Screws vs. Brad Nails

[dem beats 1,223]

Big fan of biscuit joints myself, but that's mostly in birch ply.

I've snapped a handful of screws in the past though none of them were in end grain.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Depends on the enclosure really.....

If its larger, odd shaped, or built primarily for an SPL Application, or even if it is to house a "monster" sub, then I'd say wood screws all the way.

Smaller enclosures, you may be able to get away with brad nails and glue.

Yes, brad nailers are a lot faster. I use them to mock up all of the enclosures I build, even the ones that eventually get wood screws.

My own preference is to use wood screws on any enclosure. Simply from a strength point of veiw.

Give the brad nailer a try. They have plenty of other uses if the enclosure bit doesn't work out.

HOLY HELL IT'S ZANE Where you been hiding man ?

:eek5wavey: :eek5wavey: :eek5wavey:

[audio-neon 34]

I guess I should formally apologize to Zane, I did a little bit of construction and demo this week.

I made 6 boxes.

Brad nails with silicone.. Had sealing issues broke relatively easy with just my foot.

Just glue... Held up well, and did break at the joints with enough blunt force.

Just screws and silicone, had very minor sealing issues, and broke at the joints (around the mdf, the screws were intact)

Brad nails, wood glue and silicone, worked very well, but the nail heads pulled through in demolition, meaning that it was a nail failure.

Woodglue, screws and silicone was as expected the best of the builds.

My final box was the only non 10"x10"x10" box. It was a double baffled with 45* joints only using glue.. When destroyed it proved to be as hardy as the single baffled screw/glue box but unlike the screw/glue box the joints failed before the mdf started flaking.

I used titebond II, 1 5/8 coarse threaded screws, and 1.5" nails. I tested for sealing by drilling a 1" hole in the box and attaching a shop vac, using the blowing side I wet the joints with soapy water (the same method used for tires and hoses). I would have had pics but my camera is in Italy right now....

I did this because I had some thinking to do. Last season, my spl boxes were all built using pre-drilled and countersunk screws, and titebond II, I never had a joint failure. I did have a baffle break in one of my boxes, and the joints were completely intact.

[Godsmack 361]

Way to go the extra mile Audio-neon

J

[DevilDriver 28]

I prefer brad nails if the cuts are good. The best glue is of little use if the cuts aren't straight.....

[mpimm 0]

Good man for doing some testing.

[ramos 2]

Big fan of biscuit joints myself, but that's mostly in birch ply.

I've snapped a handful of screws in the past though none of them were in end grain.

I have never messed with biscuit joints in mdf. I have a biscuit cutter and use it for mostly ply like you said. Have you tried it with mdf ?

[topgun 262]

Hmmm, I've never used biscuits in MDF either, although I do try to stay away from MDF as much as possible. I'll imagine it wouldn't help out much more than screws, though I can't say I see a point of using biscuits in mdf though. If it works good though, I'm always up for trying something new.

[fuzzyping 0]

Hmmm, I've never used biscuits in MDF either, although I do try to stay away from MDF as much as possible. I'll imagine it wouldn't help out much more than screws, though I can't say I see a point of using biscuits in mdf though. If it works good though, I'm always up for trying something new.

Actually, I can see where it would add some integrity. Biscuits by themselves aren't strong, but they increase the surface area for adhesion.

[///M5 2,833]

Hmmm, I've never used biscuits in MDF either, although I do try to stay away from MDF as much as possible. I'll imagine it wouldn't help out much more than screws, though I can't say I see a point of using biscuits in mdf though. If it works good though, I'm always up for trying something new.

Actually, I can see where it would add some integrity. Biscuits by themselves aren't strong, but they increase the surface area for adhesion.

I am not so sure. Being mdf likes to shatter when you cut it I don't think I'd try, in particular when the weak point is the mdf and not the glue anyways. The screws add integrity away from the joint and of course a biscuit would as well, I think the structural integrity you'd give up to get them in would be self defeating.

[fuzzyping 0]

Hmmm, I've never used biscuits in MDF either, although I do try to stay away from MDF as much as possible. I'll imagine it wouldn't help out much more than screws, though I can't say I see a point of using biscuits in mdf though. If it works good though, I'm always up for trying something new.

Actually, I can see where it would add some integrity. Biscuits by themselves aren't strong, but they increase the surface area for adhesion.

I am not so sure. Being mdf likes to shatter when you cut it I don't think I'd try, in particular when the weak point is the mdf and not the glue anyways. The screws add integrity away from the joint and of course a biscuit would as well, I think the structural integrity you'd give up to get them in would be self defeating.

I should have stressed could, not would. I'd like to think that using a quality biscuit joiner will cause no more structural distress than pre-drilling for screws. Sounds like another science project for audio-neon.

[helotaxi 46]

I won't bother for two reasons 1) its a total mess and 2) it will leave a void in the joint in an already weak medium. Not worth it in MDF. I just do a butt joint with a 45 deg piece on the inside that I brad nail in place while the glue dries. I don't bother with screws in MDF either. Just cover the joint surfaces in glue, tack it in place with a few brads and then clamp the crap out of it and wipe the excess glue off the outside and run a bead of glue on the inside to make sure I have a good seal. With straight cuts I've never had a problem with sealing or with needing screws to pull a joint together. I've also never had a joint fail but I don't do SPL rigs so my requirements are a bit less.

[theothermike 0]

spax screws + glue + rabbited joint > rest

however the difference between straight glue and screws has its pros and cons, sealing issues with screws and slight strength with just glue.

[mrogowski 6]

I've seen MDF fail while the glue joint remained intact...

[Lord Baccus 1]

I've seen MDF fail while the glue joint remained intact...

Fiber Glass Resin would have prevented that

i do all the insides of my boxxs

[tejcurrent 13]

I have built several boxes using screws and my nailer (same difference imo). The last one I had to use screws because the mdf was warped (not my choice of wood so dont harp) and I was literally bending the wood to fit. It ended up working great. For the last few boxes in my vehicle though I used nails and woodglue. One of the more recent ones I put 45s in the corners then fiberglassed the entire inside (not just resin- mat too). Perfectly sealed and the strongest box I'd say I've ever built.

I think screws have their place, but a nailer is just soo much quicker even if just holding things inplace until you add a few screws.

Edited May 1, 2008 by tejcurrent

[bjfish11 35]

My opinion...

I use screws on all assemblies. Only time I use brads is for putting in 45's or the occasional "custom" part, that does not effect the structure of the enclosure.

Like many have said, it is the glue that bonds the box together. However, you want the panels to be held together as tight as possible while the glue cures. What would create a tighter joint? A fastener that is pushing both panels in the same direction (brads) or a fastener that is pulling the panels together (screws)?

The tighter the joint, the better the seal.

Do I think brad nails make a crappy enclosure? No. But I feel screws make a better one. To me, the higher quality is worth the extra few minutes it takes me to use screws.

Edited May 3, 2008 by bjfish11

[Kovemaster559 1]

My opinion...

I use screws on all assemblies. Only time I use brads is for putting in 45's or the occasional "custom" part, that does not effect the structure of the enclosure.

Like many have said, it is the glue that bonds the box together. However, you want the panels to be held together as tight as possible while the glue cures. What would create a tighter joint? A fastener that is pushing both panels in the same direction (brads) or a fastener that is pulling the panels together (screws)?

The tighter the joint, the better the seal.

Do I think brad nails make a crappy enclosure? No. But I feel screws make a better one. To me, the higher quality is worth the extra few minutes it takes me to use screws.

thats y you are so good fish. but my method clamp it down then nail it then screw it its the best way to make it super strong

[ANeonRider 3]

I've seen MDF fail while the glue joint remained intact...

Fiber Glass Resin would have prevented that

i do all the insides of my boxxs

No, it will not.

Resin alone has no strength...

Wish people would figure this out already, not sure how this myth got started.

[ramos 2]

I've seen MDF fail while the glue joint remained intact...

Fiber Glass Resin would have prevented that

i do all the insides of my boxxs

No it won't. Only real purpose for resining the inside of an enclosure is to either seal it or smooth it out. That's it

[ramos 2]

I've seen MDF fail while the glue joint remained intact...

Fiber Glass Resin would have prevented that

i do all the insides of my boxxs

No, it will not.

Resin alone has no strength...

Wish people would figure this out already, not sure how this myth got started.

Damn it stop posting while I'm posting lol

[ANeonRider 3]

Scott 1

Ramos 0

[helotaxi 46]

I only use brads to hold the parts in place while I get the clamps out...kind like using a tack weld to hold the parts until you can lay a good bead. Once the glue is set, the screws are pointless and make it diffucult to clean up the edges with a big roundover bit

[bjfish11 35]

Oh definitely, if you are going to be putting a large radius roundover on the edges, brads are the best option. The screws will tear up your bits, where the brads wont.

[solobarric 0]

well if your going to do it, might as well do it right. I wood glue all pieces and use a brad nailer to hold everything in place. Then before the glue dries I screw it all down useing brax screws, then I liquid nails all of the inside seams. Then I resin and fiberglass all of the inside seams and joints to add some strength, seems a little bit of a overkill but will last a lifetime.