SQ competitior out of a 08' F250

[Erotomania 0]

I'm more of an aspiring SPL guy, I don't know it all but I know a fair deal, regardless thats my personal focus.

SQ is pretty much new to me, but I've got a guy with a 250 wanting a competitive SQ car a local shop is wanting to charge him out the rear in labor, I'm pretty confident I could do whatever needed to his truck. I'm just curious where to go with it. It sits now with Focal K2P doors, Focal Access rears, Alpine 4.150PDX amp, 2x12" Pioneer slims behind the rear seats powered by a PDX 600.1 and a JL 10" woofer in the center console powered by a JL 250.1 amp processed through a Kenwood DNX7100.

He wants to move the K2P fronts to the rear and put focal utopia 3 ways in the doors.

Any resources you guys could dirrect me to as far as SQ build up techniques. Any component suggestions. Any help period would be great.

[///M5 2,833]

Too many drivers Focus on the install and not on the components. 3way passive is your enemy.

[Adrian_D 520]

Lots of door preparation, ditch the rears and lots of playing with possible locations

Take a peek at these projects for inspiration on door work :

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...showtopic=13344

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...?showtopic=7964

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...ic=6582&hl=

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...10337&st=30

[Erotomania 0]

Well, the problems thus far with the truck's system are:

-There is a noticeable empty sound in the center of the truck, You can tell that the passenger tweeter is far far away.

-DNX has no where near the processing abilities needed for a SQ system.

I'm thinking I'll put a alpine h701 w/ standalone controller in. He really really wants the utopia speakers up front. So no getting around that.

I'm thinking, woofers in the factor speaker location, mids up on the top corner of the door panel and tweeters in the stock window frame trim piece with a pair of additional tweeters set in the center of the dash aimed to the passenger and driver. That way you have 2 tweeters focused on either side of the driver and passenger to fill up that empty center effect.

The dynamatt was done very poorly on the doors, So I'll be doing some extensive redeadening on the doors, and about everywhere else. The Center console sounds great, though I'll be deadening the panels in some other area's to rid any extra vibration or rattles out.

Also going to run fresh speaker wire through the doors to the speakers as it is hijacking factory wires currently.

how does that sound for a start?

[johnecon2001 82]

You had me until you wanted to ad a second set of tweeters.

Also, how did no one catch the fact that the guy is running 3 subs? 2 12's and one 10? What the hell is that?

First things first.. You do need a better active processor... HOWEVER, you also need enough amp channels to run the front 3 way set active. Which means you need a processor that will run 3-way active. Ditch the passive crossover that came with the Focals, feed them individually and you should have enough coverage if you aim them properly. Adding more drivers is only going to add cancellation which is a negative approach from where you want to be.

Basically.. Rip it all out. The only thing you're keeping is the front components, and the Alpine PDX-4.150.

Then you're going to need either two more amps with 3 channels (one two channel amp and one monoblock) or one four channel amp that you can bridge two channels for a sub. Or one 3 channel amp like the DLS Ultimate A5.

How much space does he have behind the back seat for a subwoofer setup? You need to also deaden the snot out of the entire cab. Half of SQ is no rattles, no exterior noise.

You've got a long install a head of you bud.

[Erotomania 0]

So you are saying, just set up the 3ways in the front, the k2p's in the rear, rip out all the subs, and run the individual components to channel of their own on an amp.

Will the Alpine processor work with the 3 way set up?

There is really not much space behind the seats for woofers. The 2x12" premiers are about as much as you can fit. Maybe some of the JL W1V2's could fit back there.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Erotomania

[johnecon2001 82]

The alpine might work to just run the 3-ways, but you'd have no DSP or outputs left for the subs or the rear speakers. You should just run the Rears off of HU power.

Come to think of it.. What deck does he have now? You might be able to run the subs off of the HU sub preout and then the rears off of deck power. Then run the front RCA outputs to the Alpine.

Another fine option for digital crossovers is the Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY.2. I'd personally shoot for this as it will allow you to tune those three ways with more control.

[Erotomania 0]

He is running a Kenwood DNX7100, which has probably acceptable controls for subs but doesn't do enough to work with the door speakers.

Also what is the best speaker wire to be using to wire this all up? Thus far I use the monster 202 but I'm just curious if we are going to be using such high end components is this wire still good enough.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Erotomania

[johnecon2001 82]

He is running a Kenwood DNX7100, which has probably acceptable controls for subs but doesn't do enough to work with the door speakers.

Yeah that should be fine for subs.

The thing that's going to make the difference in this system compared to other systems is the ability to delay the front speakers correctly with the 3sixty.2.

Ideally, you'd like to delay each speaker in the component set together to blend with each other, then delay the whole front stage to the subs (you never delay the subs).

[Erotomania 0]

Do these things help? Just never seen them before.

How about a McIntosh MCC404M amp to run the front mid's and tweeters?

We would have 2 of the 404M's one for the fronts and one for the rears, in comp we'd turn the rears down if not off.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Erotomania

[johnecon2001 82]

You'd use one and a half of them for the fronts alone and two channels for the rears. And you still need an amp for the subs. If you're not going to be using the rears much... just run them off the Head unit. More than enough power for something he won't be using much.

[Erotomania 0]

Yeah...He wants 2, regardless of how important it is to have 2 or not there will be 2.

The subs can run off the PDX600.1 thats already in there.

[johnecon2001 82]

Looks like you're mostly set then.

Things you still need to decide on:

• Type of deadener
  
• How much deadener
  
• Type of subs (pioneer slims don't exactly scream SQ to me)
  
• Electrical upgrades (if any)
  
• Front speaker mounting locations
  

Overall, most SQ systems use single driver sub setups in sealed environments. Obviously, if he's interested in the McIntosh stuff, he's got some money to throw around. Time to start looking at DynAudio, Morel, Rainbow and other such brands for subs. Hell you could probably even go for a JL W6.

I don't personally have a whole lot of experience with higher end subwoofers though.

[Erotomania 0]

Looks like you're mostly set then.

Things you still need to decide on:

• Type of deadener
  
• How much deadener
  
• Type of subs (pioneer slims don't exactly scream SQ to me)
  
• Electrical upgrades (if any)
  
• Front speaker mounting locations
  

Overall, most SQ systems use single driver sub setups in sealed environments. Obviously, if he's interested in the McIntosh stuff, he's got some money to throw around. Time to start looking at DynAudio, Morel, Rainbow and other such brands for subs. Hell you could probably even go for a JL W6.

I don't personally have a whole lot of experience with higher end subwoofers though.

We'll be using second skin damplifier pro

atleast 2 layers everywhere

Morel 10" woofer is what we are tossing around now

No electrical upgrades

Woofers in doors, Mids on the dash, and tweeters on the A pillar

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Great choice on the sound deadening. Wish you picked the Icon for sub bass.

[Erotomania 0]

We haven't decided on the woofer so by all means sell me on one that'll work!

[Erotomania 0]

I just got my hands on the RF 360.2 and I've got to say its one of the coolest things I've ever seen. The guy has changed his mind and wants to build the SQ system in his new audi S5 So I'll be installing 3xMCC404M McIntosh amps utopia no.7 in the fronts K2P's in the rear 2x12" focal K2 woofers in the trunk with probably the Alpine PDX600.1 with a full layer or 2 of second skin damplifier pro and overkill.

Regardless, to those who've never messed around with the RF 360.2, if you like to really tune your system this thing is the ticket. I'm def. putting one in my car.

[johnecon2001 82]

I just got my hands on the RF 360.2 and I've got to say its one of the coolest things I've ever seen. The guy has changed his mind and wants to build the SQ system in his new audi S5 So I'll be installing 3xMCC404M McIntosh amps utopia no.7 in the fronts K2P's in the rear 2x12" focal K2 woofers in the trunk with probably the Alpine PDX600.1 with a full layer or 2 of second skin damplifier pro and overkill.

Regardless, to those who've never messed around with the RF 360.2, if you like to really tune your system this thing is the ticket. I'm def. putting one in my car.

Told ya you'd like it

[Erotomania 0]

I just got my hands on the RF 360.2 and I've got to say its one of the coolest things I've ever seen. The guy has changed his mind and wants to build the SQ system in his new audi S5 So I'll be installing 3xMCC404M McIntosh amps utopia no.7 in the fronts K2P's in the rear 2x12" focal K2 woofers in the trunk with probably the Alpine PDX600.1 with a full layer or 2 of second skin damplifier pro and overkill.

Regardless, to those who've never messed around with the RF 360.2, if you like to really tune your system this thing is the ticket. I'm def. putting one in my car.

Told ya you'd like it

Well, now that you got me drooling over it, tell me how to work it? What are some ball park crossover points for different speakers like mids tweeters and midbass woofers. I assume if I'm using this thing as a crossover I'll want to set each channel to a bandpass crossover.

I've heard its best to really keep the EQ as flat as possible with the utopias Which makes sense from what I've heard of high high end audio. I'm more concerned about them getting the right crossover ranges and time delays. The S5 should have far less imaging problems considering he has the hardcore audio package with factory 3 ways, woofers in doors mids in dash and tweeters in a pillars. I'll have a pretty easy task of just swapping speakers.

I've also briefly heard about building small enclosures for you mids. Is this worth a shot? like a small fiberglass sealed pod behind the speaker? This is stuff I've heard from the big man himself Mr biggs.

[johnecon2001 82]

A sealed or properly clayed Infinite Baffle enclosure will increase midbass response significantly.

As far as crossover points go, You'll need to see if you can find what Focal recommends for them. Start there and work your way up or down until the sound starts to blend. typically you get your Midbass gain set first with the crossover, then the midrange blended to that and finally the tweeter.

For Time alignment, you'll need a Time alignment tool (not sure if the 360 has one built in) you'll play a response out of the midbass, then the midrange and then the tweet, you'll then add delay to the midrange and the tweet to draw them back to the midbass. FINALLY, after all that, you'll delay the front comps back even further (as a whole) to the subs. Don't delay the subs, delay everything else to the subs.

You'll set the listening mic at the primary listening position.

It's a lot easier than it sounds.

[subwoofery 0]

Morel Ultimo 10" for sub stage. Heard the 12" and it is DELICIOUS.