i hate these stupid WTB threads

[rugdnit 1]

guys

as i mentioned in a few other threads i am a sales rep and i spend ALOT of time in the car. after debating for hours what would be best-- build a killer small sub box ( RLi8 or like with a PR to keep it small ) or redo my doors one of our resident experts here hit the nail on the head " why would you spend so much time or money on a sub? it reproduces about 15% of your sound ". it really hit home. i deadened my doors with Raamat, but did not do the closed cell foam on either skin of the door. when it warms up i want to make sure i do the closed cell foam ( is it better to line the inside of the door or between the panel trim and outer skin? ). i bought the egg crate foam to do behind the speaker ( i have some KILLER waterproofing product that i have with one of the lines i rep ). i want to make sure i build a better baffle this time around as well. i bought some Damplifier Pro from Ant to deaden and help seal up the doors better. currently i am working with a set of CDT ES06 HD drivers. they seem very capable, but could definitely use better door prep as these things really jump. these drivers have a larger voice coil so they are much warmer than other 6-6.75 drivers i have had in the past. they are great for cranking out the midbass. but from there things fall off. i have have the CDT 560 crossovers with titanium dome CDT tweets. these tweets are just BRUTAL. they make my ears burn and make for the worst listener fatigue of any system i have built. i have a 06' Forester XT so speaker location selection is not good. i have the tweets in the upper door pods with the -3 db attenuation and they are still brutal. i am looking at going active so i can fine tune my tweets better as well as midbass. i am looking at two options here--

1. Buy some Seas Neos and run them active with the CDT ES06 HDs.

2. Buy some Rainbow Germs and try active or the Bi Amp off of the xover.

i am torn since option 2 is more money and for the extra money will i be that much happier. i have also toyed with the idea of building some pods and going 3 way. i have a stash of different drivers in my garage ( musicians call this GAS i believe..... and yes.... i have GAS ). i have two sets of old school Orion MB8s that i will probably never use, but i was thinking of doing a kickpanel with either tweet in them and an old school Orion XTR Pro ( really its an NT before they officially launched the NT line ) 5.25 Carbon Fiber Cone for 80-100 Hz on up with a passive and then either the CDT or Germs in the door for strictly midbass. i respect the opinions here since we have people here that know SQ. what it comes down to is do the Seas Neos or Rainbow Germs? thoughts???

[johnecon2001 82]

Seas Neo gets my vote. Although, when you run active with the proper processing, you could probably make the CDT tweets less harsh with some Basic EQ.

[rugdnit 1]

Seas Neo gets my vote. Although, when you run active with the proper processing, you could probably make the CDT tweets less harsh with some Basic EQ.

i have an EQX but due to it being 2 channel and the lack of variable crossover frequency i would rather avoid it. i am also not a fan of the EQ on the Z1. that is another area to address, but the speakers are first. what about the closed cell foam on the door? outside skin or inside? i am torn on the GERMS because i have read so many great things about the tweeter.

[flakko 1]

seas neo's are sex +1 on them

[johnecon2001 82]

Generally Closed cell foam goes on the door itself over the butyl/aluminum deadener.

[rugdnit 1]

so over 100 people have read this and 2 guys have an opinion on this? c'mon guys!

[///M5 2,833]

I personally wouldn't do either selection. If you have the propensity and possibility of doing a real active setup, I would suggest replacing all your drivers but there is no way I'd pay for the Germs.

Before blindly recommending anything it would surely help to know your listening preferences, mounting locations (and limitations, ie does a large format tweet fit?), potential power, processing capability, and so on. The Neo is a nice driver, but might not be the right one for you although it isn't "harsh" so at least that part works for you.

[rugdnit 1]

I personally wouldn't do either selection. If you have the propensity and possibility of doing a real active setup, I would suggest replacing all your drivers but there is no way I'd pay for the Germs.

Before blindly recommending anything it would surely help to know your listening preferences, mounting locations (and limitations, ie does a large format tweet fit?), potential power, processing capability, and so on. The Neo is a nice driver, but might not be the right one for you although it isn't "harsh" so at least that part works for you.

i was waiting for you to chime in! midbass is important since it gives vocals and guitars some ballz and makes the snare pop. i also like hearing the detail in the bass guitar.

Listening Pref: Classic Rock, New School Rock and limited hiphopannonymous

Mounting Locations: Subaru Forester XT 06- crappy door location for mid and mirror pillar. looking at doing kicks

Potential Power: AXTU4360 75x4 at 4ohms or 90x4 at 2ohms or 180x2 bridged

Processing : Avic Z1 ( not a fan of the eq ) and an AC EQX ( dont like the lack of variable xover points and only 2 ch in )

anything else? thanx!

Edited February 25, 2008 by rugdnit

[///M5 2,833]

Hey, I was out of town snowmobiling all weekend.

With only an EQX you are going to need to focus on your mounting locations. (I know nothing of Sub'ies interiors...).

What is the door mount location like, are you willing to do the kicks, mounting depth in both locations? (IIRC you only have 2 and something inches of depth for the mid, but maybe that is in other Subaru's).

Also, if you had to trade midrange clarity and accuracy for midbass, or vice versa which would you choose?

Budget?

[rugdnit 1]

Hey, I was out of town snowmobiling all weekend.

With only an EQX you are going to need to focus on your mounting locations. (I know nothing of Sub'ies interiors...).

What is the door mount location like, are you willing to do the kicks, mounting depth in both locations? (IIRC you only have 2 and something inches of depth for the mid, but maybe that is in other Subaru's).

Also, if you had to trade midrange clarity and accuracy for midbass, or vice versa which would you choose?

Budget?

ahh.. sledz.... good times!

i would rather get something else than use the EQX. i can find space anywhere- i currently have an amp rack in the spare tire well for my US AMPS. i have the CDT ES06 Golds in the doors already, but i know they need a better baffle for sure. i have the Orion XTR 5.25s Carbons i could use in a kick. i was thinking of getting the Coustic XM6- i would be able to do a bandpass for the midbass and then do the XTRs and tweet with a passive in the kick off the highpass. i know that the trade off is accurate midrange or midbass but never both from the same driver and that it is best to have dedicated midbass drivers. i am not too concerned about budget, but it's always nice to keep the cost down.

[///M5 2,833]

How about 3 way? Too complex? Opposed to a real processor like an H701? If you haven't ever done an active 2 way, I'd start there but you could buy your stuff so you can grow.

[rugdnit 1]

How about 3 way? Too complex? Opposed to a real processor like an H701? If you haven't ever done an active 2 way, I'd start there but you could buy your stuff so you can grow.

i have no problem doing 3 way. i was running active back in High School and have always preferred it. i have read lots about the h701, but was hoping to keep it pretty simple.... that is why i was thinking the Coustic XM6

Sub 50-60Hz Fi SSD12 CC

Midbass 50-250Hz CDT ES06 Gold in doors

Mid/Tweet 100 Hz up Orion XTR Carbon 5.25/Neos with either CDT560 or Focal Xover in kicks

[///M5 2,833]

IMO there is a huge disadvantage running active with just a simple crossover. An electronic processor is a huge benefit, nearly necessary if you ask me in particular for a 3 way setup. The H701 is a bit overkill for a simple 2 way though as you don't need all that processing, but considering you already have a headunit it is hard for me to recommend another processor that doesn't overlap what you already have. Of course a somewhat cheap, but unusual recommendation might be to run a separate headunit to be used as a crossover. You could take the outputs of your current one into a used 880prs, Eclipse, Alpine or another h/u that can do 2 way active. Not as clean as an offboard proc, but way more processing power than an XM6 and that you need.

I am also still very curious on your space limitations. In particular the door mount and wherever the optional places you had thought about mounting the tweeter.

[rugdnit 1]

IMO there is a huge disadvantage running active with just a simple crossover. An electronic processor is a huge benefit, nearly necessary if you ask me in particular for a 3 way setup. The H701 is a bit overkill for a simple 2 way though as you don't need all that processing, but considering you already have a headunit it is hard for me to recommend another processor that doesn't overlap what you already have. Of course a somewhat cheap, but unusual recommendation might be to run a separate headunit to be used as a crossover. You could take the outputs of your current one into a used 880prs, Eclipse, Alpine or another h/u that can do 2 way active. Not as clean as an offboard proc, but way more processing power than an XM6 and that you need.

I am also still very curious on your space limitations. In particular the door mount and wherever the optional places you had thought about mounting the tweeter.

in my doors i can most any 6-6.75 driver with up to 3" mounting depth. i had thought about putting the tweeter in a kick, or the A pillar.

the Z1 has on board crossovers ( LPH 50/80/125 and HPF 50/80/125 ) and a para eq. the H701 is nice, but sure seems like overkill.

[///M5 2,833]

Z1 does not have crossovers, those are "protection" cross points. Heck, those are hardly adequate for a sub

3" will severely limit what drivers you can use. Can you fit a large format in the a-pillar or just the kick?

[rugdnit 1]

Z1 does not have crossovers, those are "protection" cross points. Heck, those are hardly adequate for a sub

3" will severely limit what drivers you can use. Can you fit a large format in the a-pillar or just the kick?

you are correct on the Z1 ( like i said earlier... not a fan of the processing, but i need the GPS ). are there no good drivers that fit the bill ( 3" under ). large format tweeter would be a kick for sure.

[///M5 2,833]

For a 2 way, I really like a driver with some throw and pretty much they are deeper than 3"

As an aside the Alpine W205/B Bird will control the H701. Not that you want to start over though.

[rugdnit 1]

For a 2 way, I really like a driver with some throw and pretty much they are deeper than 3"

As an aside the Alpine W205/B Bird will control the H701. Not that you want to start over though.

well there is no way around it i need some processing. there are only really 3 options- DQXS, 3SIXTY.2 or H702. so far i am liking the RF 3SIXTY.2 since i can tune it from my Mac ( from what i have read they now offer Mac compatibility ). all i can do is work with what i do have and use some processing to tweak the sound i want. would i like to drop an 8 in the door or kick for midbass??? ummmm YEAH.... but its a subie.... i can overcome all the lesbian jokes in the world ( cant complain about my gas bill ), but an 8 in the door or kick in not feasible.

[///M5 2,833]

Depth is more my concern than diameter, how far can you kick it out?

[rugdnit 1]

i was thinking about trimming the grill and molded speaker area on the panel out and building a spacer that is contoured in such a way that the speaker would be mounted in place and when you put the door trim back on the speaker/baffle/spacer would stick through the cut out. of course this spacer/baffle would be trimmed in vinyl or carpet. this way depth would not be an issue and i would be able to aim them a little better. if you were familiar with the forester door trim it might make sense.

[rugdnit 1]

CORRECTION.....Mac is not yet compatible with the 3sixty.2 ......sucks.... i really like that unit.

[rugdnit 1]

ok... so i got the 3sixty on the way and i glassed the kicks today. i will get pics up of them when they are done.

[///M5 2,833]

You move quickly. Nice. Looking forward to pics.

[rugdnit 1]

okay... like a champ.... i took no pictures.... when i get going on this stuff i just dont stop and take pictures ( sorry guys ). i added Parallels to my MAC, so i can run Windows and control the 3sixty.2-- very nice piece of equipment. after about a month of listening to the CDT es-06 drivers ( the low QTS and all ) are not as good on the doors as i would like them to be. i took the extra time to make sure the doors were deadened and prepped properly. they really shine with vocals, drums, and guitars etc.... they really give the sound some grunt/beef. they fall a little short with bringing more bass depth forward. mounting depth is no more than 3 inches-- weak-- I KNOW! anybody have some good sources for a high QTS driver in the neighborhood of 6.75"???

[rugdnit 1]

Beyma SC-650???

Resonant frequency, fs 56hz

D.C. voice coil resistance, Re 3.6 ohms

Mechanical quality factor, Qms 2.26

Electrical quality factor, Qes 0.98

Total quality factor, Qts 0.68

Depth 2.64 inches

Xmax 3 mm

Freq Response 50-5000hz