Screws vs. Brad Nails

[Big E 4]

I've built quite a few boxes over the last few years, and they've all been with screws. However, I have the opportunity of getting a brad nailer (either a Hitachi or Porter and Cable) for free. It seems like brad nailing would make things go a lot faster, but I have no experience with them. I was wondering which you guys prefer, and why?

[audio-neon 34]

brad nailing is soooo much faster

[JimJ 11]

Indeed.

And the holes you have to fill are a lot smaller, if you're painting or staining the finished product

[Acidburn 10]

brad nailers are awesome

[zane 0]

Depends on the enclosure really.....

If its larger, odd shaped, or built primarily for an SPL Application, or even if it is to house a "monster" sub, then I'd say wood screws all the way.

Smaller enclosures, you may be able to get away with brad nails and glue.

Yes, brad nailers are a lot faster. I use them to mock up all of the enclosures I build, even the ones that eventually get wood screws.

My own preference is to use wood screws on any enclosure. Simply from a strength point of veiw.

Give the brad nailer a try. They have plenty of other uses if the enclosure bit doesn't work out.

[patented17 21]

I prefer the brad nails because of the ease of use. In the end, it's the wood glue that makes the difference, that's whats really holding the box together.

[audio-neon 34]

Depends on the enclosure really.....

If its larger, odd shaped, or built primarily for an SPL Application, or even if it is to house a "monster" sub, then I'd say wood screws all the way.

Smaller enclosures, you may be able to get away with brad nails and glue.

Yes, brad nailers are a lot faster. I use them to mock up all of the enclosures I build, even the ones that eventually get wood screws.

My own preference is to use wood screws on any enclosure. Simply from a strength point of veiw.

Give the brad nailer a try. They have plenty of other uses if the enclosure bit doesn't work out.

That's funny, last time I checked the wood glue is stronger than the wood screws anyways. Brad nails really don't make a structural difference at all.

[zane 0]

That's funny, last time I checked the wood glue is stronger than the wood screws anyways. Brad nails really don't make a structural difference at all.

Pretty general statement there isn't it?

I have over 14 years experience in the construction industry, and I'd typically put more faith in the wood screw than the wood glue.

I've seen wood glue seams break infinitely more times than wood screws pulling loose.

[audio-neon 34]

That's funny, last time I checked the wood glue is stronger than the wood screws anyways. Brad nails really don't make a structural difference at all.

Pretty general statement there isn't it?

I have over 14 years experience in the construction industry, and I'd typically put more faith in the wood screw than the wood glue.

I've seen wood glue seams break infinitely more times than wood screws pulling loose.

And I've destroyed hundreds, let me emphasize, hundreds of MDF boxes in my career and I have yet to see the wood glue joint break before the mdf itself.

[audio-neon 34]

Oh, and I'll add that I have done butt joints with just glue and no nails or wood screws without premature failures.

Oh and I've been on job sites my entire life... Funny thing is, it taught me nothing about subwoofer box construction.

[mpimm 0]

Completely agree with audio-neon.

I have probably built about 20 boxes using just glue. I dado all the pieces and then clamp them together.

I have dropped my boxes 16 feet on to ice and couldn't get them to break. I have yet to have one fail.

Screws, brads, clamps... anything will do as long as the wood is held properly during the gluing process.

If your wood is flat and you don't have 20 clamps, brads will make quick work of things.

[ronrico418 0]

Oh, and I'll add that I have done butt joints with just glue and no nails or wood screws without premature failures.

Oh and I've been on job sites my entire life... Funny thing is, it taught me nothing about subwoofer box construction.

Agree 100% best to use the slowest curing wood glue you can find more time to set then go with the ol porter cable nail gun, I use 16 guage. Love it - If I use wood screws its cuz of a bad cut I need to pull tighter - Thats IT!!!!! and then definately use a coarser screw

[zane 0]

Oh, and I'll add that I have done butt joints with just glue and no nails or wood screws without premature failures.

Oh and I've been on job sites my entire life... Funny thing is, it taught me nothing about subwoofer box construction.

Uggh......

Now I remember why I stopped going to forums..............

Obviously you missed the material and observational learning part on the job sites. That or relating whats learned to similar projects.

Building a house is a thousand times more complex than a simple subwoofer box. Yet both involve nails, screws, and glue.

Of those 3 general materials, I've seen litterally thousands of houses, buildings, complexes, stores, where nails and glue have failed. (And created quite a headache for repairs) Screws on the other hand, even rusted from weather, 98% of the time were still fastened in their original loactions, and continuing to serve their intended purpose.

Now the real funny thing........

Of your (emphasized) "hundreds" of destroyed MDF Enclosures where the glue joint has held and the wood has broke; I can also point out the (emphasized) "thousands" of times that I've yet to see a screw fail before the wood breaks in MDF, HDF, PLY, CDX, OSB, Particle, etc......

If the wood glue alone works for you, so be it.

Your general statement of wood glue being stronger than wood screws is where I have the problem.

On that note, I'm done with this one.....................

[audio-neon 34]

Oh, and I'll add that I have done butt joints with just glue and no nails or wood screws without premature failures.

Oh and I've been on job sites my entire life... Funny thing is, it taught me nothing about subwoofer box construction.

Uggh......

Now I remember why I stopped going to forums..............

Obviously you missed the material and observational learning part on the job sites. That or relating whats learned to similar projects.

Building a house is a thousand times more complex than a simple subwoofer box. Yet both involve nails, screws, and glue.

Of those 3 general materials, I've seen litterally thousands of houses, buildings, complexes, stores, where nails and glue have failed. (And created quite a headache for repairs) Screws on the other hand, even rusted from weather, 98% of the time were still fastened in their original loactions, and continuing to serve their intended purpose.

Now the real funny thing........

Of your (emphasized) "hundreds" of destroyed MDF Enclosures where the glue joint has held and the wood has broke; I can also point out the (emphasized) "thousands" of times that I've yet to see a screw fail before the wood breaks in MDF, HDF, PLY, CDX, OSB, Particle, etc......

If the wood glue alone works for you, so be it.

Your general statement of wood glue being stronger than wood screws is where I have the problem.

On that note, I'm done with this one.....................

I agree that house construction vs. sub box construction is different. I stand corrected as I worded what I was trying to say incorrectly.

The woodscrews would not fail, it would have been the mdf around them. I was trying to point out that generally the weakest part of the joint in 3/4" mdf is around where the screws are. Simply b/c MDF is rather fragile like particle board, it peels apart.

I would also clarify that my jobsite experience is in demolition, and pavement/sidewalks as I do it as a hobby for my grandfathers company when he needs an extra laborer. I have never constructed a house, or done extensive carpentry work in any job thus far.

[mpimm 0]

I just sat here for 10 minutes thinking of things that I disagree with but I don't care to argue about what has been said. I don't see this going anywhere.

I would just like to say that - with regard to the initial topic - in my personal experience, I have had no issues building enclosures without screws. I would encourage you to give the nailer a try and if it doesn't work for you, go back to what you know works

[ramos 2]

Depends on the enclosure really.....

If its larger, odd shaped, or built primarily for an SPL Application, or even if it is to house a "monster" sub, then I'd say wood screws all the way.

Smaller enclosures, you may be able to get away with brad nails and glue.

Yes, brad nailers are a lot faster. I use them to mock up all of the enclosures I build, even the ones that eventually get wood screws.

My own preference is to use wood screws on any enclosure. Simply from a strength point of veiw.

Give the brad nailer a try. They have plenty of other uses if the enclosure bit doesn't work out.

HOLY HELL IT'S ZANE Where you been hiding man ?

[ramos 2]

AIght I'll throw my two cents in . A proper joint made with glue in mdf is structurally just as strong as the surrounding mdf. But there are times I use screws on certain applications not so much to keep the glue joint together but more to support the mdf itself and hoepfully keep it from splitting and just crumbling to crap. High power situations mainly. But most of the times I'm slinging brads as it's so much easier. Is a joint mechanically fastened with a screw stronger than a joint fastened with a brad ? Sure, that's why the screw was invented in the first place, better holding power over a nail. But in normal everday situations a glued and brad nailed joint is more than sufficient.

[BKOLFO4 29]

but more to support the mdf itself and hoepfully keep it from splitting and just crumbling to crap. High power situations mainly.

Definitely true. I have had a couple of boxes come apart, and the glue joint is fine - it splits the MDF just beyond the point where the glue soaked in.

Brad nailer is great for "normal" applications, but for high powered crazy stuff, screws will be a better solutions.

If I am going to screw a box together, I still brad nail on 10-12" spacing to hold the joint in place while I pre-drill and screw.

One other point to consider - If you want the joint pulled really tight, it is not going to happen with the nailer like it will clamping or screwing it. Since I weigh a lot, I put a lot of weight on my box while I am using the brad nailer.

[Second Skin Rep Jon 17]

Used both.

No problems with either.

Brad nails are 1000x faster.

If you are going to use screws (which I don't have a problem with), try to get your hands on some made specifically for MDF like these:

They work awesomely.

Just my two cents.

[Lord Baccus 1]

Used both.

No problems with either.

Brad nails are 1000x faster.

If you are going to use screws (which I don't have a problem with), try to get your hands on some made specifically for MDF like these:

They work awesomely.

Just my two cents.

i use all 3 as i am Hell on a poorlly constructed box and i add FG Resin as a 4th measure of insureance & peace of mind

[Second Skin Rep Jon 17]

i use all 3 as i am Hell on a poorlly constructed box and i add FG Resin as a 4th measure of insureance & peace of mind

LOL, would that be the "Better safe then sorry" approach?

[mrray13 30]

wow, zane was here!! awesome!

and my $.02 goes like this. if one is building a daliy driver enclosure, glue and brads are plenty more then adequate. the glue is the ultimate holding force in that application, and most DDs usually don't create enough presuure to test it.

that said, if one is building a spl enclosure and plans on using big power, ie; 10kwrms or more, i'd suggest screws with the glue and resin. i've seen plenty of brad/glued boxes come apart due to the pressures created. and always at the joints.

and where does one get those screws pictured above? i've not seen anything like them locally (southern illinois) and we have menards, home depot and lowes. and since i have a huge box to build sometime this summer, i'd like to give those a go.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[JimJ 11]

Used both.

No problems with either.

Brad nails are 1000x faster.

If you are going to use screws (which I don't have a problem with), try to get your hands on some made specifically for MDF like these:

They work awesomely.

Just my two cents.

i use all 3 as i am Hell on a poorlly constructed box and i add FG Resin as a 4th measure of insureance & peace of mind

Resin by itself has extremely little strength.

[helotaxi 46]

Big fan of biscuit joints myself, but that's mostly in birch ply.

I've snapped a handful of screws in the past though none of them were in end grain.

[///M5 2,833]

Resin by itself has extremely little strength.

I would actually strengthen that statement and say that the resin can make it weaker.