My impressions of the next-gen SI Mag 12

[///M5 2,833]

While I must say that I prefer a sealed alignment, I feel that the market segment for the old Mag was mostly ported so I am very curious as to the decision to make a sealed box woofer.

[jntar 15]

While I must say that I prefer a sealed alignment, I feel that the market segment for the old Mag was mostly ported so I am very curious as to the decision to make a sealed box woofer.

Sean, the market on the old one was indeed ported by hype. Actually the sub is just as good if not better in my opinion in a sealed environment. I have lots of play time with the 3rd gen mag...maybe more than anyone else as far as diversity in enclosures.

SI was known to make great subs that were originally wanted in sealed allignments. (From what I gather) From what Nick said they are going back to their roots. Which I respect

I would like to demo the new mag, Ive asked and even offered to buy one right now. So Nick, my offer still stands...send me a proto or Ill buy one and give you a review before I rip everything out of the truck

[///M5 2,833]

I understand that Justin; however, when you look around the web most people that are using them are using them ported. I didn't mean to say that it wasn't a sealed performer at all, just that the customer base seemed to use it for other things

[JimJ 11]

I understand that Justin; however, when you look around the web most people that are using them are using them ported. I didn't mean to say that it wasn't a sealed performer at all, just that the customer base seemed to use it for other things

But think about it, the people that don't destroy them outright are going to be selling cheap on the used market, whining that "dis woofa don't bang on **** Jeezy yo"

It's a hell of a gamble to promote something like this on a place like ROE and CA.com...we'll see how it works...

[///M5 2,833]

I understand that Justin; however, when you look around the web most people that are using them are using them ported. I didn't mean to say that it wasn't a sealed performer at all, just that the customer base seemed to use it for other things

But think about it, the people that don't destroy them outright are going to be selling cheap on the used market, whining that "dis woofa don't bang on dat Jeezy yo"

It's a hell of a gamble to promote something like this on a place like ROE and CA.com...we'll see how it works...

I never said it bothered me, just worried about SI.

[jntar 15]

I understand that Justin; however, when you look around the web most people that are using them are using them ported. I didn't mean to say that it wasn't a sealed performer at all, just that the customer base seemed to use it for other things

But think about it, the people that don't destroy them outright are going to be selling cheap on the used market, whining that "dis woofa don't bang on dat Jeezy yo"

It's a hell of a gamble to promote something like this on a place like ROE and CA.com...we'll see how it works...

I never said it bothered me, just worried about SI.

I wouldnt...

The man has had crappy dealers, a warehouse broke into and countless amounts of woofers and even a computer stolen, yet he continues to make some of the best products backed by excellent customer service out there.

Its Nick's company and from his past actions I dont think anything could hold him back. From what I see of him, he makes subs for himself and then offers them to the public lol, that is how I would go about it as well.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

From what I see of him, he makes subs for himself and then offers them to the public lol, that is how I would go about it as well.

You hit right there on the head there.

[splblazer98 1]

You guys don't realize how much of a perfectionist nick is when it comes to this stuff, I'd wager he is more OCD than some ppl in mental institutions when it comes to the mag. Thats why when I heard him this excited about the driver it couldnt wait to give it a listen.

[subwoofery 0]

Since the proto is pretty much ready... Would there be a chance for us to have some pre-specs? qts, fs, mms and the likes?

[Electrodynamic 2]

Thanks for the replies guys. Haha, the thread got fairly interesting on page 2 for sure.

I know it might seem like it's a gamble to do a small enclosure, sealed only, lightweight driver on roe and ca.com, but keep in mind that a lot of people who post about ported post questions to whether or not they can use 1800 watts on a single driver. That's not what the Mag was designed to do at all. A lot of people don't post too - those are the ones who typically ran them sealed.

There are a lot of Mag users that wanted the best sound possible from the smallest enclosure possible. Listening to my customers lead me to design the next Mag for small, lightweight, shallow mounting depth, and sealed. That's what people wanted. They wanted a solution to bass without taking up the entire trunk. The new Mag is that solution. If I make a 1800+ watt ported bad boy it's going to be a 15 that will be completely different than the Mag. Like I said on ca.com, the Mag was originally designed for small sealed enclosures. Back in our beginings we thought we made a good sealed driver. Come to find out it worked really well ported. We found out why it did so well ported and continued to make it work both ported and sealed. Making it a true SQL, shove-1500-watts-on-it-and-nothing-is-damaged, big-boy was cool, but it was still a big, heavy, power hungry beast. People wanted something like that, and that's what I built. Sure it still sounded good, but it sounded good, not REALLY good. But now the market is flooded with drivers that will do what those customers want. The Mag slowly lost some of it's SQ and gained more SPL roots. Not entirely, but the tables went from something like a 50/50 split to a 40/60 split. And that's fine for people who want that, but that isn't where we are focusing anymore. It's time to take the Mag back to its roots - small sealed.

...but now the new Mag sealed is as loud as most drivers ported. And it takes up half the enclosure size. And it weighs 2/3 if not 1/2 what other woofers do. And it's 2" shallower. And it still handles 1000 watts. And it sounds better...a LOT better.

I know it might look risky, but I don't see it that way. There have been a LOT of people email me over the past few years asking for a shallow version of the Mag, and when I look at the market it makes total sense to do one. The new Mag hits 100% of the design goal. Not only our original design goal back in 2000, but also our new goal for 2008.

I'm stickin to it!

And Chad is right - I'm an OCD bastard that won't settle for anything other than perfection. Jim knows that too. How many other companies would sit for 2 years without any product to sell because they would rather wait for the best than to jump on something that would get them by? In car audio, I don't know of any other than us.

PS: Asia is shaping up nicely. (I'm in Shanghai right now). I spent all day yesterday meeting with the owner of a metal extrusion facility, eating lunch and dinner with him before making my way back to the hotel. Tomorrow I'm going to start my 3-day stay with the build house that's doing the final assembly work on the new Mag's and BM's.

[king alpha 0]

Why not continue building the last-gen Mag alongside the next-gen Mag?

Okay, I know I asked this before, and you already answered, but I can't find it anywhere (It may have been when that triple stacked Mag proto was shown....who knows). Anyway, your answer was something like: "why continue building an older sub, when the new one is better in every way for the same cost?" Something along that lines, and I agreed, at that time.

But the more I read, the more I believe there's two completly different markets for the old and new Mags. The new Mags for the "SQ" crowd that wants small enclosures, and the old Mag for the "LSQ" crowd that wants a sub that can take as much power as they can throw at it (also the previously mentioned RoE and CA.com crowd) and a 15" sub. Then you got the BMs below them. Everything's covered.

Edited March 23, 2008 by king alpha

[Bigbangtheory 0]

Man, this sub is right in my alley! I can't wait to be able to buy one of these. I already have a pretty small 1.5cft sealed box with a CVX in it, or maybe once I get my Fi Q sent back for a recone if I don't sell it first. But, either one of those are coming out when these go into production. To go smalled would be great! I imagine 750rms would get it going pretty good as it says 1000rms?

Also what would the price range from, or we don't know that yet? Thanks!

[Electrodynamic 2]

Why not continue building the last-gen Mag alongside the next-gen Mag?

Okay, I know I asked this before, and you already answered, but I can't find it anywhere (It may have been when that triple stacked Mag proto was shown....who knows). Anyway, your answer was something like: "why continue building an older sub, when the new one is better in every way for the same cost?" Something along that lines, and I agreed, at that time.

But the more I read, the more I believe there's two completly different markets for the old and new Mags. The new Mags for the "SQ" crowd that wants small enclosures, and the old Mag for the "LSQ" crowd that wants a sub that can take as much power as they can throw at it (also the previously mentioned RoE and CA.com crowd) and a 15" sub. Then you got the BMs below them. Everything's covered.

Like I said before, the 1800+ watt, power-soaking monster market is flooded. If you want a driver like that that requires 2+ cubes ported, then buy something else. That is NOT what the Mag is designed to do, period.

Read what I've written before - the new Mag sealed has the output of most ported 12's. Case in point. Why go incredibly larger (most of the time over 2X the enclosure size and double the weight) when you don't need to? And if you feel that you can hear the 0.6 dB difference going from 1000 watts to 1200 watts, then by all means throw that smidge more power on a different driver. What you'll end up doing is coming back to a Mag after 6 months of fooling around with settings, making 3 different enclosures, and spending 4x the money on a subwoofer system that you could have avoided the entire time just by purchasing a new Mag in the beginning.

I'm not making the new Mag a 1500 watt do-anything-you-want-to-to-it driver. The new Mag is for small sealed, phenomenal SQ, 1k watt power handling, good SPL, light weight. Period. It solves more sub-bass problems than the previous Mag's could have ever fathomed solving. Much more specific, much more wide-range problem solving.

[Electrodynamic 2]

Bigbang - search this forum. The prices and all the information regarding the new Mags are on this forum.

[1sashenka 0]

What's on the menu? Is it the new Mag I see? I'll have two of those then! Yum-Yum!!!!!

Edited March 23, 2008 by 1sashenka

[MKader17 332]

Very Interesting. This sub may very well be on my list when it comes time.

[Bigbangtheory 0]

Bigbang - search this forum. The prices and all the information regarding the new Mags are on this forum.

Yes, I read this before the other posts about it. Thanks and awesome price! Can't wait!

[zeero3 0]

Would the new Mag be happy with its LP crossover higher than the usual 70-80Hz?

[1sashenka 0]

Would the new Mag be happy with its LP crossover higher than the usual 70-80Hz?

...and yet, we have another question, which could have been unasked, if people read through threads carefully. To answer your question - YES. Playing very high and remaining very clean is one of this sub's fortes.

Edited March 27, 2008 by 1sashenka

[JimJ 11]

I'm still not a fan of high crossover points unless running subs properly staged in stereo.

Just my opinion, though. I'd much rather have a crossover point of 40Hz and some hellacious midbass than a higher Xover and weaker midbass, or having that strong midbass and having the potential for a peak right in the crossover region.

[Megalomaniac 0]

hmm 1k seems like a lot of power if i get it im still going to throw maybe only 300-600 i hope it lives like a champ.

[///M5 2,833]

I'm still not a fan of high crossover points unless running subs properly staged in stereo.

Just my opinion, though. I'd much rather have a crossover point of 40Hz and some hellacious midbass than a higher Xover and weaker midbass, or having that strong midbass and having the potential for a peak right in the crossover region.

Indeed. Not sure why anyone would shop for an SQ sub and then cross it higher than 50hz anyways.

[zeero3 0]

Would the new Mag be happy with its LP crossover higher than the usual 70-80Hz?

...and yet, we have another question, which could have been unasked, if people read through threads carefully. To answer your question - YES. Playing very high and remaining very clean is one of this sub's fortes.

... and yet, we have another jerk... For your info, I've been reading THIS thread and most of SI's theads about the new Mag daily for almost 3 weeks. Why don't you read through them carefully? I know it was stated that it COULD, that's why I asked smart-ass. Just because it COULD doesn't mean it's recommended does it? I know I'm new to posting on this forum, but that "jerkness" was not appropriate...

I intend on purchasing the new SI Mag based on testimonials and reputation ALONE, so excuse yourself that I'm asking a question as SIMPLE as the preferred crossover point. BTW, thank you JimJ for your honest, helpful opinion....

[1sashenka 0]

I'm still not a fan of high crossover points unless running subs properly staged in stereo.

Just my opinion, though. I'd much rather have a crossover point of 40Hz and some hellacious midbass than a higher Xover and weaker midbass, or having that strong midbass and having the potential for a peak right in the crossover region.

Indeed. Not sure why anyone would shop for an SQ sub and then cross it higher than 50hz anyways.

Agreed x2

[1sashenka 0]

Would the new Mag be happy with its LP crossover higher than the usual 70-80Hz?

...and yet, we have another question, which could have been unasked, if people read through threads carefully. To answer your question - YES. Playing very high and remaining very clean is one of this sub's fortes.

... and yet, we have another jerk... For your info, I've been reading THIS thread and most of SI's theads about the new Mag daily for almost 3 weeks. Why don't you read through them carefully? I know it was stated that it COULD, that's why I asked smart-ass. Just because it COULD doesn't mean it's recommended does it? I know I'm new to posting on this forum, but that "jerkness" was not appropriate...

I intend on purchasing the new SI Mag based on testimonials and reputation ALONE, so excuse yourself that I'm asking a question as SIMPLE as the preferred crossover point. BTW, thank you JimJ for your honest, helpful opinion....

Don't be so sensitive. No need for name calling, but I have been known to be a jerk sometimes. Thanks for putting me in my place.