3hp(?) recone questions

[sonikaccord 0]

I have a motor from an older eclipse titanium (88120ti), which I believe is a 3hp. It has a 6 bolt pattern, which fi uses, and I want to buy a 15" recone kit from them. I want the sub to be able to have flat freq. response from about 25hz up. I want to use a ported box tuned to about 3cu@28hz. I want the sub to pound on the bass tracks (rap), but also groove on tracks with a bass guitar (r&b,jazz, some rock). If I can get the money, I plan on powering it with an eclipse da7232.

So my question, can this be accomplished with this motor and fi soft parts? Also, how big of a difference is there between a ported 15 and a sealed 18?

[sonikaccord 0]

anyone??

[Kovemaster559 1]

i honestly like ported anything but id stick to ported 15 if you have the room

[sonikaccord 0]

yeah I was thinking ported would be better, but I don't want to use all of my trunk space. I'm guessing a 3cu@28hz ported box will end up being larger than a 4cu sealed box.

[sonikaccord 0]

up again

[NDMstang65 403]

Motor has to be re machined for the 12 spoke baskets that we use so it has to be sent in to do a recone...pretty sure the pattern is different on the Ti basket than ours...

I'll check on that though.

[Robert_J 0]

I've built recones on both Fi supplied baskets as well as an Eclipse TI style basket with the six hole pattern. Both bolted to a TC-9 motor without any issues. It's the 3HP motor with the 4 bolt pattern that has to be re-machined to fit.

-Robert

[stovebolt6 3]

if it is a 3hp for an eclipse sub it should be the kind with a threaded top plate.

if it is than all that is need is a machined aluminum ring that is threaded on the inside, but has the six hole threaded pattern on it then you just bolt it to the basket.

that way no permanent mods done to the motor.

in fact if it a threaded top plate eclipse look at the basket you should have that threaded ring adapter bolted to the basket you might have to remove the soft parts to get to it.

but if it is in there it should have the 6 bolt pattern.

Edited July 8, 2008 by stovebolt6

[sonikaccord 0]

The top plate isnt threaded. Im going to upload some pics in a minute

Edited July 8, 2008 by sonikaccord

[stovebolt6 3]

neat i never seen that top plate before but it does appear to be a standard 6 bolt pattern (never owned a 8800 series sub either lol).

i have a question what is the overall diameter of the slugs and there thickness of each slug?

reason i ask is 3hp's are usually 3-3/4" slugs that are iirc. 7 9/16" or 7 3/4" can't remember exactly.

just wondering for my own personal curiosity.

on the 3hp's with a threaded top plate they have a standard 6 bolt pattern also but the holes are not threaded yet.

but the threaded portion's overall diameter stops a standard basket from slipping over it, and mating with the bolt holes.

[NDMstang65 403]

Ah ok, but that's not a 3hp..or not the 3hp that i know.

Yes we can recone that, however we do not have any gap dimensions for that motor..

[sonikaccord 0]

neat i never seen that top plate before but it does appear to be a standard 6 bolt pattern (never owned a 8800 series sub either lol).

i have a question what is the overall diameter of the slugs and there thickness of each slug?

reason i ask is 3hp's are usually 3-3/4" slugs that are iirc. 7 9/16" or 7 3/4" can't remember exactly.

just wondering for my own personal curiosity.

on the 3hp's with a threaded top plate they have a standard 6 bolt pattern also but the holes are not threaded yet.

but the threaded portion's overall diameter stops a standard basket from slipping over it, and mating with the bolt holes.

The slugs are 3/4" thick and a little more than 7 1/2 inches wide.

[sonikaccord 0]

Im guessing that I need a micrometer to measure the gap, but shouldn't it be the same as the eclipse titanium SW9122?

[sonikaccord 0]

up

[NDMstang65 403]

Yes you need a digital micrometer to measure the width of the gap and the height of the top plate..

[Robert_J 0]

The extended top plate/pole piece will stick up through the bottom of a standard 12 spoke basket and give you very little room for backwards movement of the cone. That motor was designed to work with the Eclipse style basket or the ones that are used with the TC-3000/Audiopulse Axis/Lightning Audio Storm. Those have HUGE amounts of clearance below the spider landing.

You can build up some type of spacer to move your basket/motor joint even with the top plate. I had to do that with my 18" recones from Fi. They were designed to mate with my 3HP motors but I decided to use them with TC-9 motors. I used a pair of 5/8" stainless steel nuts on each of the 6 bolts. They were placed between the motor and the bottom of the basket. The width of each nut was 1/4" so a pair gave me the 1/2" clearance that I needed. I got the idea from a recone that was for sale in the Sundown section. In your case, I think the spacer may need to be a little thicker. In my quest for a spacer, I looked at everything from aluminum to MDF. I lacked the tools for creating one out of metal and MDF is great as long as it is dry. I almost went with Corian (solid surface countertop material). It is machinable like MDF and extremely strong as far as compression strength goes. It is also waterproof so that it will not absorb moisture. Finally, it is available all over Ebay with people selling scraps from kitchen and bathroom remodels.

-Robert

[sonikaccord 0]

I would prefer if the basket bolted straight to the magnet. I emailed eclipse about the gap dimensions and hopefully they will respond or I may call them on monday. I thought the rl-p's used 3hp's too.

[Robert_J 0]

I would prefer if the basket bolted straight to the magnet.

Then you need to use a basket other than the standard 12 spoke that Fi will supply. The Eclipse and TC-3000 style both use 10" spiders that Fi does not carry. If you really want this reconed, then Patrick from Robot Underground can supply you with the parts. And when I say parts, it is that. Not a drop-in recone kit. You have to glue everything together and make sure that you get the voice coil centered in the magnetic gap. When I built a sub with parts from RU, I had to rig up a set of spacers to make sure I glued my spiders to my voice coil in the correct location. I learned a LOT building a sub. If I was doing this for a living, I'd have jigs built for everything to take the guesswork out of the equation.

I emailed eclipse about the gap dimensions and hopefully they will respond or I may call them on monday.

I seriously doubt that you will hear anything from Eclipse. And talking to them would be a waste of your time. Go to AVS Forums and contact a member named Kyle Lee. He is the same Kyle that would answer the phone when you called TC Sounds. He MAY know. No guarantees. You have the motor in your hands so measuring is the best method.

I thought the rl-p's used 3hp's too.

The RL-p's use TC9 motors. They look like this. The 3HP has a much taller top plate. Yours is a little different. With a basket on it, it looks like a TC9 but the extented center of the motor makes it a 3HP.

Think about the adapter plate a little more. It will be your least expensive route to take.

-Robert

[sonikaccord 0]

Thx Robert, you've been alot of help. I will try to get in contact with Patrick and see what he can do for me. I am willing to build a sub from the bottom up, but if he can't help me out, then I will have to make an adapter.

[Robert_J 0]

I've posted this before but if you haven't seen it, it may help. link I built a 12" sub from scratch with parts from RU.

-Robert

[sonikaccord 0]

The recone from RU will run me about $300. The adapter plate is looking pretty good right now, lol. But will it affect the subs performance.

[Robert_J 0]

$300!!!!! Da-um!!!! I don't think Patrick wants to sell many kits. I have a pair of TC-3000's that need a recone. I'll price them from him but I've already figured out a way to use an 8" spider on my baskets that normally use a 10" one.

The adapter plate will not impact the sub's performance one single bit.

Have you taken any measurements of the motor yet? How tall is that extended part of the top plate?

-Robert

[sonikaccord 0]

He said he wants 200 for the recone parts and an extra 100 for the frame. Couldn't I just buy the frame and source the soft parts somewhere else?

The extended part of the top plate is one inch. The pole piece is another 5/8" above that.

[sonikaccord 0]

If I buy an 18" recone from fi, how would it perform IB with this motor?

[Robert_J 0]

He said he wants 200 for the recone parts and an extra 100 for the frame. Couldn't I just buy the frame and source the soft parts somewhere else?

The Lightning Audio/TC 3000 frames use a 10" spider. We have been asking Fi for 10" spiders for over a year. Again, you can make an adapter but you will have to send in the motor to Fi for a recone because the measurements from the spider landing to top plate, spider landing to surround landing, etc. will be different from standard. ED and PAP may sell you parts instead of a kit.

The extended part of the top plate is one inch. The pole piece is another 5/8" above that.

If I buy an 18" recone from fi, how would it perform IB with this motor?

Let's say that on a normal 3HP motor, there would be 40mm from the spider landing on the frame to the top of the pole piece. That means your xmech is 40mm or you have 40mm before your spider crashes into the pole. Now mount your motor to the same basket. Instead of an xmech of 40 mm, you would have an xmech of 11.7mm. Since 1in = 28.3mm, you are moving both the top plate and the top of the pole 1" closer to the spider landing and losing 28.3 mm of rear mechanical excursion. That's why you need a 1" adapter plate.

Buy the material and send it to me. I'll make you an adapter plate. Or you can use some spacers that are available at Lowes. They are in the nuts and bolts section called Nylon spacers. They are white but you can paint them. They look EXACTLY like this. Just make sure your bolt barely fits into the hole in them. Or get them in chromed steel.

Your bolts should be 1/4-20. With my 1/2" spacer, I used 1/4-20 x 1" stainless steel machine screws with an oval phillips head by Hillman. With your 1" spacer, you will need the same size but 1.5" long. The stainless steel bolts were more expensive but they are not very magnetic. Nice if you happen to drop one. You don't need to get a hernia pulling it off the top plate. I also used blue Loc-Tite on the threads of each bolt to make sure they will not back out.

With the spacers or an adapter plate, you can just request a standard 3HP recone kit and basket from Fi. You can have it put together in an hour and the expoxy cured in 24 hours.

As for actual IB performance, this motor is a little overkill. But Scott and crew and basically build you anything you want. I got my IB recone kits from him after explaining what I was going to use them for and my amp.

-Robert