POLY and Carbon Speakers

[JazzScreamer 1]

I tried to get some answers out of AA about the difference between the two materials and never received a response. What I know so far is that AA will offer mids in a carbon cone as opposed to the original Poly cones. Can someone give me a better feel as to how these speakers will sound compared to the two different materials. As far as I know, the two are built the same but the material for the cone are different.

I'm really on my last string with AA. Don't get me wrong, I love what they have done in the past. AA has been more than kind to me. Chad has done some wonderful things for me in the past. Updates and news about new and improved products have been terrible. I'm sorry, but this seems to be bad business. Can we get a concrete answer about what is going on? I feel the wait is going to hinder the final result. The future of AA has gone down the drain in my opinion. As we all kinda know now, Fi will take over is some fashion or another. I just feel really cheated at the honesty of the future of this company and ALL the post that promise updated in "two weeks." is just a lie. Well...... it's been months for most of these updates (look at the AA threads about updates) Can we get an answer?

[///M5 2,833]

Personally I sort of agree with not disclosing any info until a product is 100% available.

[JazzScreamer 1]

Thanks for the reply.

[DevilDriver 28]

The future of AA is the exact opposite of down the drain...it's just that they're not what you, specifically, are looking for. Scott and Nick have been steadily building a reliable dealer network and strong products. Their online presence will be diminished going forward and that's a reality you'll have to live with.

In terms of the properties of each material, carbon is a stiffer, lighter material. This offers increased efficiency, a more rigid piston (typically better detail), and less internal damping (typically a more pronounced peak up top). Each has their own advantages and disadvantages, although polypropylene is usually considered a pretty good "middle ground" cone material, with no huge benefits but no large detriments either. Carbon fiber cones, on the other hand, can offer some marked improvements (particularly at low frequencies where the cone is likely to flex); of course, it requires close attention to cone and surround geometry (and crossover design) to integrate it properly.

This is not to say that either version of the 6.5" mid will exhibit any of these characteristics (a "sum of the parts" kinda thing).

[///M5 2,833]

They have taken that philosophy with the BTL as well and yes it pissed off a lot of people, but they then don't have any misunderstandings when something actually does come out. Who knows how many more revisions are going to be made, hypostulating on the final product now can only do more harm than good. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I truly believe it is best that way. Think of how you would feel if you got it "all figured out" and then they went through another design change.

[NDMstang65 403]

We're not 100% ready to release all of the info on the stuff at this time. The old days of putting dates and stuff on product debuts are over. Things will just show up as they need to be when they need to be. We are no longer looking at a direct market with the AA line. We are focusing 100% on a brick and mortar dealers and what works best for them. The DIY section of AA is more less gone now. We're slowly working on things and getting everything hammered out right the first time, instead of hastily jumping into things and just slinging drivers out there that really are not up to par with our standards..

As far as the frequency response between the two are fairly similar, there is a flat shelf response from 1800Hz and up on the driver, but it has a fairly mild break up mode on the top end compared to most carbon or composite drivers...that's about all i can really tell you as far as sound difference between the poly and carbon, other then that they are essentially the same.

For what it's worth, the ones I have in the truck I really like...

Thanks!

-Nick

[///M5 2,833]

Good to hear you have tamed some of the upper breakup

[Fi Car Audio 64]

Jazzscreamer... Ill preface this post by saying if you arent interested in my views on AA ignore everything down to the asterisks

For the record, Fi has nothing to do with AA. There wasnt a take over or merger. Fi is a separate corporation and is not mucking up the original AA program. That is all my personal doing

I definitely understand where you are coming from, and I know I have made several net/forum people mad with my choice to turn AA into a dealer/distributor company... and definitely from a few hate mails I compounded that one recently by pulling AA from all web sales (SSA). But the vision and direction we have for AA, is a good deal larger than what I know the net will support.

I feel fairly confident in saying this in having started a few companies and having done OEM for many more that were net based (as well as larger brand name dealer based companies). I know the numbers game and simply didnt want to be another boutique net brand. I have one of those, lol... and I truly know the limits/scope of the sales it can produce. AA is being pushed on a much larger scale and that is who we are focused on.

In being honest with some customers I have been told that I am all about the $$$ and that Im screwing the original customer base and forgetting about the forums and net sales... yes, maybe I am with Ascendant, but I really dont see the point of shackling another company like I have with Fi. I made a statement when I started Fi that it will be a direct only company in the US... and it is, and will stay that way. $$$ wise this is truly stupid as I turn down a dozen shops a week that want to carry the line. I turn some to AA that I feel will fit the program and others not. But I did make the statement and will stick to my word.

AA is now a dealer based company and is selling well. Dealers are very happy with the products and we are finding a solid niche in the market. We are seeing the trends in the market skew even further to the net, and are pushing even harder for AA to be a dealer protected line. The final straw came with the loss of a solid dealer due to net sales. That one dealer did quite a bit more monthly than the net sales did... so it simply makes sense to stop it. We are ever expanding our dealer network and will have a new site with a dealer locator and new products up soon, but the fact of the matter is that dealers dont care about our site, or the fact that we have 2 other sub lines available that arent up on it. They have their up to date dealer lit packs, pricing, products, and support that helps them push the product. The site for them is almost inconsequential. So we have somewhat focused on that side of things for the time being... simply getting dealers what they need to make the sales.

Chads original plan for AA was to cater to higher end home audio DIY applications. In designing the original drivers I had mentioned that I felt the car audio market would latch on to them in a big way and suggested some changes. Chad agreed and AA did 95% autosound... a far cry from the original game plan. Chad now owns Epik Subwoofers and is doing what he truly loves, making phenomenal high end home audio products. This just wasnt the fate for AA. Chad didnt choose it to be this way, but how can you choose what market is going to flock to your products? I do have a passion for home audio and know how great the polys are for that application (I much prefer to do home audio consulting and OEM vs autosound) The polys will make their way back to the market in their original form... just not from AA. AA has separated itself from all things home audio at this point.

I truly see the future of AA as a bright one and know that both the product and direction are the right thing for the company. I am sorry if it doesnt fit in with your past experiences, and do apologize, but it is for the greater good of the company at this point. We are currently reworking the site and will have a dealer locator as well as all 5 sub lines on the site (and maybe a glimpse of the 6th line).

I guess we will see how this plays out, but I am happy with things from this end.

************************************************************************************************

If you didnt read the above, the original polys will make their way back to the direct market. Details are still being sorted. I do have a major passion for home audio and feel that the original polys are phenomenal drivers and it kind of would be a shame to not have them around. (Im far from tooting my own horn for designing them, just that heck, I really like them and it seems most people do too). This decision is NOT based on profit... in fact they arent that profitable of a driver if you remember the original cost. I just think that they are great alternatives to the Scan Speaks, Seas, and other DIY drivers out there at a reasonable price point. And to drive the $$$ portion of this home, I wont be the one making the sales or profit from them.

The current carbons are the same as the original polys except for the cones and some other slight tweaks (done to try and mimic the poly response curve). While not spot on with the polys, they are still easy to work with. For a composite cone they have a relatively mild break up on the top end. The only hitch with these vs the polys is that there is a slight dip at about 1800Hz that shelves off and flattens out until break up. Still easy enough to work with and with the filters I have done, 2200 is a good choice with some of the low Fs tweeters and makes for a nice elliptical filtered roll off on the upper end.

As for obtaining these, I really dont know if youll be able to. I had originally offered them to a few dealers and they loved them. No grill, no crossover, just the carbons and a tweeter for an active set. Since then we have added them to the product line and most dealers stock them. We have gone through quite a few of them already and once they are gone, they wont be back in the same form (we are almost done with the basket for the true 6.5" car audio version... which is essentially the same thing just with a correct fitting autosound sized basket and optional grill). Since dealers like them so much, they fall into the same category as all other AA dealer protected products.

I will keep the AA forum somewhat up to date with the original drivers, unless the other party involved chooses to take care of all of those details as well.

Thanks,

Scott