i think i wanna buy a hand gun

[topgun 262]

I am also firm in that you should ONLY fire hollow or some other high stopping low penetrating round.

I hope this is in reference to a carry/self defense gun only...

[mrray13 30]

My 1911 can be carried cocked and ready and still have 2-3 safety's to go however.

huh? a 1911 has two safeties..the thumb which is used for the cock and lock, and the grip dafety. unless you have one i know nothing about, how could yours have 3? or 2-3 AFTER the thumb?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Matt2105 2]

Springfield, HK, and Sig. 3 of my favs though the last 2 can get pricey.

Really, you just need to go to a store and hold a few. Buy the one that fits your hand. Comfort is the most important thing when buying a handgun imo. Calibers up to you. 9mm rounds will be the cheapest but will lack the power of the .45. The .40 is kind of a best of both worlds. You get more power than the 9mm, and more capacity than the .45.

[jonbearsmt 919]

well i plan on taking courses and whatnot.. im not just gonna buy a 9 and cram it in my pants like a cholo

[ford302redneck 15]

I'm not going to lie, the prospect of you carrying a weapon is frightening. But at least I'm not in your area...

lol, I own 3 Shotguns and 2 rifles, just not a handgun yet.

But times are getting tough, and the area I live in is on the rough side.

Well less than 4 miles away is really bad Crack neighborhood.

[mrray13 30]

I'm not going to lie, the prospect of you carrying a weapon is frightening. But at least I'm not in your area...

lol, I own 3 Shotguns and 2 rifles, just not a handgun yet.

But times are getting tough, and the area I live in is on the rough side.

Well less than 4 miles away is really bad Crack neighborhood.

i believe jim was referring to the OP, but i could be wrong, lol. it's happened before.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[jonbearsmt 919]

I'm not going to lie, the prospect of you carrying a weapon is frightening. But at least I'm not in your area...

lol, I own 3 Shotguns and 2 rifles, just not a handgun yet.

But times are getting tough, and the area I live in is on the rough side.

Well less than 4 miles away is really bad Crack neighborhood.

i believe jim was referring to the OP, but i could be wrong, lol. it's happened before.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

i thought so aswell, but i never got a responce.

[mrray13 30]

lol, give him time jon...lol

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Acidburn 10]

it could be either of them really

[jonbearsmt 919]

it wa sa very broud statment

[mrray13 30]

it could be either of them really

true, true....

so jon...

any ideas what you are looking at?

i love these kind of topics. hehe

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[dem beats 1,223]

I am also firm in that you should ONLY fire hollow or some other high stopping low penetrating round.

I hope this is in reference to a carry/self defense gun only...

yep.

I think I typed that on my 2nd or 3rd gimlet or so.

[dem beats 1,223]

I was thinking and the XD is also a nice weapon and low cost. Again .45 is my recomendation. It fits my shorter finders better than my 1911 actualy, and a larger round capacity. The number one thing you need to look for is what will stop the person, and what is confortable to you.

[helotaxi 46]

My 1911 can be carried cocked and ready and still have 2-3 safety's to go however.

huh? a 1911 has two safeties..the thumb which is used for the cock and lock, and the grip dafety. unless you have one i know nothing about, how could yours have 3? or 2-3 AFTER the thumb?

The Colt 80 series had a firing pin block as well. It was a POS and there is a reason that they aren't made anymore. Once again they tried to change the perfect pistol and only effed it up.

As far as what chambering, two schools of thought: one carry as many rounds as possible before needing a reload. The other is end the fight with the first shot. Two schools of though on that as well. First is carry a large caliber that does the damage with the first shot. With the early 9mm rounds, the hollow points were crap and couldn't be relied on. Not so anymore. The second thought is carry something that you are comfortable and consistent shooting. If your carry gun is small, packing a .45 or a 10mm makes for a genuinely punishing gun to shoot. That leaves you less likely to practice (both for the recoil and the cost of ammo) and also more likely to develop a flinch which keeps you from hitting with the limited number of large bore rounds that you have.

I have come to think that carrying as many rounds as possible in a caliber that is comfortable to shoot in my chosen weapon is the proper course of action. In a compact, 9mm is a perfectly viable round. It's also pretty much the cheapest to shoot regularly. For a full size a double stack .45 is really nice. My dad has a Glock 21 (full size .45) and I can't stand it. Shoots really nice for the first few rounds but then the weight has changed so much (the ammo is a significant part of the weight of the weapon) that muzzle flip starts getting excessive and recoil starts getting really uncomfortable. I'll probably never own a polymer frame .45 for just that reason.

Planning to buy 2-3 handguns when I get home (and an AR-15 or two as well). A Ruger SR9 will be one along with a compact 9mm for the wife and a fairly compact 9mm (probably Sig 250) for myself.

[mrray13 30]

have you tried the g21sf? the new slim frame makes for a far more comfortable, and controllable, grip. i love my glock 21sf, and i couldn't stand a glcok before. i can run a few hundred rounds through it and not bat an eye. mine doesn't have the full pictanny rail either, so standard holsters work.

9mm to me is still a bit too fast, too small. true, new ammo technology is greatly leveling the playing field, and capacity is an advantage. but for my money, 13 rounds of 230gr hp .45 or 14 rds of 165gr hp .40 is more then enough. i pray if i have to use either/or, it doesn't go past the first 2 or 3.

but otherwise, i think you are spot on

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[jonbearsmt 919]

it could be either of them really

true, true....

so jon...

any ideas what you are looking at?

i love these kind of topics. hehe

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

i think the next step for me is gonna be to see what fits well in my large man hands, and then go from there,

[dem beats 1,223]

I have half cock, if you count that, dove tail, thumb, and if you want I have seen a trigger engaged safety somewhere...

I am more on the side of mrray. The power you can purchace with a .45 acp round is worth every penny, and they come in all sizes. I also feel if you need more than 4-5 rounds, it's a gun fight, and not self defence, or your aim is WAY off. The security of having it though is the best.

I think a conceal and cary weapon should be the most versitle weapon for protectign yourself from iminent life threatening danger. I always talk to people about ther difference in a 9mm vs .45. 9mm is a stab wound, .45 is a sledge hammer. I would rather push back or knock down a methed up super freak than just puncture holes through him and hope he bleeds out before he clears the 10' to get to me. In a police incident near my house a 9mm made it clear through a house where the police were doing a drug bust. The hit an officer though a thin wall on the other side. This is an extreme and unlikely incident, but if you can use something to help reduce penitration and increase the transfer of more massive force into the intended target I say WIN WIN.

It's not possible to see what or who is imediately and directly behind your human target, and if your trying to shoot a guy down through a door, you have seen too many movies.

[helotaxi 46]

If you have big hands (mine are broad across the palm) really compact pistols in high power calibers are almost impossible to shoot. I just can't get enough fingers on the grip to hang on. A gun that's difficult to shoot is not very useful in a defensive situation.

If you think that you need more than a 9mm (90+ percent one shot stops with good ammo) you are compensating for something. If you are genuinely concerned about dope fiends, practice failure drills. 2 to the center of mass, if that doesn't get the job done then you hit a failure point (head, hip, knee). Take out a failure point and they are out of the fight, period.

[mrray13 30]

If you have big hands (mine are broad across the palm) really compact pistols in high power calibers are almost impossible to shoot. I just can't get enough fingers on the grip to hang on. A gun that's difficult to shoot is not very useful in a defensive situation.

If you think that you need more than a 9mm (90+ percent one shot stops with good ammo) you are compensating for something. If you are genuinely concerned about dope fiends, practice failure drills. 2 to the center of mass, if that doesn't get the job done then you hit a failure point (head, hip, knee). Take out a failure point and they are out of the fight, period.

no argument with that first paragraph. matter of fact, i wanted to quote it just so it got said twice.

i don't think if a person is wanting more then a 9mm he/she is compensating. it's just a matter of opinion and in some cases, fit. in my case, i simply don't like the 9mm round. i think some of the issue has to do with some old school though, bigger is better. it is a secure feeling for some to know that they are packing 13rds of 230 jhp .45. and they are more confident. mind thing.

i would like to point out that you really hit on two things, quality ammo and practice. when deciding what one wants to carry, they need to decide on quality ammo and practice or even the best made gun is compromised. and i think they are often overlooked. with the right ammo, even the .32acp and .380acp can achieve a 90% one shot stop ratio. wrong ammo, that will drop to 50% quickly. but without practice and putting the ammo where it needs to be, those numbers will go down as well.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Godsmack 361]

One of these days I will get a hand cannon of my own..............And IMO the failure point comment is dead on. If all else fails make them stop walking, or stop thinking. Granted if a gun is coming out, i am not gonna be aiming to stop you, but aiming to kill you.

J

[vladd 26]

I agree with kent, and helotaxi in this situation.

I love the 9mm round for practice, because it's cheap. The same reason my .22 woodsman gets shot more than all my other guns put together.

but, for a defensive round i'd probably never carry it. Do i think it won't do the job? no, i'm sure it would, i just hate the round. I don't control the recoil of a 9mm as well as i control the .45acp. The 9mm isn't nearly as accurate to me (could be the recoil). but in the end i just don't like the round.

I'm not a fan of bigger = better in gun calibers. If you can squeeze off a clip of .32 and put them all at the same spot you'll do more than enough damage. If you can put two .45s together but you don't shoot the gun well and hit his shoulder both times it isn't going to help you at all. Carry what you're comfortable with first and foremost.

And one thing that i see way too often. SHOOT YOUR DAMN CARRY GUN. Practice with it often or you'll never even manage to pull it, let alone hit your target.

I shoot my .22s more than anything but every time i go to the range i shoot my 1911. Granted it's not a real "carry" gun but it's what i carry when i'm in the car. Being at lovely VaTech i'm not legally allowed to carry most any other time.

[ford302redneck 15]

I'm not going to lie, the prospect of you carrying a weapon is frightening. But at least I'm not in your area...

lol, I own 3 Shotguns and 2 rifles, just not a handgun yet.

But times are getting tough, and the area I live in is on the rough side.

Well less than 4 miles away is really bad Crack neighborhood.

i believe jim was referring to the OP, but i could be wrong, lol. it's happened before.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Heck, Jim always says stuff like this to me, so I figured it was towards me.

Shoot who knows.

[buickid 0]

well i plan on taking courses and whatnot.. im not just gonna buy a 9 and cram it in my pants like a cholo

haha but if you do, pics.

[dem beats 1,223]

If you have big hands (mine are broad across the palm) really compact pistols in high power calibers are almost impossible to shoot. I just can't get enough fingers on the grip to hang on. A gun that's difficult to shoot is not very useful in a defensive situation.

If you think that you need more than a 9mm (90+ percent one shot stops with good ammo) you are compensating for something. If you are genuinely concerned about dope fiends, practice failure drills. 2 to the center of mass, if that doesn't get the job done then you hit a failure point (head, hip, knee). Take out a failure point and they are out of the fight, period.

I think you have good points, great in fact. Nothing wrong with the statement accept the compensating thing, I think that's kind of rude. I also think you have probably shot many many many many more rounds and maybe even been in a combat situation and I have not. I can't shoot ANYTHING with a small grip as the thickness of my palm also.

Try to clear your head of your experience in the field for a moment though and lets take a look at what someone needs from a self defense weapon. The ability to shoot that gun and deal with the recoil from that weapon, and the abilility to conceal. From there I strongly feel your description of hitting a failure point is going to be verry unlikely for someone not in daily practice especialy when you take into account the lack of high adrenalyn training. If you haven't been in a situation before you will shake.

I'm 100% all about the ability to stop someone in one shot. If I had a magic freeze the bad guy gun and it would do no harm to the surrounding people and to the assailent but would completely stop him, I would pick that. I think that is where my point and message gets lost. I know that people come up with cost frequently, but in this case, just like with the quality of ammo, cost shouldn't play a factor when taking a crap shoot with your life. In the neighborhood I grew up in, and the ones that are scarey now, no one will just run up and attack you randomly if they are in a sane mind save maybe a gang iniation. That would make up 1% of the issues. The rest of attacks are due to drugs or money. Usualy for money to buy drugs. In a situation where someone wan't my wallet, it's theirs, vs. me wyatt f'ing-erping them and fillin' 'em full of lead. If they violently aproach me or a loved one, then that's a different story. The attitude you have is that someone will have the clarity of mind while protecting their fiance or someone they care about. I challenge you to have a calm cool collected ability to recognise a human target adjust aim for the knee/head after watching 2 rounds pass through that target, your wife screaming, now instead of 10 feet he's 5 feet away, and then remembering to squeeze not pull.

I think in a real life non combatant situation the 9mm round isn't optimal for 95% of the situations. If you need less recoil you can also find a gun that will have less. Maybe a revolver instead of a semi auto. More metal makes it much easier to control most of the time. Or maybe use a really tight suspension system on your auto.

I think you are much more knowledgable than me about wepons no doubt, but I don't think in this situation, that having a .45 means compensation, I think it relates directly to more stopping and much less pass through likelyhood.

[dem beats 1,223]

Have you tried anything yet Jon?