cold air intake, tornado fuel saver, k&n air filter

[jonbearsmt 919]

i talk to a guy that has a lincoln towncar, a 95 i think.. any how hes a impulse buyer.... he states that

the tornado works, add 4 miles to the gal

the cold air intake while gives more power makes the fuel milage very bad

and i want to know what K&N filter stands in all this

[chrismcdonald12 0]

Cold airs and K&N's increase fuel mileage provided that driving habits haven't changed and installed with all factory sensors. Just like lower octane fuel increases fuel economy and horsepower provided their isnt a computer compensating for detonation.

[slim2fattycake 85]

i say the cold air and K&N increases fuel mileage, and the tornado thing is just a scam. i think it actually reduces air.

[Guest zedman]

i say the cold air and K&N increases fuel mileage, and the tornado thing is just a scam. i think it actually reduces air.

How would it reduce the air?

[audio-neon 34]

Cold airs and K&N's increase fuel mileage provided that driving habits haven't changed and installed with all factory sensors. Just like lower octane fuel increases fuel economy and horsepower provided their isnt a computer compensating for detonation.

Exactly, almost. Lower octane fuel burns easier. Ironically enough we all think that 93 octane is more potent, it's less potent. Just like poorly designed cold air intakes, or just using a k&n intake can also lower your fuel economy if the air passing the maf is warmer. More air= more fuel injected.

On anoter separate note, cold air intakes, don't mean your engine is actually pumping more air, as when the cylinder is moving downwards and the intake valve is open, the engine is only taking in as much air as cylinder displaces (plus a little more from atmospheric pressure.) *Not including forced induction engines*

[sick6ness 1]

The octane you use depends on the manufacturers recommendation, if the car states use 93, 93 will give you optimal results in horsepower and gas mileage. Using lower octane in a car which doesn't call for it would actually decrease the mpg based on the law of diminishing returns.

As for the cold air intakes, you car IS taking in more air than the factory intake allowed it too. Which increases horsepower slightly, also increasing your mpg taking in to consideration that you drive normally (slow acceleration)

Edit: Bigjon the K&N air filter is just a better quality filter which goes on the end of the Cold air pipe. If you were to get a CAI I would say use a K&N filter for it.

Edited April 20, 2008 by sick6ness

[audio-neon 34]

The octane you use depends on the manufacturers recommendation, if the car states use 93, 93 will give you optimal results in horsepower and gas mileage. Using lower octane in a car which doesn't call for it would actually decrease the mpg based on the law of diminishing returns.

As for the cold air intakes, you car IS taking in more air than the factory intake allowed it too. Which increases horsepower slightly, also increasing your mpg taking in to consideration that you drive normally (slow acceleration)

Edit: Bigjon the K&N air filter is just a better quality filter which goes on the end of the Cold air pipe. If you were to get a CAI I would say use a K&N filter for it.

Just a little physics for you.

As a piston moves down in a cylinder it is creating a vacuum. The amount of volume the piston displaces on its down stroke determines how much air is drawn into the cylinder. Air density, which is derived from pressure/temperature, is what changes. What the factory intake is guilty of is not being designed for keeping the air as cool as possible, rather it's designed for acoustic properties, ease of tube routing etc. The air filter when replaced with a K&N drop in will almost completely make up the difference from the paper filter, which restricts airflow, lowering the intakes ability to flow air. Air turbulence is also a common flaw in factory intake systems.

Cars are a dynamic equilibrium, add more air until the computer senses knock from a lean ratio, than said car ups fuel consumption. A rich car will produce less power than a properly tuned and/or lean car. A lean car is just at risk of detonation. It's just like saying that free'er flowing exhaust will increase gas mileage. Which is also not true once you get to a certain level of flow. A car with just an exhaust manifold will preform worse because of the lack of back pressure, which is bad for the valvetrain.

On another note, if your car is tuned conservitavely for 93 octane and you were to use 89 octane, you won't get worse gas mileage until the computer pulls timing from knocking (which you could realistically never hit that point. In theory if your car is factory tuned (ie, tuned rich) adding a cold air intake and increasing the air density will increase gas mileage. If it adds enough density for the knock sensor/computer to cause a timing retard you will not see gas mileage increases, and could see a decrease in fuel efficiency.

For example, a buddy of mines 2005 Ford Mustang roush stage 1 got worse fuel economy, knock, rough idle etc... from a steeda cold air intake until he had the computer tuned.

[jonbearsmt 919]

neon..... your too much for me man lol i love it though.

how many of the people responded HAVE USED... OR ARE USING any of these items?

[audio-neon 34]

neon..... your too much for me man lol i love it though.

how many of the people responded HAVE USED... OR ARE USING any of these items?

Have used k&n drop in's in my neons forever, net ~7 whp. Downside is my throttle body needs to be cleaned every 20k miles now, or else the car gets finicky and likes to stall when coming to a stop.

*sorry, my step-dad (the one I live with, don't live with my father) teaches automotive and has beaten this into my head sooo many times, and while my terminology may not be perfect (sorry it's 3 am) I have had this beaten into my head. The tornado product did not show a gas mileage gain in my neon, and the cold air intake was causing detonation, but it wasn't a stock motor at that point and needed to be tuned to see a gain in horsepower, didn't really affect gas mileage iirc*

[chrismcdonald12 0]

Ive done everything from intake, to engine swaps, to supercharging the engines ive BUILT for my 5.0... Intakes provided their not some EBAY kit are a wonderful thing and can add an awesome note to your engine. You will love the sound of your lincoln with a nice cold air kit such as a typhoon. The K&N itself isn't bad but the whole design of a factory intake ESPECIALLY on a big ole grandpa beater like the Lincoln is to keep her quite not produce power but does try to keep the fuel mileage decent while doing it.

Heres the real kicker thats killing performance on those engines john, 4 catalytic converters and the non PI(performance improved) intake. Those engines benefit from a nice exhaust in a nice way. If your not so concerned about emissions standards i would say get a nice dual exhaust.

Here in Ontario me getting my red seal means 3 years of school, plus getting at least 70 percent on the final CfQ test.

[chrismcdonald12 0]

i say the cold air and K&N increases fuel mileage, and the tornado thing is just a scam. i think it actually reduces air.

How would it reduce the air?

Anything displacing volume in the intake tube technically can reduce flow. After all its an ill designed piece of sheet metal made to get your money.

[slim2fattycake 85]

the air flow has to flow around the fins inside the tornado intake, instead of a straight path of the factory intake or cold air intake.

i just thought that since cold air is taken in from having a cold air intake, that more air is flowing to the engine. this is because cold air is more dense than warm air. and i also heard that removing the battery connections for a time period resets the ecu and when its connected back on will learn air consumption from the new cold air intake.

[ANeonRider 3]

Colder air might be denser, but the cfm's of airflow are not any higher. The benefit of colder air is that the intake charge is cooler, allowing for a more complete fuel burn.

Tornado junk just adds detrimental turbulence to the incoming air. The only place you want any sort of turbulence is right at the injector to help atomize the fuel at low rpms.

K&N filters allow more air, but at the same time filter less. This means you'll need to change your oil more often, and check the intake system for buildup.

[MKader17 332]

neon..... your too much for me man lol i love it though.

how many of the people responded HAVE USED... OR ARE USING any of these items?

Never used the tornado but its pure junk, marketting gimmicks and lies

Have used CAI on other vehicles. makes turbo'd vehicles sound very nice and yields a small increase in HP/MPG (worth it enough IMO to get one though)

I have used K&N and still am in my older truck but I don't believe I will ever use one again. I think high flow dry filters are much better. The oil for the K&N gets into your throttle body and such, which is something I don't care for.

[sick6ness 1]

Right for the last two years I have been using a CAI on my 04' Civic. Yet to have any problems with it, after each winter season, simply take the filter off to clean it.

I don't think you'll have any problems as stated, such as getting the oil from the filter in your throttle body. But using a dry filter is fine as well, there are other good brands out there such as Injen and AEM. There is also a difference between a "Short-ram intake" and a "cold air intake". Sometimes people get them confused.

Edited April 20, 2008 by sick6ness

[///M5 2,833]

Both Neon's descriptions are pretty spot on but I'd like to add something. On some cars, for instance my M5 the K&N doesn't flow anymore than stock and only has the detrimental effect of leaching more particles through as well as bleeding some of the filter oil. Personally I am not a fan of changing any stock airbox to a K&N filter. The upside isn't worth the downside. Either go with a CAI and the filter or don't do it at all. Oh and bigjon, the guy you spoke to is mathematically challenged.

[ANeonRider 3]

I don't think you'll have any problems as stated, such as getting the oil from the filter in your throttle body. There is also a difference between a "Short-ram intake" and a "cold air intake". Sometimes people get them confused.

Ya... length. Intake tube length & diameter is the same as tuning a port for an enclosure. Tuning of the intake "pulses" is actually much more important than the temperature of the air being ingested. 9/10 the air over top of the pavement is just as hot as the air in the your engine bay anyways. What you really want is to have the intake pick up its air from a high pressure area within the chassis of the vehicle.

[sick6ness 1]

I did lots of research before getting my intake trying to decide between an SRI and CAI, my findings were that you get slightly more power with a CAI.

Why wouldn't the air be cooler when the intake is outside and away from the car...rather then being inside the engine bay taking in some of the heat the engine produces.

[ANeonRider 3]

Pavement... gets really hot under that sun & heats the air.

[sick6ness 1]

Pavement... gets really hot under that sun & heats the air.

Not always the case, what about when its not hot outside?

[jonbearsmt 919]

lol ok guys thanks a bunch...

the guy i talked to is a falking tard i knew that.. but he is the only man i knew that has tryed all that chit!... infact its that guy with the 4 15s in his trunk.. the one i turned down on doing the install...

it makes sence that design of the CAI would either make or break the fuel and power

i have to cats on my car... thay are newe... i replaced them as soon as i bought the car... i have duals with an H pipe... and i plan to get some flow masters pretty soon here... i dont need more HP or even better fuel miliage.. i just figured if i could add a after market peice and it would serve function that would be GREAT....

[ANeonRider 3]

Pavement... gets really hot under that sun & heats the air.

Not always the case, what about when its not hot outside?

Pavement still gets warm enough to warm the air above it without the sun shining. All I am saying is that lower isn't necessarily better (or cooler). No need to go lower than 12" from the pavement (saying this because I too often see these intakes that are much too close to the road surface). Really what you should be concerned with is your intake systems resonant frequency, both the intake manifold & intake tube.

[sick6ness 1]

Pavement... gets really hot under that sun & heats the air.

Not always the case, what about when its not hot outside?

Pavement still gets warm enough to warm the air above it without the sun shining. All I am saying is that lower isn't necessarily better (or cooler). No need to go lower than 12" from the pavement (saying this because I too often see these intakes that are much too close to the road surface). Really what you should be concerned with is your intake systems resonant frequency, both the intake manifold & intake tube.

I agree, I would buy an intake made to fit the specific vehicle I'm putting it on, too low poses problems for hydroplaning the engine if you have to go through a deep puddle of water.

But still, for me a CAI is getting cooler air then a SRI.

Edited April 20, 2008 by sick6ness

[jonbearsmt 919]

hydroplain your motor.... like as in the act of sliding on water

[sick6ness 1]

No but thats what I call it, if the intake if submerged into water, it will suck it up into the engine, and then you know what happens. You screwed.

The only negative I have experienced with this is when its pouring out being careful not to go through very deep puddles. But my car is pretty low compared to you car.