Need Help On Getting The Right Mid And High Speakers

[pervitizm 0]

I just recently got a pair of DC Level 4 18's for my 2007 Suburban. Now I want to try and focus on my front stage. I'm not looking for competition SQ here, just something that will be on par with the 18's until I turn the bass knob up. I'm mostly listen to rap and R&B, but I've been known to listen to all types of music. It common for me to listen to Project Pat and then turn around a play some Hall and Oats, or Phil Collins. That's just how I roll. It also doesn't help working with a co-worker who doesn't listen to music pass 1990.

At first I was thinking about going with an active 3 way setup using some raw drivers from partsexpress.com. You know maybe a pair of Dayton 8 midbass drivers, Dayton 6.5 midranges and a pair of 1' dome tweeters. After thinking about it for some time now, I've decided that it would be too much work and time for me to do this while living in an apartment no less. So I've decided to scrape that ideal due to limited work area, time, budget, and equipment as the reason's why I don't want to go that route. So instead I'm thinking about doing something simple and not to over the top. I want to go with a nice 2 way for the front (6.5 for the doors and 1' tweeters for the A pillars), and a good pair of coaxials for the rear doors. I'm not gonna replace the pair of 4.5 in the rear pillars in the back of the truck (the bass from the subs will drown those out). Pretty much the speakers would be direct factory replacements. As of right now I have a budget of around $500 - $600 that I will have available for this part of my system. I've got a few ideals floating around that I wouldn't mind getting some feedback on.

Option 1: Passive 2 way up front with coaxials for the rear and a decent 4 channel amp to power all six speakers.

Option 2: Active 2 way up front that will be powered by the 4 channel amp and a pair of coaxials that will be powered by the factory amp

Option 3: Coaxials for the front doors/coaxials for the rear doors all powered by the 4 channel amp. Leave the factory tweeters in place

What do you guys think?

As far as brands, I'm just as confussed. I've owned Kenwood, Polk, and Memphis before. I wouldn't mind going back with Memphis but the dealer who I use to get my Memphis gear from has gone out of business. I was thinking about trying something new like Diamond Audio, or even eD just to be different, but I want to make sure that whatever I pick it will be able to keep in line with the 18's. Sorry for the long post but I wouldn't post if I didn't need the help.

If I were to go with option 2, I was thinking of something like this:

midbass/midrange : Dayton Rs180-4

Tweeters: Tang Band 25-1166SJ 1" Neodymium Tweeter

Now I would run these off a 4 channel amp, something like a Kicker ZX350.4. That would allow for around 30 - 60rms for each driver. What I'm not sure on is how I would setup the freq cutoffs just using the amp alone. From the reviews I've read the tang band would need to cut off at around 2.5khz, while the Dayton would be setup from 300Hz to 3khz. Does that sound right? Would it be good to go with bassblockers for both the tweeters and the woofer?

[///M5 2,833]

Those Daytons CANNOT play up to 3kHz, not even clossssse (pun intended).

I say scrap the rears and do the 3 way, it is your only hope to even come close to "keeping" up with your subs. Either that or run horns, but then you are going to need even more processing.

Also curious as to why you selected that Tangband, not that it is bad err or at least I don't know about it as I haven't heard it, but I wouldn't say that at its price point there is much of a following for it.

The coaxes will give you no extra output and in fact might even take away, in particular when you realize that they are eating a portion of your budget they will definitely take away.

[pervitizm 0]

Those Daytons CANNOT play up to 3kHz, not even clossssse (pun intended).

I say scrap the rears and do the 3 way, it is your only hope to even come close to "keeping" up with your subs. Either that or run horns, but then you are going to need even more processing.

Also curious as to why you selected that Tangband, not that it is bad err or at least I don't know about it as I haven't heard it, but I wouldn't say that at its price point there is much of a following for it.

The coaxes will give you no extra output and in fact might even take away, in particular when you realize that they are eating a portion of your budget they will definitely take away.

As I had stated in my post I wanted to do a 3 way however I don't have the time or resources to do it the way I want to. So I'm looking for drivers that I can drop in the factory locations without much modifcation. I'm not looking for competition SQ I just want it good enough so that it won't be outdone by the 18's at moderate to low levels. Now when I turn the bass knob up on the subs I know that the subs will overbare on the highs. I had chosen the Tangband because of their power handling and the ohm load, which was 4ohm. If this becomes to much of an issue I'll just go with some known componets then. Maybe some Memphis M class or Polk Momo.

[///M5 2,833]

What are you using for a crossover?

Note, never pick speakers based on their impedance (subs aside) and power handling on a tweeter isn't a concern as you will never give them more than 15w anyways.

[pervitizm 0]

What are you using for a crossover?

Note, never pick speakers based on their impedance (subs aside) and power handling on a tweeter isn't a concern as you will never give them more than 15w anyways.

I am a virgin when it comes to doing a fontstage so I guess that whole impedance and power handling gave it away

Anyway, I was thinking of going with a RF 360.1 processor to handle all of my eqing/crossover along with the crossover of the 4 channel amp. Do I need to get an exteranl crossover along with the 360.1 as well?

[pervitizm 0]

What are you using for a crossover?

Note, never pick speakers based on their impedance (subs aside) and power handling on a tweeter isn't a concern as you will never give them more than 15w anyways.

If this was your issue what would you do?

[///M5 2,833]

What are you using for a crossover?

Note, never pick speakers based on their impedance (subs aside) and power handling on a tweeter isn't a concern as you will never give them more than 15w anyways.

If this was your issue what would you do?

I'd have less subs, but if I had to be in your shoes I'd definitely go the 3 way route...not that I am you though.

The 360 won't really do a 3 way but it will do a 2. The next question is really what do you define your needs are quality wise. That is a hell of a lot of boom to keep up with and you are going to need some uber efficient drivers.

[pervitizm 0]

I'd have less subs, but if I had to be in your shoes I'd definitely go the 3 way route...not that I am you though.

The 360 won't really do a 3 way but it will do a 2. The next question is really what do you define your needs are quality wise. That is a hell of a lot of boom to keep up with and you are going to need some uber efficient drivers.

Well the less subs is out of the question How efficient of a driver do I need in order to keep up with rap 85% of the time and every other type of music the other 15%? This whole font-stage is harder than I thought. So now that you know that I want to go with a 2 way system running off a 4 channel amp at lets say a 60 to 90 rms per channel. Singls will come from my Pioneer AVH5700 HU to a 360.1 out to the 4 channel, what efficient drivers would you go with?

[///M5 2,833]

Put it this way, realistically you should spend 2-3x on your front stage what you did on your subs if you want it to "keep up". Subs only play 2% of the sonic spectra and all that dough in them and no love for the fronts doesn't really make sense.

ie with your current constraints you will not even come close to keeping up.

[pervitizm 0]

Put it this way, realistically you should spend 2-3x on your front stage what you did on your subs if you want it to "keep up". Subs only play 2% of the sonic spectra and all that dough in them and no love for the fronts doesn't really make sense.

ie with your current constraints you will not even come close to keeping up.

Thanks for your help. What I need to know is what can I do to make it better. Do I go up to a more powerful amp for the front end? I just can't belive that I can't get a decent sounding front stage using a 2 way system, while having a pair of 18's. Again I'm not looking for a $2k front stage.

Edited May 7, 2008 by pervitizm

[///M5 2,833]

I never said you couldn't do decent, just don't dream of keeping up.

Are you definitely getting the 360.2? Where are your mounting locations, what size restrictions, where are they aiming, a budget would help as would a larger amp.

[pervitizm 0]

I never said you couldn't do decent, just don't dream of keeping up.

Are you definitely getting the 360.2? Where are your mounting locations, what size restrictions, where are they aiming, a budget would help as would a larger amp.

I'm getting the 360.1 not the 2. My mounting locations are as follows. Front doors will hold the woofers, A pillars will hold the tweeters, and the rear doors will hold additional woofers. My budget, including the 4 channel amp is around $500 to $600.

[///M5 2,833]

IIRC, you can't do active with the .1 so you will just need to shop for components. The 360.2 will allow you though.

In your budget you'd be crazy to put anything in the rear, you need to spend it all up front.