How does a sub play 10 hz when..

[mrray13 30]

IB = Infinite baffle, gosh everyone knows that....you so funny!

yes, we know that. BUT you stated, and i quote,

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported

our question is how in the hell did you run those subs BOTH IB and ported? i don't believe anyone here, or anywhere for that matter, has heard of a ported IB setup. could you please educate us?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I think he was referring to the fact that he used those 10s in both an IB setup AND a ported setup. not necessarily at the same time. =D

i thought about that after i posted my last reply...

however...

You guys sure make a mountain out of a mole hill. Just where did I say "both"? If you read my post I tell you IB and later ported

where? why here, yet again...

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported

which, when taken in with the whole paragraph, looks as though you are clearly stating that you ran a ported IB setup. here...

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported, and they worked great for $15 each. Still considering trying the 15s. Some cheap subs work great until they wear out or blow, then you need a better sub for your use.

I agree recommendations are often marketing (I hate marketing and purposely don't buy products with bs marketing) but I was just playing around trying to make a small box work; giving them the benefit of the doubt. Since tons of subs supposedly work in small boxes I had to hit on one right...no. I don't like small sealed so have not used one in my car for a long time, and looks like nothing has changed. Still must need a special driver to get lows in a smaller sealed, guess I did not realize they were all making the same old stuff with larger surrounds and bigger plastic motor covers....thought maybe some new tech had trickled down from the best drivers and I was wrong. I ran them in winISD, they need more cf to be a sub. In my case the infinity seem to work well in 3+cf each

mind pointing out in that statment where you state you changed cars and ran different setups? i've read and reread, still it looks as though you ran an IB setup, ported @ 30hz. "i used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported" 30 hz IB and ported, sure sounds as though you meant both to me.

and maybe you didn't, but your post clearly shows that you were indeed inferring you did. bad sentence structure? maybe. incomplete thought? very likely. in any case, with the way you ramble, it was very confusing to say the least and the reason you were called on it.

hope that helps....

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[JimJ 11]

4x70 sounds pretty weak for SQ anyway right?

Wrong.

[sqguy 0]

Right here, IB and then ported in two different cars.

Pyramid made paper 10s in the late 80s to whenever. I ran two and then 4 IB and they worked great. They were very close in output to the pyledriver 10s, if someone remembers those they were killer. The pyle magnets hardly fit in the cutout. Then I got a hatchback and could not run IB, so I made a 4cf box that filled the whole hatch with four of the 10s, it sucked. Then I took a pair out and it was better, put a big port in the top and it was better yet and close to the four IB in other cars. They could play 30hz, not sure if they could get far under that but they would play 30hz music with some authority.

Don't know what that box was tuned at, I set it to 30 or so but then changed it a bunch of times by ear. The book I had then was for home speakers so it was not exact for subs in a car, and pyramid had no published specs.

I'm really busy or I would have pulled the amp. If I turn the subs up enough to feel it then the highs turn to static, and that is with too much bass. It is far from mind bending loud, it needs to go almost that loud just to be heard well with the windows down. It only needs to keep up with good bass, I'm not after loud. I've setup my cars that way for a long time so I could feel some deep bass and the music sounds good, no louder than that. Only thing left is the alpine xover I should put my old one in and try it or bypass it, but doubt that is the issue. Well, I have an 880prs to run in there now anyway.

[dave_Edwards 1]

just.....stop....talking.....making my eyes bleed from reading your posts...and my brain hurt trying to see your point....

[mrray13 30]

Right here, IB and then ported in two different cars.

but not in the post i quoted. yeah, you added that later, after you was called out.

it's all good though. like dave, i really can't make head nor tails of what you are even trying to say. lol

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sqguy 0]

You came up with the IB and ported together thing, somehow assuming I don't know what IB or ported is? Look at M5's last post he quoted it with the same line as you. You guys are just on the attack for the fun of it. I've run IB every time I had a vehicle that could, boxes are a waste of space/time/effort for my use.

[mrray13 30]

not assuming anything, going by what you posted, period. and even after your later post, somewhat clarifying, it still wasn't/isn't clear what the hell you are saying. that's why that one line was quoted, read it yourself. read your whole post, does it say anything about seperate installs? no. it isn't till after we ask (and quote)what the hell you're talking about do you make any kind of effort to state it was seperate installs.

i'm not attacking anything. you clarified your statement. but it still doesn't fix your rambling posts. your last one, above this one, is teh most coherant post to date.

and as i said in my last post, it's all good man. i'm not attacking or anything. you made a very vague, and at the time, incomplete statement. we quoted you and called you out on it. that is done, you cleared it up. so let's move on, eh?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sqguy 0]

Yes, lets move on.

[helotaxi 46]

Yes, lets move on to grammar and writing lessons.

I fixed your post.

[mrray13 30]

Yes, lets move on to grammar and writing lessons.

I fixed your post.

and for the record, i'm no grammer ninja, lol. but i try not to ramble and i do try to form, and type, complete thoughts.

makes it a bit easier to get my point across.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[dave_Edwards 1]

you know....some subwoofers do not like IB.....yes, they may work but they would work better in an alignment they were designed for.

[sqguy 0]

I was too lazy to quote everything when I got bombed with 20 things, that may have helped clarify.

My infinity subs actually say in the manual they can run IB at half power. I think more can but will not admit it, ones with the right Vas/Fs/Q. Marketing people that lie about box size certainly are not going to want you to use the driver where it could be blown easier by a clueless user.

[MikeS 0]

Yes, lets move on to grammar and writing lessons.

I fixed your post.

and for the record, i'm no grammer ninja, lol. but i try not to ramble and i do try to form, and type, complete thoughts.

makes it a bit easier to get my point across.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

That's good, because you don't use capitals in any of your postings.

[mrray13 30]

Yes, lets move on to grammar and writing lessons.

I fixed your post.

and for the record, i'm no grammer ninja, lol. but i try not to ramble and i do try to form, and type, complete thoughts.

makes it a bit easier to get my point across.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

That's good, because you don't use capitals in any of your postings.

hehe, you noticed?? i'm a bit lazy to stick my pinkies out and tap the shift key.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sqguy 0]

Better than: "wt sub u use mine z gr8!...."

I don't bother with proper grammar for posting; takes too much time. I'm doing good not to have mistyped words all over.

[audio-neon 34]

Better than: "wt sub u use mine z gr8!...."

I don't bother with proper grammar for posting; takes too much time. I'm doing good not to have mistyped words all over.

I blame posts like this on aim. For some of us, we have always had to type proper grammar for school and work. Hell at work I have to abbreviate everything but I still manage to type in proper grammar and use solid sentence structure. It doesn't take me any longer to type like this either.

[helotaxi 46]

Which takes less time: typing out your thoughts in complete and coherent sentences or having to spend you next 8 posts explaining what you so poorly worded the first time?

[sqguy 0]

Which takes less time: typing out your thoughts in complete and coherent sentences or having to spend you next 8 posts explaining what you so poorly worded the first time?

Most of the stuff was from people not reading my posts and replying. I don't recall the last time I got hunted down like that. To assume someone does not know what running ported or IB subs is? And then quote the post and cut out the part that explains the use? To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated? To say people who run HU power all get high efficiency speakers to make it work? I don't really care, it just reflects the nature of users on this site to everyone that reads it. People can make up their own mind. Most people come on here for help not ridicule, but the place is what you make it.

My posts are worth just what you paid for them, if they don't make sense then ask.

Anyway, check this out where Pioneer actually shows you how you will be -5dB at 30Hz with their max size box for sealed or ported with a 12".

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/i...8TSW3001D24.pdf

[mrray13 30]

Which takes less time: typing out your thoughts in complete and coherent sentences or having to spend you next 8 posts explaining what you so poorly worded the first time?

Most of the stuff was from people not reading my posts and replying. I don't recall the last time I got hunted down like that. To assume someone does not know what running ported or IB subs is? And then quote the post and cut out the part that explains the use?

again, and for the last time, the post that was quoted DID NOT explain two different setups. it wasn't until a LATER post did you somewhat clarify that it was different setups, and even then, it wasn't until we directly called you out that you specificly stated it was two different setups. and for the record, i even requoted your post in it's entirety from the point in question, and NOWHERE in that post was it stated two different setups. is your typing, thought process, so bad you can't even understand what you are saying?

your posts are indeed what we pay for them, nothing.

don't turn this around when it can all be brought right back up showing just how wrong you are. let it lie, or get made a fool. your choice.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[audio-neon 34]

Which takes less time: typing out your thoughts in complete and coherent sentences or having to spend you next 8 posts explaining what you so poorly worded the first time?

Most of the stuff was from people not reading my posts and replying. I don't recall the last time I got hunted down like that. To assume someone does not know what running ported or IB subs is? And then quote the post and cut out the part that explains the use? To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated? To say people who run HU power all get high efficiency speakers to make it work? I don't really care, it just reflects the nature of users on this site to everyone that reads it. People can make up their own mind. Most people come on here for help not ridicule, but the place is what you make it.

My posts are worth just what you paid for them, if they don't make sense then ask.

Anyway, check this out where Pioneer actually shows you how you will be -5dB at 30Hz with their max size box for sealed or ported with a 12".

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/i...8TSW3001D24.pdf

You can't even quote yourself right when comparing the two amps you listed.

To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated

AND WHAT YOU ACTUALLY POSTED

IB = Infinite baffle, gosh everyone knows that....you so funny!

Pyramid made paper 10s in the late 80s to whenever. I ran two and then 4 IB and they worked great. They were very close in output to the pyledriver 10s, if someone remembers those they were killer. The pyle magnets hardly fit in the cutout. Then I got a hatchback and could not run IB, so I made a 4cf box that filled the whole hatch with four of the 10s, it sucked. Then I took a pair out and it was better, put a big port in the top and it was better yet and close to the four IB in other cars. They could play 30hz, not sure if they could get far under that but they would play 30hz music with some authority. I should dig out some 90s music and see how low it goes. Oh yeah, back then you had to read a book to port a sub, there was no software easily available and most subs had no T&S. So you did it my ear.

I don't know where you guys have been, but kids run the highs off HUs all the time and think that is normal. How much midbass can a HU make at 17wrms? About nobody runs under 100w in the 8" midbass thread here. I could not run a high side to my liking on anything less than a 75rms/ch@4ohm@12v amp. This 70rms/ch kicker does not get it, at 14+V I am sure. Kids all got spl boxes that can't get low and weak highs. Here I thought all these new common subs could get low in a little box and I tried, its all bs. I don't know how you guys can argue, you still need that same big box unless you get an expensive sub and usually run big power to force it to put out. If you don't have DSP or a parametric that huge roll off kills your tuning. I have always had larger issues with tuning in midbass and bass in doing this since the late 80s, I'm not sure where some of you guys have been. I can get a good pair of coax to play the highs reasonable, but if the sub does not blend you hear it right away....you change music and the bass gets loud/quiet, very common situation. I guess if you listen to one type of music and it works for that, then hey who cares but I listen to various things.

[dave_Edwards 1]

you give SQ guys a bad name.....

[sqguy 0]

Mrray13,

The first post you keep quoting bold part:

My whole point was that people have high tuned boxes and consider 30hz low, not that subs would not do it. I said in the recommended box they would not do it. If people want them like that, use the instructions, buy a little manufactured box, or have no midbass and use the sub to cover...still 30 is low to them.

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported, and they worked great for $15 each. Still considering trying the 15s. Some cheap subs work great until they wear out or blow, then you need a better sub for your use.

I said this and I don't know how you get IB and ported at the same time from the bold part, that is just retarded if this is an "enthusiast site." So a sealed sub is "sealed AND box?" Ported is "Ported AND box?" I never said "IB ported" or "at the same time." If I saw 'at same time' I would ask how that was done and how it worked. I would imagine not much would come out of the port, but in fact people have run IB and ported the whole trunk into the car and I have no idea how well it works as I never have. Because few people actually vent the subs to the outside for true IB due to obvious reasons. You are just looking to attack something out of context. Context of the post is subs can play low, even $15 dollar ones in more than one configuration, but many people don't run them that way. I'm sorry if that was not obvious, it sure looks plain as day to me. With the huge goofy posts you guys made over the weekend I just figured you had a few beers or something.

My next post, note the bold parts: (#44)

IB = Infinite baffle, gosh everyone knows that....you so funny!

Pyramid made paper 10s in the late 80s to whenever. I ran two and then 4 IB and they worked great. They were very close in output to the pyledriver 10s, if someone remembers those they were killer. The pyle magnets hardly fit in the cutout. Then I got a hatchback and could not run IB, so I made a 4cf box that filled the whole hatch with four of the 10s, it sucked. Then I took a pair out and it was better, put a big port in the top and it was better yet and close to the four IB in other cars. They could play 30hz, not sure if they could get far under that but they would play 30hz music with some authority. .....

Your post right after: (#45)

IB = Infinite baffle, gosh everyone knows that....you so funny!

yes, we know that. BUT you stated, and i quote,

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported

our question is how in the hell did you run those subs BOTH IB and ported? i don't believe anyone here, or anywhere for that matter, has heard of a ported IB setup. could you please educate us?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

And so what did I post after the "you so funny" and again you ask the same question about IB and porting. You did not read my post.

[audio-neon 34]

Mrray13,

The first post you keep quoting bold part:

My whole point was that people have high tuned boxes and consider 30hz low, not that subs would not do it. I said in the recommended box they would not do it. If people want them like that, use the instructions, buy a little manufactured box, or have no midbass and use the sub to cover...still 30 is low to them.

I used to run pyramid 10s at 30hz IB and ported, and they worked great for $15 each. Still considering trying the 15s. Some cheap subs work great until they wear out or blow, then you need a better sub for your use.

I said this and I don't know how you get IB and ported at the same time from the bold part, that is just retarded if this is an "enthusiast site." So a sealed sub is "sealed AND box?" Ported is "Ported AND box?" I never said "IB ported" or "at the same time." If I saw 'at same time' I would ask how that was done and how it worked. I would imagine not much would come out of the port, but in fact people have run IB and ported the whole trunk into the car and I have no idea how well it works as I never have. Because few people actually vent the subs to the outside for true IB due to obvious reasons. You are just looking to attack something out of context. Context of the post is subs can play low, even $15 dollar ones in more than one configuration, but many people don't run them that way. I'm sorry if that was not obvious, it sure looks plain as day to me. With the huge goofy posts you guys made over the weekend I just figured you had a few beers or something.

In the English language the word AND means: Together with or along with; in addition to; as well as. Used to connect words, phrases, or clauses that have the same grammatical function in a construction. Your phrase that he quoted was I used to run pyramid 10's at 30hz IB and ported.

I don't know about you. But when running an IB set-up. When have you ever seen anyone say I run a 30hz IB set up? That 30hz was most likely related to the word ported. Therefore because of the conjunction, you made the mistake of poor grammar. Therefore Mrray and ///M5 etc. Were completely right in assuming that you were saying IB and ported together.

[sqguy 0]

Which takes less time: typing out your thoughts in complete and coherent sentences or having to spend you next 8 posts explaining what you so poorly worded the first time?

Most of the stuff was from people not reading my posts and replying. I don't recall the last time I got hunted down like that. To assume someone does not know what running ported or IB subs is? And then quote the post and cut out the part that explains the use? To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated? To say people who run HU power all get high efficiency speakers to make it work? I don't really care, it just reflects the nature of users on this site to everyone that reads it. People can make up their own mind. Most people come on here for help not ridicule, but the place is what you make it.

My posts are worth just what you paid for them, if they don't make sense then ask.

Anyway, check this out where Pioneer actually shows you how you will be -5dB at 30Hz with their max size box for sealed or ported with a 12".

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/i...8TSW3001D24.pdf

You can't even quote yourself right when comparing the two amps you listed.

To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated

AND WHAT YOU ACTUALLY POSTED

IB = Infinite baffle, gosh everyone knows that....you so funny!

Pyramid made paper 10s in the late 80s to whenever. I ran two and then 4 IB and they worked great. They were very close in output to the pyledriver 10s, if someone remembers those they were killer. The pyle magnets hardly fit in the cutout. Then I got a hatchback and could not run IB, so I made a 4cf box that filled the whole hatch with four of the 10s, it sucked. Then I took a pair out and it was better, put a big port in the top and it was better yet and close to the four IB in other cars. They could play 30hz, not sure if they could get far under that but they would play 30hz music with some authority. I should dig out some 90s music and see how low it goes. Oh yeah, back then you had to read a book to port a sub, there was no software easily available and most subs had no T&S. So you did it my ear.

I don't know where you guys have been, but kids run the highs off HUs all the time and think that is normal. How much midbass can a HU make at 17wrms? About nobody runs under 100w in the 8" midbass thread here. I could not run a high side to my liking on anything less than a 75rms/ch@4ohm@12v amp. This 70rms/ch kicker does not get it, at 14+V I am sure. Kids all got spl boxes that can't get low and weak highs. Here I thought all these new common subs could get low in a little box and I tried, its all bs. I don't know how you guys can argue, you still need that same big box unless you get an expensive sub and usually run big power to force it to put out. If you don't have DSP or a parametric that huge roll off kills your tuning. I have always had larger issues with tuning in midbass and bass in doing this since the late 80s, I'm not sure where some of you guys have been. I can get a good pair of coax to play the highs reasonable, but if the sub does not blend you hear it right away....you change music and the bass gets loud/quiet, very common situation. I guess if you listen to one type of music and it works for that, then hey who cares but I listen to various things.

So what is your point? Are you saying CEA does not rate at 14.4V?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-m32Z01XeE2w/popups/cacomp.html

My kicker is 70x4 at 4 ohms CEA. Is that the same power as two of these: http://www.linearpower.com/detail/1501.html

If you think so, you have never used a good old amp and should try it. There is a significant difference between 12.5 and 14.4 volt ratings or nobody would put a larger alternator in their car for a big amp. (not counting any under-ratings many old amps had)

Edited June 14, 2008 by sqguyib

[audio-neon 34]

Which takes less time: typing out your thoughts in complete and coherent sentences or having to spend you next 8 posts explaining what you so poorly worded the first time?

Most of the stuff was from people not reading my posts and replying. I don't recall the last time I got hunted down like that. To assume someone does not know what running ported or IB subs is? And then quote the post and cut out the part that explains the use? To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated? To say people who run HU power all get high efficiency speakers to make it work? I don't really care, it just reflects the nature of users on this site to everyone that reads it. People can make up their own mind. Most people come on here for help not ridicule, but the place is what you make it.

My posts are worth just what you paid for them, if they don't make sense then ask.

Anyway, check this out where Pioneer actually shows you how you will be -5dB at 30Hz with their max size box for sealed or ported with a 12".

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/i...8TSW3001D24.pdf

You can't even quote yourself right when comparing the two amps you listed.

To say there is no audible difference between an old school amp at 75wrms@12v rated and another new amp at 70wrms CEA rated

AND WHAT YOU ACTUALLY POSTED

IB = Infinite baffle, gosh everyone knows that....you so funny!

Pyramid made paper 10s in the late 80s to whenever. I ran two and then 4 IB and they worked great. They were very close in output to the pyledriver 10s, if someone remembers those they were killer. The pyle magnets hardly fit in the cutout. Then I got a hatchback and could not run IB, so I made a 4cf box that filled the whole hatch with four of the 10s, it sucked. Then I took a pair out and it was better, put a big port in the top and it was better yet and close to the four IB in other cars. They could play 30hz, not sure if they could get far under that but they would play 30hz music with some authority. I should dig out some 90s music and see how low it goes. Oh yeah, back then you had to read a book to port a sub, there was no software easily available and most subs had no T&S. So you did it my ear.

I don't know where you guys have been, but kids run the highs off HUs all the time and think that is normal. How much midbass can a HU make at 17wrms? About nobody runs under 100w in the 8" midbass thread here. I could not run a high side to my liking on anything less than a 75rms/ch@4ohm@12v amp. This 70rms/ch kicker does not get it, at 14+V I am sure. Kids all got spl boxes that can't get low and weak highs. Here I thought all these new common subs could get low in a little box and I tried, its all bs. I don't know how you guys can argue, you still need that same big box unless you get an expensive sub and usually run big power to force it to put out. If you don't have DSP or a parametric that huge roll off kills your tuning. I have always had larger issues with tuning in midbass and bass in doing this since the late 80s, I'm not sure where some of you guys have been. I can get a good pair of coax to play the highs reasonable, but if the sub does not blend you hear it right away....you change music and the bass gets loud/quiet, very common situation. I guess if you listen to one type of music and it works for that, then hey who cares but I listen to various things.

So what is your point? Are you saying CEA does not rate at 14.4V?

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-m32Z01XeE2w/popups/cacomp.html

My kicker is 70x4 at 4 ohms CEA. Is that the same power as two of these: http://www.linearpower.com/detail/1501.html

If you think so, you have never used a good old amp and should try it. There is a significant difference between 12.5 and 14.4 volt ratings or nobody would put a larger alternator in their car for a big amp. (not counting any under-ratings many old amps had)

If you had any idea what kind of ratings Sundown Audio's SAZ and SAX series are rated at, you wouldn't ask me a stupid question like that. I had a problem with you all of a sudden tossing the words "old school" into a more recent post. We as enthusiasts all know that the way amps are rated now isn't the best way. We do however agree that CEA rating was a good step at making companies like sony, audiobahn etc... at least attempt to rate their amps to a standard.

But since we are going to ask the young kid if I ever used what you would consider "old school amps" in one of my installs, no. I would have to rebuttal by asking the old man if you have ever used tube amps in a car? Because I have. And I have used amps that are rated at 12v as well. I have an old school earthquake 2ch amp sitting in my room that is rated at 12v, but I have never used it in a car.