subwoofer comparison

[Lord Baccus 1]

You didn't even read my post

i did read your post..

i give up yall win.

im not going to try and argue with you.

im sure somewhere out there that someone has 1 of those subs and it sounds great to them.

all i was pointing out is i have never been so fortunate as to hear it for myself.

please stop with the personal attacks !

i dont call you names or make rude statements about your opinion.

it does not prove your point.

[mccleery3 166]

Man, the OP sure did get a lot more than expected I'll bet!!! BTW, I own JL's (no I didn't pay the sugg. retail $$) & no other reason than getting louder am I looking to change. I've had them for 2+ yrs. off the JL 1000/1 in a ported box built to spec. with NO problems. Anyone I have let hear them has given compliments for overall sound and ability to get fairly loud. Not bashing you LB, just giving my 2 cents.

[JimJ 11]

Guys cool down !

im not on a soap box to hang JL audio.

i was just pointing out the facts...

i.e.

( LAST NIGHT )

guy comes into the shop with a bad sounding set of subs in a SEALED downfireing box in the back of an SUV

we flip the box over and what do i see ???

common take a guess ???

2x JL W3 12"

1 sub has a piece the surround blowen out

and the other had a broken tencel lead...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it was a Lousy 600watt mono block that killer them

all was custom installed

DAmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i did not have a camera or i with show you that JL =

you would not believe me but the guy was PISSED ! he bought it the day before...

as in they lasted 1 day...............

and he paid a pretty penny to have it all Professionaly installed Woooooooooooooooo

he was sick when i turned on my system and set off car alarms in the parking lot across the street... a 1/2 block away

yall sound like yall own stock in that JL Audio

i personally think attacking me is not going to prove your point.

JL = that is MY OPINION.

There's so much wrong with that post it'd take a thread of its own to properly address it...

[nstaln 0]

I used to work at a shop that carried JL products. I wasn't overly impressed with them. The W7 got loud but lacked the SQ I like. The W6 sounded great but didn't get all thet loud. The W3 line impressed me the most as it had a lower price point and got pretty loud and sounded good as well. However they all seemed a bit overpriced for what you got. Overall I think they are a good company and DO have quality products, I just feel for the money you can purchase better products that yeild all-around better results. By the way Elemental Designs has just released a new line of subwoofers including a couple underhung designs...I wonder if they can rebuild subs from my Audiomobile motors! I see there is a little hostility abound in this forum, the point of me posting this topic to begin with was for people to speak of their personal experieces and interject there opinions based on that. That being said I welcome all of the banter that has ensued, however we should try to be nice to eachother even if we don't agree. Anyways thank you for all of the responses, keep 'em coming!

[Lord Baccus 1]

I used to work at a shop that carried JL products. I wasn't overly impressed with them. The W7 got loud but lacked the SQ I like. The W6 sounded great but didn't get all thet loud. The W3 line impressed me the most as it had a lower price point and got pretty loud and sounded good as well. However they all seemed a bit overpriced for what you got. Overall I think they are a good company and DO have quality products, I just feel for the money you can purchase better products that yeild all-around better results. By the way Elemental Designs has just released a new line of subwoofers including a couple underhung designs...I wonder if they can rebuild subs from my Audiomobile motors! I see there is a little hostility abound in this forum, the point of me posting this topic to begin with was for people to speak of their personal experieces and interject there opinions based on that. That being said I welcome all of the banter that has ensued, however we should try to be nice to eachother even if we don't agree. Anyways thank you for all of the responses, keep 'em coming!

OMG that is what i said that got my theeth kicked in... well sorta of anyway, well that is what i was trying to say anyway...

[jonbearsmt 919]

ill say that i used Jl for about 6 years... and i was let down offten..w1...w3....w6... w7.. yeah time i upgreaded... each time i was let down.... take it as you will. im not going to read this thread anylonger.

[DevilDriver 28]

3 Simple Questions

1. What caused failure in these drivers? Was it thermal or mechanical? Or is it simply a case of poor glue joints?

2. If every JL Audio speaker you have listened to was "blown or broken", wouldn't that explain why they sounded poor?

3. Why does your experience differ from most?

Bonus Question

You mentioned all the JL Audio subwoofers you've listened to sounded like a wet fart. Putting the legitimacy of this statement aside, what is the cause of this sound?

[Lord Baccus 1]

3 Simple Questions

1. What caused failure in these drivers? Was it thermal or mechanical? Or is it simply a case of poor glue joints?

answer: poor craftsmanship, cheaply made parts, bad assembly

2. If every JL Audio speaker you have listened to was "blown or broken", wouldn't that explain why they sounded poor?

answer: poor craftsmanship, cheaply made parts, bad assembly, bad box choice, user error ? you pick

3. Why does your experience differ from most?

answer: cant say most of the people i have met with JL subs were Happy with their purchase.

a few here seem to agree with me, including shop owners, as well as the shop owner where i help on the weekends ! he wants to drop the JL product cuss they REFUSE to warranty anything for any reason. he has a few items that he cannot unload cuss the word has gotten out that when it blows your SOL

Bonus Question

You mentioned all the JL Audio sub woofers you've listened to sounded like a wet fart. Putting the legitimacy of this statement aside, what is the cause of this sound?

answer: i would say people believe the hype and buy these sub thinking they are getting a Superior product when in fact they are bottom of the food chain !

they are lil more than status symbols for people that want to brag that they own the Tommy hilfiger of subs. then trying to save face they claim there SQ subs and thats why they cant handle powerful amps

the W7 was a Floop & the W6 was an attempt to correct the mistakes made in the W7

as for the lower end JL subs they are just that

as stated in the previous post, i will just agree that i am wrong, and somewhere in the Universe someone got a JL sub that works & sounds good.

[DevilDriver 28]

1. If you believe that JL Audio has poor craftsmanship, cheaply made parts, and bad assembly, you are clueless with respect to real speaker engineering and building.

2. You didn't answer my question. You just repeated what you said in question 1.

3. JL Audio is a world renowned company in almost every circle, including circles of people who know what they are talking about. I have met way more people who are satisfied with JL Audio than people who are dissatisfied.

Bonus - Again, I ask: if all JL Audio subs sound like a wet fart, what is the cause of that sound? I'm not asking why people buy them...I'm asking why they sound so terrible...what causes this sound?

[NB50 206]

Bonus - Again, I ask: if all JL Audio subs sound like a wet fart, what is the cause of that sound? I'm not asking why people buy them...I'm asking why they sound so terrible...what causes this sound?

What is the INSTALL ??

[helotaxi 46]

I've noticed that a lot of morons buy JL thinking that they are loud and are disappointed when they are not. Part of this misconception stems from the reputation of JL for making a great product and morons associating only "LOUD" with great sub. The other part is the shops that carry JL are staffed with morons who push JL as the answer for every subwoofer need. People who see SPL as the only merit of performance for a sub are always the first ones jumping on JL for being "overpriced" or "crap" or the such.

On the SQ side, I don't think that I've really heard much ever in the way of negatives about JL subs from people who use their systems to listen to actual music at sane levels. Most use the W7 and W6v2 as their standard of reference when talking about other subs. Must be that wet fart sound that emmulates the bottom registers of the cello so well.

Most of the folks out to create a realistic sound in their car like JL or say something to the effect of "I couldn't afford the W6 that I wanted and settled for X instead, it sounds almost as good."

My take on the original question posed, and I by no means have used a lot of different brands of equipment...I haven't seen much in the way of innovation on the SQ front from anyone but JL in a very long time on the mainstream side of things. The W7 was a quantum leap and the W6v2 reaped some of the design benefits of that leap. Pretty much all of the other mainstream players have gone the route of focusing on SPL either in a "bang for the buck" loud budget sub for the daily beater who wants attention or the balls to the wall powersink for the SPL competitor. They seem to be of the opinion that if you aren't after loud then we don't care. I can kind of see where they're coming from since the majority of the idiot kids out there just want some loud subs they cater to the mass of the market. That leaves those of us wanting quality over quantity looking for niche products and audio is no different from other products in that you find your niche products on-line. Since most of the online brands are smallish operations they can focus on the SQ customer, if that is the niche they choose, and build a product that doesn't have to have mass appeal to be considered successful from a sales perspective.

I've been using JL subs for a LONG time. I got my first for Christmas in '91. That was the first year of the original W1 series. It was a great sub back then and it's still a very good sub from an SQ POV. I still have it and it still works as new and looks almost mint. I ran the crap out of 6 of the original 10w6s for the better part of a year before the vehicle they were installed in died in a rather nasty wreck. Two of those became the first subs I ever killed when the sub amp came loose in the wreck and punched holes in the cones. I sent 3 of them in for recone after the surrounds rotted out during nearly 6 years in storage and I still have them, too.

I made the jump to online brand subs about 4 years ago when I bought a XXX. I will probably never part with that sub. It's heavy and the ported boxes I've used it in took up the whole of my trunk and weighed a TON but I was never disappointed with the sound of that sub. I also have a quartet of the original version of the Ascendant Audio Assassin 8s. I've used two of them and I was very please with the sound of them and I know that it would have been impossible to top their performance for the price (try finding a mainstream sub for $45 with full warranty).

[zeero3 0]

First time poster, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH! But anyway. I've been a SUPER lurker on different forums for a while now and I like it here . I was the guy THIS CLOSE to putting a JLW7 in the H.O. box on credit card. I'm thinking it would've cost me about $750 for the 10" that is supposed to handle 500W. I have an oldie, but goodie, RF 800a2 amp so I didn't think about going for the 1000W RMS big stuff; forget it, I digress. Point is, I was ALMOST that guy in the Tommy "Hillfigure".

But there were two reasons as to why I strayed from the JL path: 1) I was scared I'd pay that much and not be impressed, ie have LB roll up and laugh at me and my empty wallet and all over my 10". and 2) I'd much rather be the guy w/ some subs that not many people have even HEARD about that sound good for a good price ....

I've been looking at subs and enclosures and this and that for about 2 months when I have the time. I've narrowed it down to the FI Q, SSA Icon, and new SI Magnum, all at 12". I'm looking for that "one perfect sub" for my little 96 LeSabre that actually SOUNDS great. I'm not the SPL guy, but if it got loud, then that's ALRIGHT! (If I can get to the mid-130 dBs w/ the new sealed SI Mag I'm not looking anymore!!!)

To Lord Baccus, I'm a newb to this forum so I will try to not step on your toes AT ALL HERE. It sounds to me like you have to deal with JL heads day-in and day-out. For the most part they don't know WHAT they're talking about and/or their installs are booboo. They pledge allegiance to JL just because it's JL! And you're probably tired of spinning your wheels trying to explain to them that there is better stuff out there, AND THERE IS! But JL can't be THAT bad. I've personally heard some really good W0s! I don't necessarily think it's JL that sucks as much as the know-how of the people selling JL. Hey, JL can sound good and I hope you get to hear a working, properly set-up pair of W6s or W7s one day, but personally I'd rather be the guy popping the trunk showing something different and teaching the JL heads a thing or two......

This forum is sweet by the way!

[Lord Baccus 1]

1. If you believe that JL Audio has poor craftsmanship, cheaply made parts, and bad assembly, you are clueless with respect to real speaker engineering and building.

answer: if EVERY JL sub iv seen is blowen / then yes it leads one to think there product is defective.

2. You didn't answer my question. You just repeated what you said in question 1.

Answer: is directly related to question 1, but i dont think that the subs i lisen to @ an Audio shop in boxs designed for the sub in question sounded all that good ! lacked bass responce, and had poor sound quality, might be due to room conditions - poor box construction, ovrepowering it? song choice, etc etc etc.

3. JL Audio is a world renowned company in almost every circle, including circles of people who know what they are talking about. I have met way more people who are satisfied with JL Audio than people who are dissatisfied.

Answer: if i got sucked in for that kind of money i think the brain would fool me into believing it sounded good so i dident go into a panic attack, thinking i could have gotten some Killer subs from any number of SUB CULTURE sub makers, ie. ( FI, SSA, RE, Ascientant, Pap ) just to name a few

Bonus - Again, I ask: if all JL Audio subs sound like a wet fart, what is the cause of that sound? I'm not asking why people buy them...I'm asking why they sound so terrible...what causes this sound?

poor quality product.

remember these are my opnions based on what i have had experiance with.

i understand you seen a few more installs and im sure whoever built them took great care to make sure it was perfect.

sorry my oppinion seems to piss you off.

why dont you offer me an address in the Dallas / Ft Worth TX area where i can go and see a properlly installed JL sub ?

Bro you know i all ready gave in way keep kicking a dead dog?

[Lord Baccus 1]

I've noticed that a lot of morons buy JL thinking that they are loud and are disappointed when they are not. Part of this misconception stems from the reputation of JL for making a great product and morons associating only "LOUD" with great sub. The other part is the shops that carry JL are staffed with morons who push JL as the answer for every subwoofer need. People who see SPL as the only merit of performance for a sub are always the first ones jumping on JL for being "overpriced" or "crap" or the such.

On the SQ side, I don't think that I've really heard much ever in the way of negatives about JL subs from people who use their systems to listen to actual music at sane levels. Most use the W7 and W6v2 as their standard of reference when talking about other subs. Must be that wet fart sound that emmulates the bottom registers of the cello so well.

Most of the folks out to create a realistic sound in their car like JL or say something to the effect of "I couldn't afford the W6 that I wanted and settled for X instead, it sounds almost as good."

My take on the original question posed, and I by no means have used a lot of different brands of equipment...I haven't seen much in the way of innovation on the SQ front from anyone but JL in a very long time on the mainstream side of things. The W7 was a quantum leap and the W6v2 reaped some of the design benefits of that leap. Pretty much all of the other mainstream players have gone the route of focusing on SPL either in a "bang for the buck" loud budget sub for the daily beater who wants attention or the balls to the wall powersink for the SPL competitor. They seem to be of the opinion that if you aren't after loud then we don't care. I can kind of see where they're coming from since the majority of the idiot kids out there just want some loud subs they cater to the mass of the market. That leaves those of us wanting quality over quantity looking for niche products and audio is no different from other products in that you find your niche products on-line. Since most of the online brands are smallish operations they can focus on the SQ customer, if that is the niche they choose, and build a product that doesn't have to have mass appeal to be considered successful from a sales perspective.

I've been using JL subs for a LONG time. I got my first for Christmas in '91. That was the first year of the original W1 series. It was a great sub back then and it's still a very good sub from an SQ POV. I still have it and it still works as new and looks almost mint. I ran the crap out of 6 of the original 10w6s for the better part of a year before the vehicle they were installed in died in a rather nasty wreck. Two of those became the first subs I ever killed when the sub amp came loose in the wreck and punched holes in the cones. I sent 3 of them in for recone after the surrounds rotted out during nearly 6 years in storage and I still have them, too.

I made the jump to online brand subs about 4 years ago when I bought a XXX. I will probably never part with that sub. It's heavy and the ported boxes I've used it in took up the whole of my trunk and weighed a TON but I was never disappointed with the sound of that sub. I also have a quartet of the original version of the Ascendant Audio Assassin 8s. I've used two of them and I was very please with the sound of them and I know that it would have been impossible to top their performance for the price (try finding a mainstream sub for $45 with full warranty).

First time poster, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH! But anyway. I've been a SUPER lurker on different forums for a while now and I like it here . I was the guy THIS CLOSE to putting a JLW7 in the H.O. box on credit card. I'm thinking it would've cost me about $750 for the 10" that is supposed to handle 500W. I have an oldie, but goodie, RF 800a2 amp so I didn't think about going for the 1000W RMS big stuff; forget it, I digress. Point is, I was ALMOST that guy in the Tommy "Hillfigure".

But there were two reasons as to why I strayed from the JL path: 1) I was scared I'd pay that much and not be impressed, ie have LB roll up and laugh at me and my empty wallet and all over my 10". and 2) I'd much rather be the guy w/ some subs that not many people have even HEARD about that sound good for a good price ....

I've been looking at subs and enclosures and this and that for about 2 months when I have the time. I've narrowed it down to the FI Q, SSA Icon, and new SI Magnum, all at 12". I'm looking for that "one perfect sub" for my little 96 LeSabre that actually SOUNDS great. I'm not the SPL guy, but if it got loud, then that's ALRIGHT! (If I can get to the mid-130 dBs w/ the new sealed SI Mag I'm not looking anymore!!!)

To Lord Baccus, I'm a newb to this forum so I will try to not step on your toes AT ALL HERE. It sounds to me like you have to deal with JL heads day-in and day-out. For the most part they don't know WHAT they're talking about and/or their installs are booboo. They pledge allegiance to JL just because it's JL! And you're probably tired of spinning your wheels trying to explain to them that there is better stuff out there, AND THERE IS! But JL can't be THAT bad. I've personally heard some really good W0s! I don't necessarily think it's JL that sucks as much as the know-how of the people selling JL. Hey, JL can sound good and I hope you get to hear a working, properly set-up pair of W6s or W7s one day, but personally I'd rather be the guy popping the trunk showing something different and teaching the JL heads a thing or two......

This forum is sweet by the way!

Thank you...

i wish i could express myself the way you guys do

you are correct !!! in every aspect.

im sorry and do offer appolligys to anyone and everyone that was offended by my statements about JL...

[Adrian_D 520]

I think the only problem with your statements about JL is the fact that you listened to them when they were either damaged or very poorly installed.

I listened to a pair of 4.5" DLS's installed incorrectly and wasn't impressed at all. Boy did that chance when after an afternoon of work on the doors.

Ever had the pleasure of listening to one of the drivers you considered better in the conditions you listened to the JL's ?

Can't blame the company for the quality of the installers or the way people use their gear.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Bonus question answer > > Bud Light.

[DevilDriver 28]

Thank you...

i wish i could express myself the way you guys do

you are correct !!! in every aspect.

im sorry and do offer appolligys to anyone and everyone that was offended by my statements about JL...

Dude! They said nothing like you've been saying. They said that JL Audio makes good quality equipment but that they could get something as good at a lower price. You said JL Audio is garbage, everything they make breaks, and that everything they make sounds like a wet fart.

I asked what makes them sound like a wet fart...you said poor quality product. Can you specify? What specifically causes this sound, in terms of part selection, geometry, etc?

[JimJ 11]

then trying to save face they claim there SQ subs and thats why they cant handle powerful amps

Now that's truly hilarious.

I guess that's why my Fostex Sigs sound like ass, send them power over 25 watts and they blow, pfft, what was I thinking

[JimJ 11]

Must be that wet fart sound that emmulates the bottom registers of the cello so well.

But what if the cellist farted on the recording? What then?

[Lord Baccus 1]

Bro please give it a rest...

if you like it - I LOVE IT...

there are other things i dislike as well.

Nike shoes

brussell sprouts

hamburgers cooked med rare

dress shoes with tassells

sushi / or anything that is Fish

Tommy Hilfiger

pink shirts on Men

religious fanatics

1000 Island dressing

cold weather

chevy trucks

organic labled food

beer / i get really sick

movies with Patric Swazie or Tom Hanks or Jim Carie

CSI the tv show

Talk shows other than Jerry Springer

fancy restaurents

2nd hand cigerett smoke

is it posaiable i am just unforutnate enuff to have never come across a properlly installed JL sub ?

and based my oppinion on my experance!

lets get back to the subject please

Edited March 19, 2008 by Lord Baccus

[tejcurrent 13]

I live in a smallish town with 3 audio shops, a Circuit City, and a Best Buy. I have seen good things come from all 5 places, but I have also seen some terrible terrible work. None of the shops have a TL or O-scope, and I know for a fact 1 of them doesn't have a DMM. The one without the DMM I have only visited once and that was enough. They showed me a near $2000 front stage installed in a new Yukon Denalli, and I was soo soo dissapointed. Guess what brand it was?

JL. Now this does not mean that the equipment was at fault- but something was very very wrong there.

A guy I know has 2 JL w6 15s, and they sounded great sealed when he first got them. Then he decided to build his own ported box after asking for my help. I drew him some diagrams and a cut sheet, and for some reason, without any build experience, he decided he would wipe his figurative ass with the box plans I made for him and do it totally different (and I mean REALLY REALLY WRONG). Needless to say his subs sounded terrible until he blew one of them, and then they sounded worse.

I have never been impressed with the W7 in terms of SPL or SQ, but Maybe the install was incorrect, I simply don't know. One vehicle had a very nice clean and well thought out install, but his W7 on jl 1000/1 sounded mediocre and wasn't loud at all.

I was walking into a local pawn shop (a great place to find hard to find singles and b-sides btw) and saw 2 guys carrying a box with 2 JL 12s. I asked, "what model subs are those?", with a reply, "I dunno, they're JL!". Like that was all you needed to know. It's this love and mentallity that just because they're expensive they're good that kept me from ever buying a JL product.

There are other brands I feel the same towards, but it's not that the company makes bad products, just peoples attitude towards them.

Around where I live Memphis is the big thing, and it makes me wish I had never bought Memphis amps.

I don't know how to say this clearly, so I hope it comes out right. Lots of people think they know how to install their own equipment, and really only learned how to do so because they wanted to save money. Well where's the first place to look for some tips and tricks? The internet. This is also where a lot of people hear about these "underground" companies, and decide from reviews that they can save themselves money by buying something other than what they can get locally. Since most subs are thrown in a pre-fab box at a local shop anyway, even a half-asted box built at home can be equal to or better than what they'd most likely settle for at a store.

I own an alpine type-x I installed in my wifes car, and it is a nice SQ sub. I'm giving it around 1000wrms it calls for from a Hifonics 2006d (which since no one has ever carried them around here makes it an underground brand to everyone local). No one carries the type-x around here and I wanted to see what it was like. Also people think spending over 150 a sub is too much, regardless of quailty

While the amp isnt' the best in any one feature, it does have a really nice price point (<300 new), so it worked great for my needs and saved some money. The type-x I wish I hadn't bought some 3+ years ago, but it still works flawlessly and does it's job. It sounds wonderful to me in a sealed box, but because SPL is a bit more important to me I went with a daily tuned ported one instead. It still sounds good, but it loses some of it's sq ported. Knowing what I do now I would buy a Q because it would still sound good ported, and would cost less while maybe gaining me a bit on the SPL side.

There are several reasons why I am using an "underground company" in my vehicle as the OP said (I have Fi BTL 18s).

* Price - The only comparable sub offered from any local shops would be the Kicker solo-X, and at close to 1/2 the price I've been quoted makes it an obvious choice in this catagory.

* Availability- NO ONE keeps "super subs" in stock where I live, so there would still be a 2+ week wait time on ordering. If I have to wait, I'd rather order something myself and have it delivered to my door instead of paying some guy to make money off me having it delivered to his shop.

* Customer service- smaller internet based companies can offer a level of customer service you'd never see from a giant one. I've spoken through email to the actual men behind designing the equipment at Fi and Sundown- what mainstream brand could ever do that with every person who emails them? Not saying Im special, I'm saying it gives the impression of caring on a personal level.

* Exotic factor- Since no one has seen it before, while they often assume it's flee-market junk, it also gives the appeal of people being astounded something other than what they know could be louder or sound good.

* Quality- When a company has established itself and has good reviews, you can trust online reviews of an online product as well as any online reviews of a mainstream product. Since most people who spend the time to research "underground" brands often have a slightly higher level of understanding than people who pay someone else to pick their equipment out and install it for them- they give more insightful reviews. Not always true, but somewhat.

It is a very vague question so I hope my really vague, round-about answer(s) help some.

Edited March 19, 2008 by tejcurrent

[DevilDriver 28]

That is completely possible. That doesn't, however, mean that they sound like a wet fart...it means you heard an install that sounds like a wet fart.

This hass been the whole point I have been trying to make for a few posts now...maybe you're hearing a sound you enjoy, but I doubt you know what the cause of this sound is...and thus, drawing a correlation between what you hear and what is used to make the sound is not something that you (or many people) should make.

There are extremely few people that can honestly sit in a vehicle and compare products one on one because they just don't understand what makes one end result different than the other. I think I'm close but I'm not there yet....

edit: I will use the "hamburgers cooked medium rare" part you mentioned, since it also relies on an interpretation or use of the senses.

Let's say I pass you a plate with a hamburger on it. The hamburger meat has had various non-visible additives included. All you've got to go by is taste. Let's say you don't enjoy the taste of this hamburger...is it the meat at fault? Maybe it's one of the additives...but which one? How do you know? Can you draw a direct conclusion on the meat's quality based on the taste if you don't even know what differentiates the taste of one hamburger from another?

If I served you 10 hamburgers (5 of which were cooked medium rare) with a blindfold on (and all hamburgers sitting at the same ambient temperature), would you be able to pick out which ones were cooked medium rare every single time? What if they all had different spices and additives?

I'm getting too hypothetical now (probably throwing myself on my own sword), but the point has been made.

[Lord Baccus 1]

I think the only problem with your statements about JL is the fact that you listened to them when they were either damaged or very poorly installed.

I listened to a pair of 4.5" DLS's installed incorrectly and wasn't impressed at all. Boy did that chance when after an afternoon of work on the doors.

Ever had the pleasure of listening to one of the drivers you considered better in the conditions you listened to the JL's ?

Can't blame the company for the quality of the installers or the way people use their gear.

you right i agree i might have a very slanted view becuse i havent had the chance to hear them properlly installed

[DevilDriver 28]

For the record...JL Audio's price comes from their performance. In engineering circles, they are highly respected by almost everyone and, for the most part, well ahead of their time. So there is some justification of price.

Funny thing about a W7 in a car....most times, you are best off EQ'ing the low end response down before you start getting frustrated with how it sounds.

Has anyone here who dislikes the sound of a W7 heard one in a home?

[tejcurrent 13]

That is completely possible. That doesn't, however, mean that they sound like a wet fart...it means you heard an install that sounds like a wet fart.

This hass been the whole point I have been trying to make for a few posts now...maybe you're hearing a sound you enjoy, but I doubt you know what the cause of this sound is...and thus, drawing a correlation between what you hear and what is used to make the sound is not something that you (or many people) should make.

There are extremely few people that can honestly sit in a vehicle and compare products one on one because they just don't understand what makes one end result different than the other. I think I'm close but I'm not there yet....

edit: I will use the "hamburgers cooked medium rare" part you mentioned, since it also relies on an interpretation or use of the senses.

Let's say I pass you a plate with a hamburger on it. The hamburger meat has had various non-visible additives included. All you've got to go by is taste. Let's say you don't enjoy the taste of this hamburger...is it the meat at fault? Maybe it's one of the additives...but which one? How do you know? Can you draw a direct conclusion on the meat's quality based on the taste if you don't even know what differentiates the taste of one hamburger from another?

I agree with you, and see your point 100%. There are only a handful of people on this forum, and not a whole lot in general who could give a real break down of what makes driver X sound Z (louder, clearer, etc) over driver A. I am not one of them, but I think the OP was really looking for a more general response and just light conversation. I coud be wrong thats the thinking my response is based on.

*edit I haven't had a chance to hear the W7 in a home, is it that big a difference? Just asking because I was considering doing a Q15 or 18 tuned around 15-20hz in my h/t setup.

Edited March 19, 2008 by tejcurrent