SAZ3000D Protection mode on

[3stagevtec 2]

It is a very strange problem for certain! I can't see why anything is different the second time you turn on the amp from the first time when it came right on with the head unit.

i myself didn't want to blame the amp.. what are the odds of two amps having similar problems..

but i went through everything i know to rule out my system.. and it all points to the amp at fault**.. sad to say..

i don't trust alot of our 'professional installers' down here, when i install something myself, i know i will get it done right.. BUT just by the slightest chance i'm wrong, i'll seek other help.. to rule me out..

(** no speakers connected, no RCA connected, Power and Ground connections are well secured, i have 2 ground points for improved connection, i jumpered the batt +ve to the remote turn on)

i have an idea, i have a 10A, 13.8V regulated power supply in my room... i'll connect the amp to that to see it the problem still occurs... that would help rule out my vehicle's system...

[3stagevtec 2]

That is very odd. Also, Jacob, in my car, when the ign. switch is in the Start position, the switched power to the deck appears to be killed, ie. the deck turns off while in Start. This could be a problem if you're listening to your radio with the car off, then need to start it up. Not sure exactly how that works.

when in the 'start' position, power to all other (unnecessary) accessories is temporalily cut, so that maximum energy from the battery will go to starting the vehicle..

[3stagevtec 2]

yup, the exact same thing happened on the regulated supply... again, no RCA and speakers connected.. so it's definitely the amp at fault.. (if i missed something, or i'm wrong please let me know..)

written inside the packaging for the amp is.. "TESTED 11/21/07"

Mr Fuller, can you help in any way? (maybe you can send down an autographed SAZ3000D for me ) i'll make contact with our supplier, Fen Jr, aka Exonic and let him know the situation.. I REALLY REALLY WANT THIS AMP... I'M COMPLETELY BLOWN AWAY BY ITS RATING AT SUCH A LOW VOLTAGE & PRICE, and that's exactly what i have been searching for in an amp...

[shizzzon 461]

i'd been told that you aren't suppose to turn on a class d amp with no load present, on high output class d amps. They will see 0 ohms and can damage them. This wasn't told to me from or reference to Sundown but just class d amps in general.

[3stagevtec 2]

in theory they supposed to see infinity ohms.. but them again, i'm not 100% sure on their inner workings..

i know that you are not supposed to turn on a switching power supply without any load on it.. if a classD has that same design... well...

[Chiney 0]

..sup 3stage.. mr.sundown..

sundownz... u kno me from trinituner as well.. no need for an intro..

now.. tell me something here

i noticed someone said u shouldnt power up a class D amp with no subs connected as it will see infinite load.... buttttttttttt

i`m sure you saw wen he said he tried it with the proper load dude..

this is only possible if the amp has that protection built in.. one of the brands i kno that does this is Zapco...

is the saz3000d equiped with this protection mode.. ?

another question..

these class D amps have 3 way or 4 way protection? wat are they?

i kno 3stage is a very trust worthy person..if he says he has tried everything.. well its gotta be the amp

Edited July 5, 2008 by Chiney_TriniTuner

[sundownz 197]

It would be nearly impossible for you to have two defective amps in a row - they have all been tested to perform normally up to full output and down to 1/2 ohm at the listed date on the box, I wrote "Tested" on the box after I tested the amp myself on that date. Out of hundreds of 3000Ds nobody has every reported an issue like this at all - much less with two in a row. I'm sure you can see why I doubt there is any problem with your amp(s).

If the amp is not fully shut down when you try to power it back on it may not power back on properly. I am not working the 4th through the 6th but I will test this when I get back into my shop on Monday. I will let you know what I find out then.

[sundownz 197]

I also sent a link to this thread to my repair tech so he can read over it

We'll get it figured out for you!

[sundownz 197]

Got this from Chris @ db-r, my repair tech:

"As for the SAZ-3000D problem, I don't know what's up.

I haven't noticed any of those problems with any of the amps

here at my shop, and if you haven't either then I have no idea what it

could be. I know for a fact that I turn them on and off in less than 30

seconds and don't have those problems ever."

Chris has seen every amp of every model that I sell that has been broken and returned for warranty - and he's never seen it either. All of the Class-D amps have the same turn-on / turn-off circuitry as well. So I'm not sure what it is that is making your amp go into protection yet.

I'll run some experiments @ my shop on Monday to see if I can cause an amp to do this.

[audio-neon 34]

Just a wild guess here but it sounds like the amp isn't shutting off completely and therefore it is most likely going into protect for low volatge/current.

Does your relay just shut off the power to the remote wire, or to the power wire as well. It should only shut off power to the remote wire, i'm not an amp designer by any means but I did have an issue last year where my battery terminal popped off and shutdown a pair of saz-1500d's (just the power wire, the deck and car was attached to the second post on the battery.) And the amps shutdown, but when I reconnected the batt. terminal they were both in protect. I had to completely shut them down and wait a minute for them to get them to come out of protect.

Also you mentioned that you are using two ground points, once again I'm no expert but im sure someone else could chime in here. Cant multiple ground points cause a looping of current effect. Also can you do me a favor if you have a digital multi meter and measure the impedance of your grounds and post that as well.

[theabunai 3]

I'd say put the speaker wires back on, put the RCA's back on, take ALL OTHER AMPS/EQUIPMENT off the remote line.. hook it directly to the decks remote output and try it that way...

you've changed to many things to narrow anything down... you tried to jump the remote to the batt but that was when you took off all the speaker wires and RCA's, I would isolate the remote wire without an external relay to the problem amp and reconnect the RCA and speaker wires... It could've been the remote turn on from the external relay putting it into protect originally, but when you tried to jump it maybe the discconected rca made it go into protect now, or the disconnected speakers... You may have solved the issue of the original protect mode but made it go into protect via another issue (no load on the amp)...

I would remove the external relay completely, remove all other equipment from the remote turn on line, hook everything back up, hook the Sundown amp directly to the decks remote turn on, don't jump it to any other power source... try that...

[sundownz 197]

Posted this on TriniTuner as well:

"One more idea... see if the relay in your system has some leakage. Measure the remote voltage on the amp when it SHOULD be off."

[3stagevtec 2]

ok guys, i sent back the amp to the supplier today.. i'm guessin he (the supplier) will send them back to you all at Sundown for checking of this problem..

i don't wanna make wild suggestions, but maybe something happened to them during shipping to Trinidad?? that could explain it?!?

audio-neon, the relay is only to activate the remote turn on leads on all my amps and crossover.. the other (mids & highs) amps and crossover working like normal... also, all the other amps are on the same positive battery and ground wires supplying the SAZ3000.. that should show that there wasn't a problem with the power source..

the multiple grounds shouldn't cause a problem imo.. i ran the main ground wire to a cleaned seat bolt.. and then another wire from that bolt to another cleaned ground point.. (hence the 2 grounding points)

theabunai,

you've changed to many things to narrow anything down... you tried to jump the remote to the batt but that was when you took off all the speaker wires and RCA's, I would isolate the remote wire without an external relay to the problem amp and reconnect the RCA and speaker wires... It could've been the remote turn on from the external relay putting it into protect originally, but when you tried to jump it maybe the discconected rca made it go into protect now, or the disconnected speakers... You may have solved the issue of the original protect mode but made it go into protect via another issue (no load on the amp)...

good point there, but remember that the amp did the exact same thing no matter what i tried.. and lets say i did do something wrong, the amps was still turning on (and playing) and after that not restarting.. it's really odd..

[pioneer 14]

Yes but did you try by-passing the relay and connecting your rca's and subwoofer to the amp?

[3stagevtec 2]

Posted this on TriniTuner as well:

"One more idea... see if the relay in your system has some leakage. Measure the remote voltage on the amp when it SHOULD be off."

BIG question.. would the amp go into protect mode IF the speaker wires (and RCA) are NOT connected??

[3stagevtec 2]

Yes but did you try by-passing the relay and connecting your rca's and subwoofer to the amp?

yuh know (i think) i didn't try that...

but if the RCAs and speaker wire was a problem, then why did the amp turn on with them disconnected?? shouldn't it have gone into protection mode immediately..

[bjustarzan 0]

hello jerry from sweden here i think it can be some thing whit your relay suply system disconect that and runn the remote wire directly from cd to amp nothing betwen such as relays and other amps only one wire from cd to amp and nothing more on to it try that before any thing ells also check so you have an 12v curent on the remote cable when its turnd on test that

best regards jerry

[sundownz 197]

This is the first I've heard of any such issue in hundred and hundreds of these amps shipped all over the world - so if there is a problem with the amp I'd be interested to know what it is. Especially, since you tried two amps.

I have not received contact from my Trinidad distributor about your amps - but I'd be interested to look @ them. I just find it incredibly hard to imagine you have two amps in a row with an issue I've never seen before on any amp in any model I sell - on amps that I pre-tested before shipment.

[3stagevtec 2]

relay check..

system voltage 12.98V

with music off, relay voltage read 0.00V

with music on, relay voltage read 12.86V (drop due to current draw from amps)

with music off, relay read 0.00V again..

[3stagevtec 2]

This is the first I've heard of any such issue in hundred and hundreds of these amps shipped all over the world - so if there is a problem with the amp I'd be interested to know what it is. Especially, since you tried two amps.

I have not received contact from my Trinidad distributor about your amps - but I'd be interested to look @ them. I just find it incredibly hard to imagine you have two amps in a row with an issue I've never seen before on any amp in any model I sell - on amps that I pre-tested before shipment.

when you test the amps, did you ever have to 'restart' them to bring up my problem..

when i 1st got it and hooked it up , it worked and i was happy.. is only when i went back the 2nd time to try it again, i noticed the problem..

Pioneer made an interesting point here..

Yes but did you try by-passing the relay and connecting your rca's and subwoofer to the amp?

well maybe that's a feature of the amp, if it didn't sense any load after the initial start up, it probably went into protection

think it might be valid in any way?

Edited July 5, 2008 by 3stagevtec

[Adrian_D 520]

i'd been told that you aren't suppose to turn on a class d amp with no load present, on high output class d amps. They will see 0 ohms and can damage them. This wasn't told to me from or reference to Sundown but just class d amps in general.

No load = infinity. Short = 0ohms.

I wonder who told you that class d amps see 0 ohms when they do not have a load on them...

3stagevtec did you try the amps in another setup ?

[sundownz 197]

Is it correct that it works fine when it powers on normally with the car and ONLY has any issues when you restart the amp ?

[3stagevtec 2]

yes, on the 1st try the amp worked normally, issues only came about during a restart (and when i started the engine with the deck on)..

BUT there were about 3 occasions where the amp took an unusually long time to start.. e.g. after i played it, i came upstairs to check on the forums, make replys, and after when i went back down, the amp wouldn't start.. maybe 10mins total.. (this long restart happened about 3 times if i remember correctly).. i assumed it just needed more time to 'rest'..

IF the problem was only with the restart, then i might have tried to live with that.. but then again, havin to wait close to a minute (sometimes more) to restart an amp would be frustrating.. and the long restart time worried me..

Adrian D, i had tried the amp on a 13.8V regulated power supply with nothing else connected.. same problem occured..

Edited July 6, 2008 by 3stagevtec

[loudcav 1]

If you unhook the 2 batteries from each other what is each ones voltage it kinda seems like you might of dropped one of the cells in one of the batteries cause they seem to be sitting a bit low for an AGM I know Ive got 3 Powemasters and they have been unhooked and sittng for a couple weeks and each one is reading about 13.1 volts. Im just kinda thinking that when you start the car back up its in a low voltage situation untill the alt can stabilize the voltage

[3stagevtec 2]

is only one Stinger battery i have and according to the manual, 12.85V when at rest is full charge..

i have 2 volt meters in the vehicle a well.. so i can always monitor the voltage easily..