more crossover help for VJ!

[pimpedout97x 4]

ok last thread i promise- i wanna keep this clean and no bs posts, just information please.

reason is that i'm positive this is the last thread is becuase i got my tweeters in, and they were hard to find, i got the 8 of the last 10 pairs they had in stock, and i only paid dealer cost (48 a pair SHIPPED) vs like 80 a pair where most others sell them for.

anyways, they're still bullets, i know you guys wont like them, but they are comparable to Eminence sound wise, they're a tad bit louder too, 109dB efficient....

also, they look better too. again, not to most of you guys, but i didnt want 16 big square eminence tweeters, so i got these, they look like the Beyma/o2 bullets, and they're black and match my theme well.

I'll post pics in post 2, so i dont clutter this post up with pics.

anyways, these too come with a cap for each tweeter. they say "3.3J 100V" on them.

Jim or someone that will know, what freq is that crossing my tweets at, and i believe yall said its a 6dB slope.

the tweeters are 3 ohm each, i tested a single one with a DMM, it reads a steady 3.3 ohm.

with that in mind, IF i use the caps, what will it be crossed at?

but the real question is, which ive asked before, i should just get a good 3 way crossover, so i can cross my sub, the 16 mids (powered by a single amp) and the 16 tweets (also powered by a single amp)?

also, WHAT would you guys cross these tweets at so they wont blow? the box says they play from 3k-20k, should i cross @ 3k, or to be safe, go a little higher?

the mids on the other hand play pretty good up to 8-10k or so, they say they play up to 15k but i doubt it (is there any way i can test what freq they actually play to?)

last but not least, can someone, IN GREAT DETAIL, explain slopes to me? like 6dB slope, 12, 18, 36? how come i should go with a 18 or 36dB slope for the tweets vs a 6dB like the caps are? id like to learn about that in more depth please.

thanks for anyone who would like to help me.

[pimpedout97x 4]

[pimpedout97x 4]

lol should i stick with all power acoustik haha http://cgi.ebay.ca/POWER-ACOUSTIK-3-WAY-EL...bayphotohosting

[pimpedout97x 4]

ok im getting ready to just order a Coustic XM6. looks nice. should i?

[johnecon2001 82]

Well I can't answer the cap crossover point question, but I can help with the frequencies you should cross at and what slopes are. I'll start with slopes.

The easiest way to understand it is to think of it in grades of steepness like on a highway. You see signs for 7% grade 5% grade and so on. The higher the percent the steeper the grade.

Same thing goes for Crossover slopes. The larger the number the steeper the slope. With a steeper slope, the crossover point will encompass less frequencies when it rolls off. Say you cross the tweets at 3k and the mids at 3k using a 24dB slope. The mids will still play up to about 4-5k. They'll play that high at a decreasing rate as the slope goes down, but they'll still play up to it. With a shallower 6dB, they'll play even higher. Vice versa for the tweets.

Here is an image that represents that. Look at the red lines and the slope on the front end of one and the slope on the back of the other:

You can mess with the slopes to properly blend the sound coming from the speakers. Most speakers have a natural frequency roll of built into them (just the way the thing works). The trick is to find that natural roll off and then find the slope and crossover point that makes the easiest and most natural transition to the tweeter as possible.

So you have your approximate roll off point for the tweeter, which is a good place to start. Now find one for the mid. Try a few different ones, make them all decently close to the 3k mark. If it just isn't blending and the tweeter is playing too much, move the point on the tweet up.

[///M5 2,833]

VJ, it is really pointless to consider whatever frequency the manufacturer is using. The bottom line is it should be defined by your install and your install only. In your case you will be able to run closer to 3k the higher the slope you run on the crossover. In reality since you really only care about loud you should protect those drivers by crossing much higher. If you are using a 6dB slope I would start at 6k lowest and maybe work down from there. They might even need to be crossed higher as those are not at all designed to play low and the spec that the manufacturer is giving is overly generous.

Try 6k send them some power and listen to them. Turn down the frequency and when they start to stress turn it back up a bit. Experiment by listening to different slopes. When you listen to them have all other drivers OFF. Of course in this process you are going to realize how unecessary it is that you bought so many...

The XM6 is the CHEAPEST crossover that is even close to being worth a chit. If you look at something else more "value" oriented run away from it. The 6 is okay, although there are many better options for your strange needs it should be fine.

[pimpedout97x 4]

well the coustik xm6 is 18dB slope, so would like 3500-4000hz @ 18dB be good?

[pimpedout97x 4]

im liking the way this Memphis 16-X03 is looking.

18dB High Pass/24db Low Pass

Tweeters: HP 50-4000Hz

Mids: HP 50Hz-400Hz, LP 50-4000Hz

so i could do 4k @ 18dB for the tweets, and have the mids play up to 4k?

or the coustic, which is 18dB as well, i could do like 4500hz, but i can only play the mids to 3k.....there would be a huge gap there, unless i play the mids full range.

[///M5 2,833]

You aren't listening, start at 6k or don't go active. You need to use your ears and your brain.

[pimpedout97x 4]

i understand what you're saying, but read your quote from earlier:

If you are using a 6dB slope I would start at 6k lowest and maybe work down from there.

if i use the coustic or memphis 3 way, they are both 18dB slope, not 6dB.

[///M5 2,833]

Even with 18dB you should start there...the maybe was with only 6dB even trying to lower it less.

[pimpedout97x 4]

oh ok.

so if i do start there, which with the Coustic i can start at as high as 8k, what would i do for my mids? if i use the crossover for the mids, i can only allow them to play up to 3k....then there would be a gap from 3k to 6k where the tweets pick up.

[pimpedout97x 4]

picked up a BNIB Coustic XM6 for 47 shipped

question for you M5, or whoever else may know.

if i have the HPF on my tweeter amp set to 350hz (the max HP) which is a 12dB slope, plus the 18dB slope of the XM6, will that make the overall slope 30dB, or is that incorrect?

[johnecon2001 82]

picked up a BNIB Coustic XM6 for 47 shipped

question for you M5, or whoever else may know.

if i have the HPF on my tweeter amp set to 350hz (the max HP) which is a 12dB slope, plus the 18dB slope of the XM6, will that make the overall slope 30dB, or is that incorrect?

Incorrect, You can't add slopes together. They will overlay though if you have two crossovers at the same point, and the one with a greater slope will basically take precedents over the shallower one.

[pimpedout97x 4]

damn see some people say you can, you say they dont. im getting confused with different things now lol

[///M5 2,833]

They will "add" but only if the slopes intersect exactly and remember they are log slopes so hitting the same isn't really so easy to do.

In your setup big gaps in frequency response won't hurt anything, you won't even notice. They will protect your drivers though. I have never run an active setup where there wasn't a gap, of course for me it is do to imaging reasons for you really it is just to protect your drivers.

[pimpedout97x 4]

oh ok.