Propolusion Choice of the future

[dem beats 1,223]

I don't even beleive there is some impending crisis. we aren't even pumping our own oil here in the US the way we could.

True, but just because we can, does it mean we should?

I guess it depends on the technology, I'd be all for more offshore wind farms that some people are opposed to, but drilling in national wildlife refuges is a little meh...

The crisis is that the old business model is basically holding us hostage to a corporate system that's going to keep charging and charging us. If large amounts of people broke off from that, we'd have some very interesting results...

This isn't related to vehicles per say, but the cost of energy in general is making a lot of renewables suddenly very affordable. The last time I was at my folks' place, we spec'ed out a recirculating solar hot water system, at current propane rates ($3.50/gal) it'd pay for itself in five years. And that's only going to get better.

I would say yes we should. I think the earth should be a top priority but to not take advantage of the fuel we could use makes no sense. This wind and solar idea are pretty good no doubt. I would do it even if I would only break even as it would make me more independent. Wind is a real real hard to use source,only in the US would it work well as we don't populate much of our nation, and have large open spaces..... that said I'm still for nuclear. Clean and efficient, and requires less operational energy. It self sustains.

With Gas I feel the same way. It's the least of the evils we have, the human race will run around like confused chickens with the self created crisis. I don't expect what works here to work in the rest of the world, just as I don't expect what they have to work here. I think it's insane to not make use of something as efficient as crude.

The one point I feel in agreement with you is that tapping in wildlife reserves is sketchy at best, but it would probably cost less to move every plant animal and rock out of the way and create an indestructable bubble around the area, than to switch to another fuel mach schnell before the tech catches up with the desire.

[sqguy 0]

I can tell you one thing, you will not find any free veggie oil around here. I talked to a farmer that was going to buy a rig to make it and he said it was suddenly so expensive to buy the oil you had to do bulk to make any money. That was two years ago.

People do waste a lot of fuel here. I have seen for years a suburban pull into a parking lot and one person gets out, so maybe gas was too cheap since the government will not control vehicle consumption. The bad part is a large family that actually needs that vehicle can't afford to drive it now. On the other hand you can't afford to insure two vehicles for one person (who can't drive both at once), it is cheaper to burn more gas then have a second car...or used to be. High prices will kill some things like boating and tourism. I'm so amazed and saddened that nothing can be done to help ease this situation today, or was done in preparation. But even if you fake safety inspections on jet planes you can't get fired from the government.

Oil is a great cheap fuel, it will be hard to beat it. From what I have read making hydrogen is not an easy task either. I think if we could make a better battery, that would change things.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Mercedes-Benz-220D-Diesel-4-Door-Sedan_W0QQitemZ320238977097QQcmdZViewItem

I want that ^^^.

[Adrian_D 520]

diesel cost more than Gas...

i want 1 that runs on water or air...

It only costs more because they are refining less of it. If everything switched over to diesel, prices would go down on it. (not to mention we could use those other sources as well).

Again, cheaper in Europe.

Unfortunately that is not the case is some European countries

[JimJ 11]

I don't even beleive there is some impending crisis. we aren't even pumping our own oil here in the US the way we could.

True, but just because we can, does it mean we should?

I guess it depends on the technology, I'd be all for more offshore wind farms that some people are opposed to, but drilling in national wildlife refuges is a little meh...

The crisis is that the old business model is basically holding us hostage to a corporate system that's going to keep charging and charging us. If large amounts of people broke off from that, we'd have some very interesting results...

This isn't related to vehicles per say, but the cost of energy in general is making a lot of renewables suddenly very affordable. The last time I was at my folks' place, we spec'ed out a recirculating solar hot water system, at current propane rates ($3.50/gal) it'd pay for itself in five years. And that's only going to get better.

I would say yes we should. I think the earth should be a top priority but to not take advantage of the fuel we could use makes no sense. This wind and solar idea are pretty good no doubt. I would do it even if I would only break even as it would make me more independent. Wind is a real real hard to use source,only in the US would it work well as we don't populate much of our nation, and have large open spaces..... that said I'm still for nuclear. Clean and efficient, and requires less operational energy. It self sustains.

With Gas I feel the same way. It's the least of the evils we have, the human race will run around like confused chickens with the self created crisis. I don't expect what works here to work in the rest of the world, just as I don't expect what they have to work here. I think it's insane to not make use of something as efficient as crude.

The one point I feel in agreement with you is that tapping in wildlife reserves is sketchy at best, but it would probably cost less to move every plant animal and rock out of the way and create an indestructable bubble around the area, than to switch to another fuel mach schnell before the tech catches up with the desire.

I'm all for nuclear power if we did what they do in France and run reactors that convert the waste into plutonium and use that for fuel too...we're burying all that waste that could be re-used, with absolutely no way of knowing how that waste is going to affect people potentially thousands of years in the future.

[dem beats 1,223]

I don't even beleive there is some impending crisis. we aren't even pumping our own oil here in the US the way we could.

True, but just because we can, does it mean we should?

I guess it depends on the technology, I'd be all for more offshore wind farms that some people are opposed to, but drilling in national wildlife refuges is a little meh...

The crisis is that the old business model is basically holding us hostage to a corporate system that's going to keep charging and charging us. If large amounts of people broke off from that, we'd have some very interesting results...

This isn't related to vehicles per say, but the cost of energy in general is making a lot of renewables suddenly very affordable. The last time I was at my folks' place, we spec'ed out a recirculating solar hot water system, at current propane rates ($3.50/gal) it'd pay for itself in five years. And that's only going to get better.

I would say yes we should. I think the earth should be a top priority but to not take advantage of the fuel we could use makes no sense. This wind and solar idea are pretty good no doubt. I would do it even if I would only break even as it would make me more independent. Wind is a real real hard to use source,only in the US would it work well as we don't populate much of our nation, and have large open spaces..... that said I'm still for nuclear. Clean and efficient, and requires less operational energy. It self sustains.

With Gas I feel the same way. It's the least of the evils we have, the human race will run around like confused chickens with the self created crisis. I don't expect what works here to work in the rest of the world, just as I don't expect what they have to work here. I think it's insane to not make use of something as efficient as crude.

The one point I feel in agreement with you is that tapping in wildlife reserves is sketchy at best, but it would probably cost less to move every plant animal and rock out of the way and create an indestructable bubble around the area, than to switch to another fuel mach schnell before the tech catches up with the desire.

I'm all for nuclear power if we did what they do in France and run reactors that convert the waste into plutonium and use that for fuel too...we're burying all that waste that could be re-used, with absolutely no way of knowing how that waste is going to affect people potentially thousands of years in the future.

Jim I like you more and more every day.

No matter what they say I think you're an allright kinda guy!

I said this in one of the HT forums I'm on, and I feel really strong about it. Be it religion or enviromental, the politicing agendas in the US have got out of hand, and it's now about selling an issue to the people and not addressing real issues. I hate when people try to rally people around something with no imperical data because they would rather get their way than make progress.