Problem with getting my 15" Fi Q to sound right.

[Trepkos 1]

Explain to me, potential loading and tuning issues....

And also, I take my DMM off of my amp playing a song which I peak at about 7volts. The amplifier is set with no bass eq, gains nearly at max, HU volume offset, amp bass boost and etc flatlined.

I put it on a profile ap1000 amplifier, gains a little over half, bass boost a little over half, and its reading the same song on that amplifier with 22volts on average.

Theres a problem with the output of the amplifier i believe. There should be no issue whatsoever with the enclosure or the sub woofer and its tuning.

[KU40 173]

By the looks of your last picture it looks like your port is firing directly into the side of the cabin like 1 inch away. Is that true? Could be an issue with that. The port might like a little more room in front of it.

But you said you put it on the profile amp and it sounded better?

[Trepkos 1]

The port is actually firing into the side but i cut the panel so theres about 8 inches of space between the port and the metal frame of the truck.

No, actually I took a meter to my friend's setup, he had two Jensen 10" in two small bandpass enclosures, and an acoustic 10" subwoofer in a sealed enclosure with a superglued surround, all running off of a profile ap1000 amplifier, and that sounded better than my 1606d amp + fi q matchup.

So I took the DMM to speaker ports of his profile ap1000 two-channel amplifier and watched as the voltage increased on hard hitting parts of the song usually only a mili-second behind on the reading, this song was max reading was 22v's. I went back to my truck and played the same song and monitored the output of my amplifier, in the same areas which the profile was outputting 22v's, and I was hitting maxed at 7v's.

Only difference in the amplifier settings was that my gains were maxed, his was half-way, I had no bass boost, or anything, he had his turned up half way and +6 on the HU.

[95Honda 486]

Well, your amp could be messed up, or something goofy in the signal chain.

I don't know what to tell you, you should be able to tell if your sub is recieving adequate power without a DMM or anything else... Just your eyes and ears...

If you reall think it is your amp, park your car next to your buddy with the profile and run a speaker wire from his amp to your sub. That should narrow the problem down for you... It is really tough to help with all the different variables thta have been thrown out...

Also, don't forget that the gain settings are pretty much meaningless from a comparison standpoint. Whenever you hear "gain set conservative" or "be careful with the gains" or "gains at 1/2" this is usually coming from someone who doesn't have a clue... The gain settings are 100% meaningless if the amps are fed by different headunits also, so don't get hung up on the different setttings between the Profile and Hifonics...

As far as loading, just look at it as how the sound is coupling with the air space inside your cabin. A good example is when you are in a room in the house and you walk around and you notice the bass sounds really good in some areas and almost gone in others, these are room modes that have similar effects. If you are having goofy coupling issues and wierd cabin modes, your listening position in the truck may be acting like that part of the room where the bass just isn't sounding good. This is where placement and where your port exits can make a big difference.

The ports on my 8" Tangband baox also fired out the side like yours, I had one port on each end though. They were also fairly close to the sides of the truck but worked pretty good. So I think your orientation should be good, but you just may have stumbled onto some wierd combo of port exit and driver placement that just doesn work... Still, it's a ported 15... Sucker should wang almost no matter what... Until you figure out if your amp is at fault, you got me man....

Edited July 6, 2008 by 95Honda

[Trepkos 1]

To clarify on some issues. The signal isn't a problem, I matched up a Y-Adapter to the amplifier and noticed no real difference between the sound. That is with the SW setting on the HU at 0 as well so the pre-out voltage was lowered and probably matched that of the Y-Adapter's RCA ends.

This is my theory from my own ears and listening, with each turn of the gains knob, more power is output but the dirtier it gets, I believe this is because of a each turn of the gains raises the THD value. I really think the issue lies in the amplifier. I don't think my simple DMM has continuity or peak hold but it was accurate enough from my pov to display the readings almost in real time with the music and with the gains nearly maxed as in just a slight turn off of their maximum level, peak output during hard hitting sessions was around 11 or 12, most I ever saw was 14 and average was around 5 and 7.

The reason I cant really compare the Profile is that the amplifier isn't 1-Ohm stable, and my subwoofer is dvc 2 wired in parallel which could potentially damage his amplifier. Another thing, making me believe that the signal is not a problem is that the HU is a brand new kenwood x991 and the Sundown amplifier works flawlessly. With 0db test tones, the maximum output I could get from the Hifonics amplifier with the gains completely maxed was around 36-37volts. I reached my target voltage with the sundown amplifier with the DMM by setting it a little below a half of the turn dial.

Noone in this area that I know has a 1-ohm stable or one channel amplifier for me to test it with but I may try to test with the profile. I really don't think its a sound issue with the environment and the subwoofer. Because I am not listening to it from a random location inside the cab, I am listening to the subwoofer right in front of it, the sound waves being directly repelled from the cone rather than ones bouncing around the cab space. What I am hearing is distortion, not from an increase in volume but an increase in THD to achieve the power output that the subwoofer requires to move effectively.

I am going to try and return the amplifier to the eBay store I bought it from under warranty and assurance that it is defected, from that point I am probably going to purchase a new 1200watt amplifier directly from the manufacturer or a authorized dealer and see how that handles the situation.

[Trepkos 1]

Ive listened to a truck with 3x 10"s behind the seat, and one 12" in the passenger floorboard and also a truck with a 12" directly in the middle firing back into the seat. I think I can sorta identify bad imaging and loading issues. What i think I have here is purely a extremely bad/dirty power output.

[Philanthro 0]

Are you 100% sure that you wired the voice coils in phase? (positive to positive and negative to negative). I know it might sound stupid but it could be an easy mistake to make and would kill the bass response. Maybe you should double check just in case...

[Trepkos 1]

Are you 100% sure that you wired the voice coils in phase? (positive to positive and negative to negative). I know it might sound stupid but it could be an easy mistake to make and would kill the bass response. Maybe you should double check just in case...

I am positive. And if I didn't, wouldn't it being playing out of phase? Theres no real problem with actual bass response being reproduced, there is sound, fully and accurate. Just the output is lacking in volume.

[Trepkos 1]

Anyways, I'm off to work now. If you have any questions or other bits of useful information, my replies may be sparse if any until 8-ish Central -6 GMT or even later.

Thank you all for your helpful responses and information, I hope with the this continuing investigation that this problem may be shortlived.

[Philanthro 0]

Are you 100% sure that you wired the voice coils in phase? (positive to positive and negative to negative). I know it might sound stupid but it could be an easy mistake to make and would kill the bass response. Maybe you should double check just in case...

I am positive. And if I didn't, wouldn't it being playing out of phase? Theres no real problem with actual bass response being reproduced, there is sound, fully and accurate. Just the output is lacking in volume.

AFAIK, if you wire them out of phase, then the sub will still play but just not nearly as loud. I've never actually tried so I can't tell you exactly how it sounds though.

If you have a local audio shop around you, then maybe you could ask them to demo an amp for you. This might help you determine if the amp is at fault.

[95Honda 486]

Well, I hope it is your amp. That would be the cheapest and easiest fix if it's still under warranty.

36V rms is still 1200 watts at 1 ohm... That is a ton of power.... If the amp is messed up, that is a ton of chitty power, LOL! There always could be something wrong in the driver or inter-gain stages of the amp, that could make for some really bad output signal, but you never know. Let us know what happens...

You could also wire your your sub for 4 ohm and test it like that with any other amp......

Edited July 6, 2008 by 95Honda

[MikeS 0]

Well, I hope it is your amp. That would be the cheapest and easiest fix if it's still under warranty.

36V rms is still 1200 watts at 1 ohm... That is a ton of power.... If the amp is messed up, that is a ton of chitty power, LOL! There always could be something wrong in the driver or inter-gain stages of the amp, that could make for some really bad output signal, but you never know. Let us know what happens...

You could also wire your your sub for 4 ohm and test it like that with any other amp......

I had my buddy bring over a old Harmon Kardon 330B receiver that had some issues.

He said it had total distorted sound.

The receiver has main out/main in inputs, so you can input direct to the main driver and output PCB.

Worked fine that way. Found the schematic for the series of HK 330 A/B/C.

Started checking voltages. Turned out to the PS section for the pre-driver PCB had a bad diode. 1.5 volts where there should be around 30 volts or so. Swapped it out, and replaced a couple suspect looking capacitors.

Sounds good now.

Does this car amplifier sound dirty and distorted no matter what level it is played at? Is it a two channel amp, and can you play the amplifier through full range speakers of some sort?

If it maybe has a problem with the driver stages and pumps out distorted sound, it will be more easy to notice through the mid and top-end.

[Trepkos 1]

Well, it might be an issue with amplifier but I don't really know how to tell if its an issue with anything else. Its a mono-channel amplifier so it wouldn't sound good through full-range speakers regardless.

[///M5 2,833]

Ok, well I did some testing today. I decided to set the gains nearly to max with all other volume offsets, bass boosts, and everything else at their lowest or flatlined and took the DMM out to see how high the voltage raised on different heavy hitting rap songs. This is with the gains set nearly at its highest.

The average DC voltage was 7-8volts, the highest it ever rose was 14volts. So according to that, with the volume at 75% and gains nearly at max, on most songs the amplifier was outputting around 50watts and maxed out at 196watts(I only saw the voltage rise over 12 maybe once or twice).

Average DC voltage on an AC signal is a very, very useless number. ????

Measuring impedance with a DMM doesn't work, it only measures resistance.

A mono-amplifier will be more than enough to drive one speaker (as long as it is rated to play the full audio spectrum) many people use 1 chn or 2chn amps bridged to one channel for full range drivers.

Videos are completely useless and should never be used for depicting how well a driver does anything.

I find the eD boner from the two posters in here very amusing. There is nothing special about their amps, in the price range there are better solutions, and the owner is such an idiot and ass there is no reason to ever do business with them.

Perhaps since it is output you strive for you should have bought something other than the Q.

While I think that amp is a joke, I am not so sure it is the problem. I would put money on it being user setup issues.

It is rather easy to tell if you have an unusual loading issue, just take the box out of the truck and keep it connected. Considering what has happened so far this would be my first step.

[95Honda 486]

Measuring impedance with a DMM doesn't work, it only measures resistance.

A mono-amplifier will be more than enough to drive one speaker (as long as it is rated to play the full audio spectrum) many people use 1 chn or 2chn amps bridged to one channel for full range drivers.

Videos are completely useless and should never be used for depicting how well a driver does anything.

Yes.

Yes.

and.... Yes..

Also, a 15 should be wanging in there with as little as a 100 watts like I said before, something just isn't right here...

My dads 4 8s off the MMATS DHC2200.1 (600 watts @ 4ohms) tears you balls off when you let it eat in that cab... Enough to make driving difficult due to blurred vision.. Don't give up, that cab CAN be loud... We just gotta fiure out WTF is going on with your install..

Edited July 7, 2008 by 95Honda

[Trepkos 1]

Measuring impedance with a DMM doesn't work, it only measures resistance.

A mono-amplifier will be more than enough to drive one speaker (as long as it is rated to play the full audio spectrum) many people use 1 chn or 2chn amps bridged to one channel for full range drivers.

Videos are completely useless and should never be used for depicting how well a driver does anything.

Yes.

Yes.

and.... Yes..

Also, a 15 should be wanging in there with as little as a 100 watts like I said before, something just isn't right here...

My dads 4 8s off the MMATS DHC2200.1 (600 watts @ 4ohms) tears you balls off when you let it eat in that cab... Enough to make driving difficult due to blurred vision.. Don't give up, that cab CAN be loud... We just gotta fiure out WTF is going on with your install..

I will be conducting two tests later today. One with the subwoofer in its box hooked up to a different amplifier, a Hifonics Txi1008d, the second with the actually subwoofer and enclosure out of the truck entirely to test for loading issues.

If the subwoofer plays better on the other amplifier, then the problem is either the amplifier or the output voltage of the x991 SW preouts. If the subwoofer plays better outside of the truck then it is a problem with the loading/and the environment it is in inside the truck. If it plays the same outside of the truck then it'll be an issue with the actual box that the subwoofer is in.

[95Honda 486]

I will be conducting two tests later today. One with the subwoofer in its box hooked up to a different amplifier, a Hifonics Txi1008d, the second with the actually subwoofer and enclosure out of the truck entirely to test for loading issues.

If the subwoofer plays better on the other amplifier, then the problem is either the amplifier or the output voltage of the x991 SW preouts. If the subwoofer plays better outside of the truck then it is a problem with the loading/and the environment it is in inside the truck. If it plays the same outside of the truck then it'll be an issue with the actual box that the subwoofer is in.

Good. Try and be as objective as possible when comparing these different setups and hopefully you'll find out where the problem lies.

[tezin87 0]

Good luck man....I hope you figure it out.

[Trepkos 1]

Ok, well, Here is a good overview of how the test run went.

First I kept the box and sub woofer inside of the truck and ran the speaker wire from his amplifier which is hooked up in his truck to my sub woofer. With this done there was little to no output from the subwoofer even with the volume turned up and the bass boost also at maximum. Then I proceeded to take the subwoofer and box outside of the truck and sit it on his tailgate and listen to it from there. Same sound, same lack of output(When I say lack of output, I mean just barely hitting if any, and no hitting at all without the bass boost maxed). So then I took the subwoofer out of the enclosure to inspect all the connections and make sure the polarity was correct. Some of the screws actually were drilled directly into the wood but into the carpet on one side of the subwoofer so it may have been a little loose.

The polarity was correct then I got an idea on a way to wire it in parallel differently. Originally this is how I wired it in parallel. There are two terminals on each side, correct? Well I wired + to + and - to -, then from the subwoofer to the terminals inside the box from one side of terminals I wired + to the box + and from the other side of terminals I wired - to the box -. So I changed this by wiring the + and - from one side of terminals to the box terminals instead of splitting them.

There was an increase in sound, but nothing phenomenal, maybe a slight bit better than before. I think I may be scratching my setup and going with the following:

New box, similar size but shorter and around 3.5-3.0ft^3 with two 12" Fi Q's being powered by either an AQ 2200d or a Sundown SAZ-1500d. Also I notieced that the back of the magnet is around an inch or so from the back of the box and on some songs it would hit fairly hard and a loud clap sound would emit from the port.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Trepkos

[chrismcdonald12 0]

1 Q should almoast be knocking your mirror off in such a small cab.... did you try using a different source for the amp? Perhaps hooking up to another deck or a set of RCA adapters to an mp3 player. Also just measure resistance of the whole setup again to make 100% sure. Ive had some funky output problems from RCA's, head units, and subwoofer wiring in the past myself so i know theres tons of ways for things to go south. Dont give up on it yet that should be plenty of woofer to get even your bowels shaking.

[///M5 2,833]

Not quite sure I followed your description of what you tried, but it does sound like something is wired wrong if with your buddies amp it didn't do much either.

[Trepkos 1]

Not quite sure I followed your description of what you tried, but it does sound like something is wired wrong if with your buddies amp it didn't do much either.

Yeah thats why I actually took the subwoofer out.

[KU40 173]

Try reversing polarity on each voice coil one at a time. Sometimes manufacturers accidentally label them wrong.

[cecaa850 0]

Try reversing polarity on each voice coil one at a time. Sometimes manufacturers accidentally label them wrong.

That makes the most sense to me.

[Trepkos 1]

Try reversing polarity on each voice coil one at a time. Sometimes manufacturers accidentally label them wrong.

That makes the most sense to me.

I actually just reversed the polarity at the amplifier, and played the same song and there was no real difference in output. I did it two or three times to make sure my ears werent tricking me.