i need help picking an amp plate

[slim2fattycake 85]

i want to drive two sundown sd1-v1 at 4 ohms. i was looking at the Megabass ll

[Robert_J 0]

The B.A.S.H. amps from PE are always a good choice. They have been used for years with great success by companies like SVS and Klipsch. As for the size of the amp you need, that is totally dependent on the alignment you choose. If you are going with a large, ported enclosure, you will not need as much power as with a small, sealed enclsoure.

Before you can determine what drivers or amps you need, you have to set your goals. What are your listening preferences? Home theater, music or both? Percentage of each? How large of a room are you putting this in? Do you listen at Dolby Digital reference levels or lower? Finally, what is your budget?

-Robert

[dem beats 1,223]

I would listen to robert there, or perhaps a pro audio amp.

[patented17 21]

My Bash 300s has been working great with my avalanche.

[slim2fattycake 85]

The B.A.S.H. amps from PE are always a good choice. They have been used for years with great success by companies like SVS and Klipsch. As for the size of the amp you need, that is totally dependent on the alignment you choose. If you are going with a large, ported enclosure, you will not need as much power as with a small, sealed enclsoure.

Before you can determine what drivers or amps you need, you have to set your goals. What are your listening preferences? Home theater, music or both? Percentage of each? How large of a room are you putting this in? Do you listen at Dolby Digital reference levels or lower? Finally, what is your budget?

-Robert

i will be watching movies mostly, but occasional party music. i would like to go sealed. i like to spend as least as possible. i would however like to fully power the sd1-v1's. i will have this setup with a yamaha rx-v663 receiver. i have two sets of tower speakers, two rear cubes, 1 center speaker. the room is my basement but not the whole basement. i would be using about 15ftx15ft max. for the entertainment area.

[audio-neon 34]

The sd1-12 I built will be seeing a bash 300 as soon as my friend gives me money for the amp.

[slim2fattycake 85]

so is the Megabass amp no good?

[Robert_J 0]

so is the Megabass amp no good?

It look exactly like the 270w amp that Parts Express used to sell. Even the transformer on the back of the plate. And I say EXACTLY because I have one sitting on my office floor about 3 feet from me. I don't know how they came up with those power numbers using the same sized transform. On the other hand, if it is the amp that PE used to sell, then I think it was built by Keiga and is a quality amp that has been in production for years.

i will be watching movies mostly, but occasional party music. i would like to go sealed. i like to spend as least as possible. i would however like to fully power the sd1-v1's. i will have this setup with a yamaha rx-v663 receiver. i have two sets of tower speakers, two rear cubes, 1 center speaker. the room is my basement but not the whole basement. i would be using about 15ftx15ft max. for the entertainment area.

I just modeled a pair of drivers in Unibox. In a sealed, 2 cubic foot box with a 500w plate amp (ssf set at 18hz), you have a Qtc of .431, an Fb of 46.77 hz and an F3 of 29.5 hz. Throughout the passband the driver is always below xmax (just barely sometimes). It looks like a great sub that should perform well for both movies and music.

-Robert

[slim2fattycake 85]

this is where i found that amp http://www.megabassbob.com/

[slim2fattycake 85]

i was talking to a elemental rep earlier about their amp plates but in the process i got to look at other amp plates with more power. i was thinking if i scratched that idea of 2 sd1 v1's and use my 12" fi ssd with an elemental LT/1300 (its supposed to be made by Keiga), what do you think about that? should i go with sealed still if i did that?

[Robert_J 0]

i was talking to a elemental rep earlier about their amp plates but in the process i got to look at other amp plates with more power. i was thinking if i scratched that idea of 2 sd1 v1's and use my 12" fi ssd with an elemental LT/1300 (its supposed to be made by Keiga), what do you think about that? should i go with sealed still if i did that?

According to ED, their amps do not come with a subsonic filter so I would definitely run the SSD sealed. 41L, heavily stuffed. The LT/1300 is WAAAYYYYY overkill for that sub. I modeled it with 500w of input power (like the LT/500 with no SSF) and it graphs great. You won't exceed xmax ever but you very close starting at 20hz.

-Robert

[slim2fattycake 85]

i had my ssd on around 1200 watts in my car so i think it shouldnt be too bad with 1300w if i kept the level down. I like a lot of headroom. the ssd has flatwind coils and bp option on it also. its more than double the wattage for 100 dollars. o and about the subsonic filter, if i hook the amp into the subwoofer line, wouldnt the receiver control the frequencies going to the sub amp? http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/product...DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

thats the receiver i am going to have 2morrow.

could you explain more: "You won't exceed xmax ever but you very close starting at 20hz.". ima noob.

[slim2fattycake 85]

i was looking at the behringer, http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=248-745

but the rep said that with the lt1300 amp plate, i can go straight from amp to receiver without xlr conversions. and that the behringer would have more noise due to running fan.

Edited June 25, 2008 by phi

[Robert_J 0]

i had my ssd on around 1200 watts in my car so i think it shouldnt be too bad with 1300w if i kept the level down. I like a lot of headroom. the ssd has flatwind coils and bp option on it also. its more than double the wattage for 100 dollars. o and about the subsonic filter, if i hook the amp into the subwoofer line, wouldnt the receiver control the frequencies going to the sub amp? .... could you explain more: "You won't exceed xmax ever but you very close starting at 20hz.". I AM A noob.

In the car you listened to music. Low bass in music is 30hz at the most. Action movies have MUCH lower bass. A good one will have special effects around 20hz. A few go extremely low with material down to 8hz. Now, the RMS rating on all subs is thermal only. They run a 1,000hz tone through the voice coil until it melts after a period of time. In home theater this rating is useless. In this environment subs are excursion limited. As you go down an octave, excursion quadruples at the same SPL. That means if you listened to music with a 30hz note and pushed the excursion out to 15mm, then at the same volume a 15hz explosion in a movie would send the sub out 60mm. An SSD can't move that much. You will either smash the voice coil into the back plate or rip the spider and tinsel leads going the other way. But you will have a dead woofer.

I use the Unibox spreadsheet to model all of my designs. I adjust the simulated input power and look at the excursion graph from 10hz to 200hz. If the graph hits xmax at any point, I lower the input power and check it again. Here's the graph:

i was looking at the behringer, http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=248-745

but the rep said that with the lt1300 amp plate, i can go straight from amp to receiver without xlr conversions. and that the behringer would have more noise due to running fan.

What did you expect an ED salesperson to say? "Go ahead and don't buy our product." I run an EP-2500 in my home theater. I use a $5 cable from Radio Shack to go from RCA to 1/4" mono phono plug. I swapped the fan in my amp for a low flow, 24v Panaflow model from Digikey. Cost was $10 and it took 15 minutes to install.

-Robert

[slim2fattycake 85]

so, if i went with the behringer ep1500, i would mess up my sub? then what should i get instead? and does the ep amp have a subsonic filter? i was also lookin at the mods for the ep amps.

or should i just stick with the plan of 2 sd1-v1?

Edited June 26, 2008 by phi

[Robert_J 0]

The EP series amps have a defeatable SSF at 30hz or 50hz. That is perfect for live audio which is what they are designed for. I accidentally set my SSF to 30hz when I first set up my amp. I was completely dissapointed in the output. After two hours of searching, I realized my mistake and fixed it. The low bass in action movies just flowed then. It was great.

Using a more powerful amp on your sub doesn't necessarily mean that you will damage it. It could last for years in a properly calibrated system. But most people don't take the time to properly calibrate their system and they also run their sub way too hot trying to recreate the same experience that they can feel in the car. That just won't work unless your media room is actually a closet.

Looking at the graphs from both the Sundown subs and the Fi sub, it is pretty much a toss up as to which one to use. The Fi does require a smaller enclosure but output from both is similar. Either way you are building a sub that will crush anything available from the big box stores like Best Buy and Circuit City. You are getting into the high end sub arena that is dominated by Epik Subwoofers and SVS.

-Robert

[slim2fattycake 85]

The EP series amps have a defeatable SSF at 30hz or 50hz. That is perfect for live audio which is what they are designed for. I accidentally set my SSF to 30hz when I first set up my amp. I was completely dissapointed in the output. After two hours of searching, I realized my mistake and fixed it. The low bass in action movies just flowed then. It was great.

what do you mean by defeatable ssf? and what did you fix after you had the ssf set to 30hz?

Using a more powerful amp on your sub doesn't necessarily mean that you will damage it. It could last for years in a properly calibrated system. But most people don't take the time to properly calibrate their system and they also run their sub way too hot trying to recreate the same experience that they can feel in the car. That just won't work unless your media room is actually a closet.

yea, the car feel is not going to happen because my basement is huge. i will be sitting down and reading the manual and asking more questions before i really start watching or listening to anything.

Looking at the graphs from both the Sundown subs and the Fi sub, it is pretty much a toss up as to which one to use. The Fi does require a smaller enclosure but output from both is similar. Either way you are building a sub that will crush anything available from the big box stores like Best Buy and Circuit City. You are getting into the high end sub arena that is dominated by Epik Subwoofers and SVS.

i think i will go with the SSD for the smaller enclosure. so i should go sealed with what lenths for length, width, and height? also, should i have it firing downward or towards the audience or towards a wall?

and if i havent said this yet, i want to say you are a god among men. thanks for the help. i can only give you an e-beer for now.

[Robert_J 0]

what do you mean by defeatable ssf? and what did you fix after you had the ssf set to 30hz?

Download the instruction manual for the EP amp from Musicians Friend, Guitar Center or even Behringer. On the back, there is a set of DIP switches. One is a setting for the SSF at 30hz or 50hz. The other is setting the SSF to On or Off. I had mine set to On accidentally. There was no really low bass coming from my pair of 15's. I checked the manual again and noticed I had the switch set wrong so I changed. Tried the same demo and was blown away.

yea, the car feel is not going to happen because my basement is huge. i will be sitting down and reading the manual and asking more questions before i really start watching or listening to anything.

Proper calibration is key in the home theater. I use a Pioneer VSX-1014 that has MCACC. I place the included mic on a tripod which puts it at ear level in my seat. It takes a few minutes to run through the automated calibration but it sets EQ, level, distance and crossover for all of the speakers. I do tweak it a little after that If your receiver doesn't have something like this, then you need to do it manually. I used to use a DVD called Video Essentials and a Rat Shack SPL meter for my calibration. I still use it for video adjustments. But it took much longer to set up levels, there was no automated EQ and setting the distance required that my wife sit in my seat and I measured from each ear to the speaker (I'm that anal about getting things set up correctly). I also use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer as a 12 band parametric EQ to flatten my sub's frequency response. But that's another thread.

i think i will go with the SSD for the smaller enclosure. so i should go sealed with what lenths for length, width, and height? also, should i have it firing downward or towards the audience or towards a wall?

and if i havent said this yet, i want to say you are a god among men. thanks for the help. i can only give you an e-beer for now.

I'm only a guy that has a passion for sound. I've learned a lot from the forums and I add my own experiences. As long as that e-beer is a Lazy Magnolia Southern Pecan Nut Brown Ale, I'll gladly accept it.

-Robert

Edited June 26, 2008 by Robert_J

[slim2fattycake 85]

Download the instruction manual for the EP amp from Musicians Friend, Guitar Center or even Behringer. On the back, there is a set of DIP switches. One is a setting for the SSF at 30hz or 50hz. The other is setting the SSF to On or Off. I had mine set to On accidentally. There was no really low bass coming from my pair of 15's. I checked the manual again and noticed I had the switch set wrong so I changed. Tried the same demo and was blown away.

So, if i switch off the ssf at 30hz then i will have to be really care about the stuff i play and the level its at, right?

Proper calibration is key in the home theater. I use a Pioneer VSX-1014 that has MCACC. I place the included mic on a tripod which puts it at ear level in my seat. It takes a few minutes to run through the automated calibration but it sets EQ, level, distance and crossover for all of the speakers. I do tweak it a little after that If your receiver doesn't have something like this, then you need to do it manually. I used to use a DVD called Video Essentials and a Rat Shack SPL meter for my calibration. I still use it for video adjustments. But it took much longer to set up levels, there was no automated EQ and setting the distance required that my wife sit in my seat and I measured from each ear to the speaker (I'm that anal about getting things set up correctly). I also use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer as a 12 band parametric EQ to flatten my sub's frequency response. But that's another thread.

my receiver is supposed to come today, i guess in a couple of hours. but it has a calibration mic as well. the receiver is a yamaha rx-v663. i think it has everything i need especially under $400. i also just bought the behringer ep1500. i used a 10% off to get it for under $250. . do you think i should have that destroyer in my system?

i think i will go with the SSD for the smaller enclosure. so i should go sealed with what lenths for length, width, and height? also, should i have it firing downward or towards the audience or towards a wall?

so, what should the volume of the box be and which way should if fire it?

I'm only a guy that has a passion for sound. I've learned a lot from the forums and I add my own experiences. As long as that e-beer is a Lazy Magnolia Southern Pecan Nut Brown Ale, I'll gladly accept it.

-Robert

lol. that sounds really good though. i should get something like that ready so when im doing setting everything up, i could just sit back and enjoy a cold one with the awesome theater im going to have.

[Robert_J 0]

According to Unibox, I modeled it as a 41L (1.44 cubic foot) enclosure. If you aren't very sure about plans, etc. then use the sealed plans here. By the time you subtract for bracing and driver displacement you will be very close. I would go with downfiring if you have a pet that might destroy the driver (chewing dogs or cats that sharpen their claws) or a kid (too many negative things to list). Just put 4 legs on the box and face the woofer down. I would go with 3" on hardwood or 4" or carpet. Use a dowel rod from Home Depot or Lowes and cut it to length.

-Robert

[slim2fattycake 85]

i dont have kids, im 20, and no dogs or anything that could mess it up. i was wanting to fire it at the audience. how about that? and what do you mean 3" on hardwood or 4" on carpet? and what is a dowel rod for?

and is that 1.44cubic ft after bracing and sub? and do i have to have those holes in the bracing? can i go with different dimensions rather than just a cube?

[Robert_J 0]

i dont have kids, im 20, and no dogs or anything that could mess it up. i was wanting to fire it at the audience. how about that? and what do you mean 3" on hardwood or 4" on carpet? and what is a dowel rod for?

and is that 1.44cubic ft after bracing and sub? and do i have to have those holes in the bracing? can i go with different dimensions rather than just a cube?

In an earlier post you asked about dimensions (length, width and height). I didn't know your woodworking skill level so I wasn't sure if you could do the conversion from L to a box in inches. You can use any shape box as long as the net volume is 1.44cf. And bracing can be anything you want. That is the best along with window pane braces.

I enjoy my forward facing subs very much. In brighter scenes of a movie I can see them move. But mine do have silver, titanium cones so they reflect more light.

The dowel was for legs if you wanted a downfiring sub.

-Robert

[slim2fattycake 85]

yea, i guess im going to be firing it forward. i like to see it move. hehe. i am going to be building this with no box building experience before hand, but i got some help around me that may point me the right way when im doing something wrong. is your box a cube? because i would like the height to be the greatest dimensions but i dont want the possibility of the box falling forward due to the weight of the sub.

and i would like to ask you about the behringer amp. is the fan really that bad to do the mod? i dont want to mess up the warranty if its not worth it.

[Robert_J 0]

and i would like to ask you about the behringer amp. is the fan really that bad to do the mod? i dont want to mess up the warranty if its not worth it.

The stock fan sounds like a small airplane motor. Unless you are putting the amp in a closet, you must swap the fan.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy...ger-ep2500.html

It's a long thread. I used it for basic info. Picked up a Panaflow fan from DigiKey and used a power connector from a PC power supply that connects to a 3.5" floppy drive. I had to modify it with a pair of pliers and a Dremel to get it to fit. But 20 minutes later, I had an extremely quiet amp.

My box is not a cube. In fact, they are still in their test boxes. I never quite finished the real boxes.

-Robert

Edited June 27, 2008 by Robert_J

[slim2fattycake 85]

and i would like to ask you about the behringer amp. is the fan really that bad to do the mod? i dont want to mess up the warranty if its not worth it.

The stock fan sounds like a small airplane motor. Unless you are putting the amp in a closet, you must swap the fan.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy...ger-ep2500.html

It's a long thread. I used it for basic info. Picked up a Panaflow fan from DigiKey and used a power connector from a PC power supply that connects to a 3.5" floppy drive. I had to modify it with a pair of pliers and a Dremel to get it to fit. But 20 minutes later, I had an extremely quiet amp.

My box is not a cube. In fact, they are still in their test boxes. I never quite finished the real boxes.

-Robert

so a small airplane motor, like a toy plane or a real small plane? lol. but yea i think its goin in a cabinet. so what signs should i look for before my sub is about to die because its playing before 20hz?

and i like your cherry stain or w/e.

Edited June 27, 2008 by phi