Two-way subwoofers?

[creyc 1]

I'm wondering if anyone has positive experience or success running or a two-way subwoofer for the task of LSQ.

I know two-way subwoofer systems aren't popular, at least today, but with enough planning I don't see why someone couldn't take advantage of multiple drivers to split the task of subwoofer duties and make tremendous gains in output without investing in a power plant of amplifiers to drive a single woofer to frequencies it simply isn't efficient at.

Putting it into practice, achieving low bass (lets say 45-80Hz) is fairly difficult to achieve with my equipment in my car. But getting sub-bass, 15-40Hz isn't much trouble for me.

Now rather than sacrifice on the 15-40Hz sub-bass region to gain some "upper" bass, why not find equipment which performs best in the area lacking? Perhaps something with a higher Fs and suitable Qts, maybe a pro-audio (sub)woofer?

Now some will say it's all in the midbass drivers but I disagree. There is a distinct lack in output above 40Hz, far below the range most midbass drivers should work at. Heck, in the realm of pro sound this is where most subwoofers begin, not end as in my case. Of course to manage 100-200Hz proper midbass selection is crucial, thats really another topic in itself.

[emperorjj1 2]

hmm interesting.... subscribed

[audio-neon 34]

I'm wondering if anyone has positive experience or success running or a two-way subwoofer for the task of LSQ.

I know two-way subwoofer systems aren't popular, at least today, but with enough planning I don't see why someone couldn't take advantage of multiple drivers to split the task of subwoofer duties and make tremendous gains in output without investing in a power plant of amplifiers to drive a single woofer to frequencies it simply isn't efficient at.

Putting it into practice, achieving low bass (lets say 45-80Hz) is fairly difficult to achieve with my equipment in my car. But getting sub-bass, 15-40Hz isn't much trouble for me.

Now rather than sacrifice on the 15-40Hz sub-bass region to gain some "upper" bass, why not find equipment which performs best in the area lacking? Perhaps something with a higher Fs and suitable Qts, maybe a pro-audio (sub)woofer?

Now some will say it's all in the midbass drivers but I disagree. There is a distinct lack in output above 40Hz, far below the range most midbass drivers should work at. Heck, in the realm of pro sound this is where most subwoofers begin, not end as in my case. Of course to manage 100-200Hz proper midbass selection is crucial, thats really another topic in itself.

I know in Jeff's sq car he chose to go out this by choosing a bigger mid-bass driver (think his crossover is set to 52 hz or something really low like that (8" mid-bass) and instead of running multiple subs he chose 2 18" woofers in IB and eq'd the crap out of them to keep the response flat from 8-60hz.

[ANeonRider 3]

That's what I did as well... large, high output midbass IB in the doors (Peerless SLS 8") coupled with a long throw 15" subwoofer IB, which was calmed down with the EQ to have a flat sounding response from inaudible to 100Hz.

Crossover is set at HPF 36Hz LPF 220Hz on the midbass & 40Hz LPF on the subwoofer.

[emperorjj1 2]

awww that would be awesome...

[Lord Baccus 1]

i did notice i was missing the higher bass notes as well yesterday...

if i were going to do a 2way sub setup

id range it from 20Hz/35 - & - 35Hz-80

[///M5 2,833]

i did notice i was missing the higher bass notes as well yesterday...

if i were going to do a 2way sub setup

id range it from 20Hz/35 - & - 35Hz-80

Your ranges make no sense. Scott's make a lot. I can localize 50hz, so therefore anything playing anywhere near it needs to be up front and stereo. Once you are doing that though you might as well take advantage of the cone area and get a driver capable of playing at least up to 150hz, preferably 200-300hz....but of course that would be a midbass, but also the solution to the OP's issue.

[Lord Baccus 1]

i was playing a song yesterday that hit all the low notes and as the freq was rising i could hear where it just STOPED/CUTOFF ?

i guess it was over 120Hz just cut out

so do i need some 8" mid bass drivers ?

[///M5 2,833]

*pukes

120hz is WAY too high for subs to play That has to sound like ass.

As for what you need, it may be more than your doors can handle depending on how loud you listen.

[lithium 358]

have u every heard someone say they have too much midbass... i wish i could say that

[creyc 1]

Too much midbass? Not in a car.

I'm much more familiar in the pro-audio/hi-fi/headphone territory and midbass must just be easier to achieve.

Obviously running subs up to 120Hz would sound terrible. This isn't my intention at all. I like what ANeonRider mentioned, but instead of a full-on SQ setup I am willing to trade some overall fidelity for increased output. I want to get as close as possible with the speakers/enclosure but I will probably pass on the crazy EQ'ing, at least for now.

8" peerless SLS sounds interesting, but with the intentions of keeping up with two 15's Havocs, and starting at 36Hz, I wonder if I should be looking at something larger.

[ANeonRider 3]

I would be, actually, I'd be looking at integrating something Pro Audio in a 10" if you are willing to do the work to get them in there.

[///M5 2,833]

These will easily play to 300hz.

http://madisound.secureserverdot.com/catal...;products_id=79

If you need more output though pro audio is your other choice.

[creyc 1]

What makes those drivers capable of playing so high? The T/S properties don't look to different from many 'smaller' subs I've looked at before. I suppose personal experience is difficult to argue though!

As far as pro audio drivers, if I were looking in the 10-12" space what should I be looking for to narrow down my choices?

Higher Fs around 30+?

Low Qts?

Something different altogether?

Thanks!

[///M5 2,833]

The Aura 12" actually has a pretty decent response up to 1200hz or so, I'd never use it that high but they are capable.

As for your pro audio question, I'd look for people who have tried different ones as buying on specs doesnt' usually yield what you expect. Generically speaking I'd start looking at B&C stuff.

[todd.brust 29]

What makes those drivers capable of playing so high? The T/S properties don't look to different from many 'smaller' subs I've looked at before. I suppose personal experience is difficult to argue though!

As far as pro audio drivers, if I were looking in the 10-12" space what should I be looking for to narrow down my choices?

Higher Fs around 30+?

Low Qts?

Something different altogether?

Thanks!

This looks to be very interesting. But inductance is a spec to look at when figuring how high the driver will play. The lower the inductance is, the higher the driver will play.

As for speakers in the 10-12 inch range with matching t/s specs. I'd say look at the pro stuff.

I don't know why I always suggest AE speakers but I am going to. They have 12" drivers with the capability to extend up to the 2khz range. I think i just really want to see someone use their drivers.

[JimJ 11]

Altec 12's with alnico magnets are some of the best sounding 12" midbasses I've heard, not sure how well they'd work IB, though...

[creyc 1]

12" midbasses in doors!

Would sounds in the 50-90Hz range necessarily be directional? I'm hoping my new subwoofer box design will take care of this range at least to 80, but if not I'll need to plan accordingly with the midbasses.

Any reason you question their performance in an IB, JimJ? What would the ideal enclosure be? I'm trying to get creative here as far as where and how to modify my truck to accommodate.

[sqguy 0]

I keep wondering how this TB shallow 10 would work for midbass http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=264-862

The chart is nice about 40-300Hz, so it would not play very high.

I have heard/worked on multiple size sub setups that worked without crossovers, but I think you need some luck to have it work well and everyone will laugh at you for not being proper. The other issue is yet another amp and crossovers to do that with but sure sounds like fun. My 4 12s IB work great under ~40Hz, I have turned the crossover higher and then run the parametric to boost lows. It sounded nice up to maybe 80Hz, pretty flat to ear with tight and sub bass. But my mids are weak so with one parametric I run it to boost mids instead at maybe 60 and up. I think the best bass setups I ever ran were 10" subs and 6x9, they can blend well. The 10s can have a hard time around 30hz and under. The crossover slope and response of the subs can make a big difference; if they run up under the mids it can work great...you think it is in front.

No doubt the issue is more driver in front. Think I can fit 8 or 6x9 in front but then have no place for mids, unless I run 6x9 HP. I have a set of 4" comps, really wish I could fit the 4s in and run with 8" midbass...with the 4 12s IB it might really fit together well.

[JimJ 11]

Any reason you question their performance in an IB, JimJ?

Because they were built for refrigerator-sized horns

B&C neodymium drivers would be a lot more flexible in installation.

Would sounds in the 50-90Hz range necessarily be directional?

I've found that I like subwoofers when they roll off starting above 50Hz...a strong 80Hz presence is going to be noticeable behind you, especially with the cone area you said you had.

[emperorjj1 2]

damn this is crazy

[JimJ 11]

What's crazy?

[emperorjj1 2]

this thread... i subscribed bc ive always wanted a real beefy midbass (although now i have a real good idea what im going to get) but anyway i wasn't expecting to see 10s and 12s in the suggestion box because of their sheer size and how the hell could they really be implemented in the front of a car is beyond me... but im still reading with open ears trying to soak up as much as i can about the issue

[JimJ 11]

Sheet metal is just an obstacle to be overcome

[emperorjj1 2]

lol for me the window motor is a much bigger obstacle... lol tried my hx2 8" sub as midbass and meh sorta what im looking for but not really