subwoofer comparison

[JimJ 11]

Are there other drivers out there that can compare to the W6 in terms of SQ without the hefty price tag?

I'd say the new Magnum from Stereo Integrity offers W6v2-esque performance for less...

[nstaln 0]

Does anyone know any links to reviews (proffessional or magazine) of the underground or obscure subs? I would like to see what the people reviewing mainstream stuff for a while have to say about some of these subs.

[JimJ 11]

I would like to see what the people reviewing mainstream stuff for a while have to say about some of these subs.

Most magazine reviews of this kind of stuff are jokes, hell, the reviews of mainstream stuff are jokes a lot of the time as well.

The only way you're going to get an honest idea is by 1) listening to them in person, or 2) trying to get as many opinions from people who have the same goals as you.

[DevilDriver 28]

A mainstream company will typically have higher purchasing volumes and more sales; thus, they are typically in a better position with buildhouses to invest in R&D and request tooling that is out of the ordinary. However, these underground companies have extremely low overhead; they can sell their products for less and still have higher margins.

Both areas are equally capable of building excellent product lines, but underground companies typically have the advantage on value. Most people online recognize that and prefer to save a few bucks.

There is a bit of a trend online where people think that these underground companies are somehow better than the ones sold in stores; don't believe that for a second.

Be careful about reviews, as well. In the publication world, there aren't any magazines I trust to review a product objectively with the exception of VoiceCoil magazine, which is considered an industry periodical. Likewise, there are a lot of people online who review products but lack the requisite knowledge to really objectively isolate variables; thus, they are unable to adequately compare one product against another.

The RL-P (and other subs mentioned) are not underhung; there are relatively few underhung drivers out there. One of the best in recent memory you've already had your hands on.

Oh, and the T4 and XXX from Soundstream offer nothing particularly exceptional...for music, or for SPL. Unfortunately, Soundstream as a company has been like that for quite a while now.

[Lord Baccus 1]

i have yet to hear a JL W7 preform !!! they sound like a wet fart to me compaired to a Soundstream T4

Have you heard a W6v2 in a sealed enclosure versus that T4?

I have read some really nice reviews of the W6s. They seem a bit pricey though. Are there other drivers out there that can compare to the W6 in terms of SQ without the hefty price tag? My old Audiomobile Mass2012 was the best sounding sub I personally have evr heard....well kinda...it seemed to have a lot of mechanical noise..but in a trunk it sounded outstanding in cabin.

Does anyone know any links to reviews (proffessional or magazine) of the underground or obscure subs? I would like to see what the people reviewing mainstream stuff for a while have to say about some of these subs.

A mainstream company will typically have higher purchasing volumes and more sales; thus, they are typically in a better position with buildhouses to invest in R&D and request tooling that is out of the ordinary. However, these underground companies have extremely low overhead; they can sell their products for less and still have higher margins.

Both areas are equally capable of building excellent product lines, but underground companies typically have the advantage on value. Most people online recognize that and prefer to save a few bucks.

There is a bit of a trend online where people think that these underground companies are somehow better than the ones sold in stores; don't believe that for a second.

Be careful about reviews, as well. In the publication world, there aren't any magazines I trust to review a product objectively with the exception of VoiceCoil magazine, which is considered an industry periodical. Likewise, there are a lot of people online who review products but lack the requisite knowledge to really objectively isolate variables; thus, they are unable to adequately compare one product against another.

The RL-P (and other subs mentioned) are not underhung; there are relatively few underhung drivers out there. One of the best in recent memory you've already had your hands on.

Oh, and the T4 and XXX from Soundstream offer nothing particularly exceptional...for music, or for SPL. Unfortunately, Soundstream as a company has been like that for quite a while now.

1. there are better Subs with better Sq @ 1/2 the price of the JL/Tommy Hillfigure rich boy toy...

2. if you read magizine articals about a product it is usually written by the manufacturer, usually.. not at all Bias...

3. DD / Bring it on ill put my SS subs against any and all takers, they out preformed DigitalDesign 9515's in the same box with 1/2 the power

the DD subs did 153.3db with 2 IA 40.1 amps

in the same box the SoundStream T4 subs did a 154.6db w/ only 1 IA 40.1

with only 1 battery... i say beat me in the lane then talk smack.

2 weeks ago i used 1 M3mojoMaxx quad coil and did a 151.7db

the guy with 4 DD 9515 subs did a 151.5db & he had 4 batterys & bigger amps...

Edited March 16, 2008 by Lord Baccus

[JimJ 11]

1. there are better Subs with better Sq @ 1/2 the price of the JL/Tommy Hillfigure rich boy toy...

I'd hardly call the W6v2 a "rich boy toy". The $1300 Aura MR might have a little better claim to that, but even its $750 less-cosmetically-fancy cousin the NS is still worth it, IMO. But no matter what the price is, it's really irrelevant when you're talking about the actual product. Value is a relative thing...

2. if you read magizine articals about a product it is usually written by the manufacturer, usually.. not at all Bias...

Are you being sarcastic?

That's not at all how magazine reviews work...

[Lord Baccus 1]

1. there are better Subs with better Sq @ 1/2 the price of the JL/Tommy Hillfigure rich boy toy...

I'd hardly call the W6v2 a "rich boy toy". The $1300 Aura MR might have a little better claim to that, but even its $750 less-cosmetically-fancy cousin the NS is still worth it, IMO. But no matter what the price is, it's really irrelevant when you're talking about the actual product. Value is a relative thing...

2. if you read magaizine articals about a product it is usually written by the manufacturer, usually.. not at all Bias...

Are you being sarcastic?

That's not at all how magazine reviews work...

Yes i'm being sarcastic...

the artical's i read seem to be written by a 17yr old that just got his first sub & amp and it the most killer thing hes ever seen ...

but i was not aware there was a magazine like Voice coil...

do you have the link...?

and sorry i still to this day am NOT IMPRESSED by anything JL Audio has produced...

i don't care if they were giving that crap away id choose a different sub...

Edited March 16, 2008 by Lord Baccus

[///M5 2,833]

asking what impresses you in the sq realm is a bit of a joke LB...your experience is making noise, not music.

[mrray13 30]

The RL-P (and other subs mentioned) are not underhung; there are relatively few underhung drivers out there. One of the best in recent memory you've already had your hands on.

that's my bad for misrepresenting info. for whatever reason, stupidity or alcohol or both, i was thinking teh tc9 and other drivers were indeed underhung. my apologies and thanks for cleaning up my mess.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[mrray13 30]

i have yet to hear a JL W7 preform !!! they sound like a wet fart to me compaired to a Soundstream T4

Have you heard a W6v2 in a sealed enclosure versus that T4?

I have read some really nice reviews of the W6s. They seem a bit pricey though. Are there other drivers out there that can compare to the W6 in terms of SQ without the hefty price tag? My old Audiomobile Mass2012 was the best sounding sub I personally have evr heard....well kinda...it seemed to have a lot of mechanical noise..but in a trunk it sounded outstanding in cabin.

Does anyone know any links to reviews (proffessional or magazine) of the underground or obscure subs? I would like to see what the people reviewing mainstream stuff for a while have to say about some of these subs.

A mainstream company will typically have higher purchasing volumes and more sales; thus, they are typically in a better position with buildhouses to invest in R&D and request tooling that is out of the ordinary. However, these underground companies have extremely low overhead; they can sell their products for less and still have higher margins.

Both areas are equally capable of building excellent product lines, but underground companies typically have the advantage on value. Most people online recognize that and prefer to save a few bucks.

There is a bit of a trend online where people think that these underground companies are somehow better than the ones sold in stores; don't believe that for a second.

Be careful about reviews, as well. In the publication world, there aren't any magazines I trust to review a product objectively with the exception of VoiceCoil magazine, which is considered an industry periodical. Likewise, there are a lot of people online who review products but lack the requisite knowledge to really objectively isolate variables; thus, they are unable to adequately compare one product against another.

The RL-P (and other subs mentioned) are not underhung; there are relatively few underhung drivers out there. One of the best in recent memory you've already had your hands on.

Oh, and the T4 and XXX from Soundstream offer nothing particularly exceptional...for music, or for SPL. Unfortunately, Soundstream as a company has been like that for quite a while now.

1. there are better Subs with better Sq @ 1/2 the price of the JL/Tommy Hillfigure rich boy toy...

2. if you read magizine articals about a product it is usually written by the manufacturer, usually.. not at all Bias...

3. DD / Bring it on ill put my SS subs against any and all takers, they out preformed DigitalDesign 9515's in the same box with 1/2 the power

the DD subs did 153.3db with 2 IA 40.1 amps

in the same box the SoundStream T4 subs did a 154.6db w/ only 1 IA 40.1

with only 1 battery... i say beat me in the lane then talk smack.

2 weeks ago i used 1 M3mojoMaxx quad coil and did a 151.7db

the guy with 4 DD 9515 subs did a 151.5db & he had 4 batterys & bigger amps...

in the local world of spl you play in, teh SS subs might be something. no offense, but go play in dbdrag and see how far you get. those numbers you're posting regularly get beat with one amp, a pair of tens and one battery with car off. and god forbid you step into street c, where those numbers won't even get you into eliminations. until SS can step up (sundown is indeed proving themselves though) and play with the big dogs......

agian, no disrespect intended. but in the bigger picture, SS just isn't all that. neither is memphis and their mojos. their product quality has gone downhill in the last three years.

back to the OP, i think neil summed it up pretty good. and again, thanks for cleaning up my mess, lol.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Man I should have put this topic in the newsletter.

[Lord Baccus 1]

asking what impresses you in the sq realm is a bit of a joke LB...your experience is making noise, not music.

common Mon be nice...

i am trying to do something SQ... remember i am a Noob with Sq. so go easy on me ill get it there...

as for JL audio i think there product is crapp the leads break off @ the cone, and they sound like a wet fart

maybe 1 day ill comeacross a setup with JL that has been installed properlly ???

and can produce a clean note without blowing ?

as for SS not holding there ground ! iv put a lot of JL owners in a bad mood after they lisen to my subs and find out they got r@ped on the install & price for something that makes a buzing thuddd sound ???

im sure that there are competitors out there that make me look silly ! but keep in mind this is only my 2nd yr competing & iv got a pretty bigg target on my back...

everyone is out gunnin too beat lil ol Me...

ill get it figured out soon enuff..

thank you Murry for going easy on me

i am well aware im a piss@nt in the bigger pond

i just thought id chime in as he was asking for Opinions on subs , i just let him know what iv had experiance with...

[JimJ 11]

as for JL audio i think there product is crapp the leads break off @ the cone, and they sound like a wet fart

Once again, comparing manufacturers is useless, name a specific product, specific install you heard it in and we can talk specifics. Saying "JL Audio sucks" is completely ignorant when they have a product line as diverse as the W1 and the W6v2.

[Lord Baccus 1]

as for JL audio i think there product is crapp the leads break off @ the cone, and they sound like a wet fart

Once again, comparing manufacturers is useless, name a specific product, specific install you heard it in and we can talk specifics. Saying "JL Audio sucks" is completely ignorant when they have a product line as diverse as the W1 and the W6v2.

you make a good point

all i know is they open the trunk or back doors i see the JL badge on the cone and what im hearing is not worth the money they tell me they paid for that product...

i did go to an audio shop that sold JL and asked for a demo and was unimpressed...

[///M5 2,833]

Then your ears suck, there are some killer JL drivers

[Acidburn 10]

Then your ears suck, there are some killer JL drivers

ears and everything in between

[JimJ 11]

I'm just really curious at the level of the installers you've heard with JL, especially with the broken tinsels comment...

When I demo'ed the W6v2, even ported it showed no signs of stress.

Doesn't matter how expensive the product is, put it in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing, even WAVAC amps and Wilson Audio speakers won't make it sound good.

[todd.brust 29]

JL Audio's higher end product have never been a disappointment to me. I would have to say that the w6v2 is one of the best sounding subwoofers i have heard to date. Hand down. They are by no means an SPL monster, but they rank very highly for SQ in my book. Ported or seal, they sounded great either way. The w7 is a good speaker but i wouldn't say much more than that except for the 8w7. From my experiences, the 8w7 sounds great and has good output for a driver of its size, but the 10 through 13 are nothing too special when compared to other "superwoofers" I've had and heard w7 installs and i would take my current Brahma over a w7. I have never been too impressed with the Ti series Rockford stuff or the Kick Square subs(unless you are talking numbers for the kickers, I saw a guy with 2 10" solo X's hit 153.7 car sealed at the dash in dBdrag) Back to JL again, they make good front stage speakers too. I can't believe Lord B when he says every JL product he has heard sounds like crap. Too much bass makes your ears go bad I always get copliments on how good my JL XR comps sound.

But to OP, there are just too many products, mainstream and underground, to compare to one another. The only way you will ever come to a solid conclusion is to try different products yourself and listen, listen very closely.

[mwoehr 1]

The problem is, your questions are very general and install specific

I know! That's why I'm asking for peoples' experiences...they will ALL be different. That's the point. However some of my questions are quite specific. I'm not looking for majic answers or problem solvers...is this not a forum? Is this not a place for discussion?

ill try and answer you..

i think i got your question figured out ?!?

i think if you buy Jl Audio it is a statis symbol = Tommy Hillfigure

i have yet to hear a JL W7 preform !!! they sound like a wet fart to me compaired to a Soundstream T4

accually now that i think about it i think every Jl sub i ever lisend to sounded Blowen !

the L7 from Kicker is a Monster @ SPL but lacks the musical feness... it fumbles notes when playing music

but people that buy this sub just want to hear there trunk buzzzzzzzz with the bass

nothing wrong with that...

as for RE i have the SX 15" in my truck as i type breaking it in & i think the SAZ3000d is going to Cook it ! i have BBQ sause ready ( Recone Kit - Pap Wmd2 )

as for Sub-culture subs Pap is my drug of choise, as they will build subs to what i request,

i.e. extra spiders, coil configurations & size, tencel leads that will handel 4k, Motors, etc etc etc

i have a MOAB 15" that deals with 3k all day without getting warm @ 36Hz

where as i requested this sub special built for SPL WMD-Spl 15"

notice the honeycomb cone and smaller motor with the 4k tencel leads... its a dragster compaired to the heaver coned & motored Bass Beast...

the SoundStream T4 is an all out work Horse, it will pull double duty

its a Bastard to beat in the lanes and will do Music with no missing notes...

i will have to say that these are My Opinions, and based on the Boxs the subs were installed in and what i was trying to achive that week...

now for the Memphis M3MojoMaxx 15" quad coil

music it cannot do... but Spl it does with no problem

where as the SoundStream XxX 15" dominates everything iv ever owned Music or Spl this thing is designed to Get Down !

iv nicknamed it "Tyson" as its an Ear bitting Bastard...

feel free to ask me questions

as you can see i build a lot of boxxs

Dude, I know there's stuff out there that's better than JL Audio, but JL also makes a quality product. You're just straight up hating. Every JL product I've heard or had sounded great. Even my old W4D4 12s sounded nice and clean and got decently loud. The W7s are very impressive drivers. However, I personally do not own a pair, I have an Icon 15 on the way. There are subs that I'de personally choose over JL but they do make great subs. I'de personally take a Treo SSX or RE XXX over a W7. Some mainstream that I feel really kick ass are the ID MAXX and Diamond Audio D9.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Jysoe

[mrray13 30]

wow, let's not make this a LB hate-fest. everyone's ears are different and sq is subjective. disagreeing is fine, but it is just his opinion.

again, i'll say this, as far as subs goes, teh w6 is far and away, IMHO, the best driver jl makes. ported, sealed, doesn't matter. they get loud, will play low and handle transitions with ease. however, at their pricepoint, when compared to some 'net brands, they are easily overpriced when compared to similiar subs, like the ICON.

that does bring up a good point, most internet subs are held in such high regard that they are usually compared to subs that mainstreme companies have in a different league. like the rl-p vs w7. to be honest, the rl-p isn't even soundsplinter's best sub, the rl-s is. but early on, before the rl-s and even i was guilty of this, teh rl-p would get compared to the w7. and it could hold it's own. but to be honest, that's not completely fair to either driver.

but again, even when one compares something like the LMS driven rl-s, it overshadows the jl woofers because of where it's from as much as it does from it's performance. i think having an unknown woofer is like having an exotic car. it just puts you in an whole other league and you save money to boot.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Lord Baccus 1]

Guys cool down !

im not on a soap box to hang JL audio.

i was just pointing out the facts...

i.e.

( LAST NIGHT )

guy comes into the shop with a bad sounding set of subs in a SEALED downfireing box in the back of an SUV

we flip the box over and what do i see ???

common take a guess ???

2x JL W3 12"

1 sub has a piece the surround blowen out

and the other had a broken tencel lead...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it was a Lousy 600watt mono block that killer them

all was custom installed

DAmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i did not have a camera or i with show you that JL =

you would not believe me but the guy was PISSED ! he bought it the day before...

as in they lasted 1 day...............

and he paid a pretty penny to have it all Professionaly installed Woooooooooooooooo

he was sick when i turned on my system and set off car alarms in the parking lot across the street... a 1/2 block away

yall sound like yall own stock in that JL Audio

i personally think attacking me is not going to prove your point.

JL = that is MY OPINION.

[///M5 2,833]

You really have to stop staying stupid things And Kent, this hasn't turned into a bash LB thread but it is a stop him from puking out his mouth about the original topic which he seems to know nothing about. Amazing shame since he installs things so often

So to clear things up, just because some retard blew a sub doesn't make the sub suck, it makes the retard that blew them suck.

You cannot blindly say that all JL sucks since you have seen a few bad installs. They do have some products I don't like; however, they also have some super products as well. Your statement is sort of like someone hating on Sundown since they bought an SD-1 and applied 3kW to it for a competition and it blew, and then you reacting and saying Sundown is like poop. Obviously you wouldn't do that, but the analogy holds true. Seeing a w1 or lower end JL not doing what you think it should says NOTHING about the rest of the product line. So keep your biased, useless, uneducated, misapplied opinions to yourself...it is a rather childish way of forming opinions

[DevilDriver 28]

All I'm saying is that anyone that thinks Soundstream in the last 5+ years is better than JL Audio needs to have their head examined. They are free to have their own opinion; just realize it will be considered insane.

[Lord Baccus 1]

so let me get this stright, make sure i understand correctlly

my Opinion is based on the FACT that EVERY sub iv seen and lisend to made by JL

was Blown or broken. not 1 was funcutioning

somehow makes me the village idiot,

and every installer & shop in the Dallas / Ft Worth area

that sales JL audio Incompetent morons

Granted i have never seen or lisen to the W6

but as a rule of thumb your suggesting that the SS T4 subs

that i Pounded on Dailly for 3 yrs, in the lanes & for Daily

are somehow inferior to a product that iv not been

fortunate enuff to hear in a working state...

well for the sake of argument ill Concede !

your right im insane for thinking a product should work for more than a day

be just a lil more durable, so well lump it under SQ and hide the fact that it

can not preform with more than a 100watts...

yall win.

ill just agree with yall

Edited March 18, 2008 by Lord Baccus

[///M5 2,833]

You didn't even read my post