shiit.

[dem beats 1,223]

I don't condone harassing sales people, it does nothing for you or them. I refuse to defend them however. Some are the worst slime ever. I have worked in sales for 11 years. Everything is widgets. EVERYTHING. That doesn't make it ok to spread falicies about those widgets. You say some kid goes home happy with his set up. Sure. But in the case of them using a wrong or second rate fuse, and as before mentioned 8gauge wire to power 2 sub amps, and then a 4 chan too. Well....

They will also tell you how to wire things incorectly, if you ask a sales person. Nice fried VC. Normaly not dangerous but if you have a short, and somehow end up with an direct short, then the plastic sheilding melts... Yeah that will get the copper hot enough to melt your carpet. I have every reason to be mad with BB and other big box stores alowing their employee's to lie. EVERY REASON. There is no quality control with information. I understand why it happens but that doesn't excuse it. It's not like when they lie about what you need to get the most of your 1080p plasma. This could potentialy wreck someones car, or maybe result in them getting hurt.

Anyone who has ever seen a wire melt because of an effed up circut knows just gow dangerous and fast it is. There is no excuse.

[dem beats 1,223]

one of the best ways to deal with sales people BTW is to let them say their peice. This is usualy most co beneficial. Othertimes, if I'm in a poor mood and really need to buy somethign in person and not on line like I usualy shop for the things I really know a lot about I tell the person I need a CASHIER not a sales person. Usualy, when I buy cars, or electronics I have to tell the sales person I merely need to see if this does what I want, I am aware of the specs, I just needed to play with it in person before handing them my money. They didn't work hard, I don't have to hear them talk or mess up their own sale by saying something incorrect and getting me all fired up.

[stealth 113]

wait are we talking about the same thing here. im talking about a bunch of little punks..

[visitor 3]

I don't condone harassing sales people, it does nothing for you or them. I refuse to defend them however. Some are the worst slime ever. I have worked in sales for 11 years. Everything is widgets. EVERYTHING. That doesn't make it ok to spread falicies about those widgets. You say some kid goes home happy with his set up. Sure. But in the case of them using a wrong or second rate fuse, and as before mentioned 8gauge wire to power 2 sub amps, and then a 4 chan too. Well....

They will also tell you how to wire things incorectly, if you ask a sales person. Nice fried VC. Normaly not dangerous but if you have a short, and somehow end up with an direct short, then the plastic sheilding melts... Yeah that will get the copper hot enough to melt your carpet. I have every reason to be mad with BB and other big box stores alowing their employee's to lie. EVERY REASON. There is no quality control with information. I understand why it happens but that doesn't excuse it. It's not like when they lie about what you need to get the most of your 1080p plasma. This could potentialy wreck someones car, or maybe result in them getting hurt.

Anyone who has ever seen a wire melt because of an effed up circut knows just gow dangerous and fast it is. There is no excuse.

now lets not change the targets.. so... here goes. WHY are you asking the SALESMAN how to wire? why not the installer? good chance the salesman (especially at a best buy) is not into car audio, and just applied as he needed a job... didnt care the department. simple as that.

[dem beats 1,223]

Whoa champ, I have never said I asked them sir. I said they proffered the information to people while I was in the store. Just a couple weeks ago when picking up an fuse that I ended up overpaying for. I never once said I asked them for help and then they told ME wrong. You inferred that.

Again, My point was there is no point in giving sales people a hard time, but BB and other big box places should be ashamed of the information their sales people give out and what they litteraly lie about. If you ask a sales guy about instalation, he should send you to install if he doesn't know, not lie or tell you what he thinks you might want to hear.

[dem beats 1,223]

When someone proffers information they are not well versed almost always and everytime will it end up in a bad situation. My post was to try to let people know giving sales guys a hard time for no reason at all won't result in anything but probably someone feeling bad. The other point I made was to condemn BB and CC and UE and most big box places for allowing their staff to spead falacies. I do think regulation and training is needed, and I also think that what BB says is a certified installer is completely missleading.

[Saint211 0]

Lot of generalizations in this thread.

Not everyone in the world are car audio junkies like us. Obviously these "bad apples" are installing cause they were needed for the job. Maybe you should have applied?

I could go on and on about this, but i'm not

A funny note, is for every installer/salesman that thinks he knows it all, there are thousand of customers who "heard from ______" and think they know everything in the world.

There isn't one person in the world that knows everything about car audio.

And you must be crazy going and broadcasting to everyone and their mother whats in your car.

[sundownz 197]

This thread is getting a bit too off topic for my section.

[johnecon2001 82]

This thread is getting a bit too off topic for my section.

Lets move it then instead of locking..

Keep the personal attacks to a minimum guys, or this will get locked again.

[P-Dizzle 1]

This thread is getting a bit too off topic for my section.

Lets move it then instead of locking..

Keep the personal attacks to a minimum guys, or this will get locked again.

Good idea. And don't take things personal on here fellas. We are all here for the same reason, a passion for car audio. I agree you shouldn' harass people but some definitely need to be put in their place from time to time.

[truckaudioman 0]

WAIT....I thought nick and M5 knew everything....they always seem so right on with questions, lol. Very smart people...

Anyway, I cant bash to hard, my local BB actually employs knowledgable car audio people. Hell, me and the salesman actually had a discussion about FI and the Havocs....I think he is even a member of this forum.

[P-Dizzle 1]

WAIT....I thought nick and M5 knew everything....they always seem so right on with questions, lol. Very smart people...

Anyway, I cant bash to hard, my local BB actually employs knowledgable car audio people. Hell, me and the salesman actually had a discussion about FI and the Havocs....I think he is even a member of this forum.

Not all BB guys are idiots. A friend of mine who was a bad azz installer use to manage a BB install bay and he kept his boys in check.

[dem beats 1,223]

I will say it happenes every once and a while, but that is the exception, not the standard to find knowledgable good guys.

[P-Dizzle 1]

That is for sure.

[ramos 2]

So today my friend and I got pretty bored and decided to go to Car Toys and screw with them. I went in and was looking around then they came up to us asking if we needed help. I said well I'm trying to find something louder then what I already have. The sales guy and installer wanted to check out what I had so I took them out to my car. I told them I'm gona turn it up about 1/2 to 2/3..which I did. Well my friend said it looked like my car was breathing it was flexing so much and then my mirror fell off (which is pretty tough to do). The installer goes..thats pretty loud! What do you have? I said well I have this Sundown Audio sub..I believe its called? He said I've never heard of that but.. I think two 12"W7's or maybe some fosgate 12's ohh or a pair of type x's will probably do the job of getting louder cuz they have "more cone area"...I just laughed and was like wow! I never knew they could get so loud...especially for being SQ subs. Then he asked me what shop made my box...then I said I made my box..and he looked all surprised and I then I said really... this sub would murder anything that you just talked about. Then I went on about how people just have two of these bad boyz with two 1500Ds and are getting in the 150's on music. He got all speechless and emberassed cuz he knew he just got played.

What's an "sq" sub? What makes a sub an "sq" sub? Becasue it doesn't handle a bazillion watts?

[P-Dizzle 1]

So today my friend and I got pretty bored and decided to go to Car Toys and screw with them. I went in and was looking around then they came up to us asking if we needed help. I said well I'm trying to find something louder then what I already have. The sales guy and installer wanted to check out what I had so I took them out to my car. I told them I'm gona turn it up about 1/2 to 2/3..which I did. Well my friend said it looked like my car was breathing it was flexing so much and then my mirror fell off (which is pretty tough to do). The installer goes..thats pretty loud! What do you have? I said well I have this Sundown Audio sub..I believe its called? He said I've never heard of that but.. I think two 12"W7's or maybe some fosgate 12's ohh or a pair of type x's will probably do the job of getting louder cuz they have "more cone area"...I just laughed and was like wow! I never knew they could get so loud...especially for being SQ subs. Then he asked me what shop made my box...then I said I made my box..and he looked all surprised and I then I said really... this sub would murder anything that you just talked about. Then I went on about how people just have two of these bad boyz with two 1500Ds and are getting in the 150's on music. He got all speechless and emberassed cuz he knew he just got played.

What's an "sq" sub? What makes a sub an "sq" sub? Becasue it doesn't handle a bazillion watts?

What is an SQ sub? Image Dynamics IDQ, CDT Audio QES and DLS Nobeliums.

What isn't? JL Audio W7 and virtually every other sub from big box brands.

[ramos 2]

What is an SQ sub? Image Dynamics IDQ, CDT Audio QES and DLS Nobeliums.

What isn't? JL Audio W7 and virtually every other sub from big box brands.

Wait a second here,

I think two 12"W7's or maybe some fosgate 12's ohh or a pair of type x's will probably do the job of getting louder cuz they have "more cone area"...I just laughed and was like wow! I never knew they could get so loud...especially for being SQ subs.

your contradicting what the OP said were "sq" subs. So which is it?

And you didn't answer the part about what makes them "sq" subs?

[Adrian_D 520]

So today my friend and I got pretty bored and decided to go to Car Toys and screw with them. I went in and was looking around then they came up to us asking if we needed help. I said well I'm trying to find something louder then what I already have. The sales guy and installer wanted to check out what I had so I took them out to my car. I told them I'm gona turn it up about 1/2 to 2/3..which I did. Well my friend said it looked like my car was breathing it was flexing so much and then my mirror fell off (which is pretty tough to do). The installer goes..thats pretty loud! What do you have? I said well I have this Sundown Audio sub..I believe its called? He said I've never heard of that but.. I think two 12"W7's or maybe some fosgate 12's ohh or a pair of type x's will probably do the job of getting louder cuz they have "more cone area"...I just laughed and was like wow! I never knew they could get so loud...especially for being SQ subs. Then he asked me what shop made my box...then I said I made my box..and he looked all surprised and I then I said really... this sub would murder anything that you just talked about. Then I went on about how people just have two of these bad boyz with two 1500Ds and are getting in the 150's on music. He got all speechless and emberassed cuz he knew he just got played.

ok.

I wouldn't understimate W7's...

[P-Dizzle 1]

I wouldn't understimate W7's...

The W7 is a good sub but it is overrated and way overpriced. And NO it is not an SQ sub.