Sub-30Hz tuning

[kryptonitewhite 1]

For years I've been obsessed with InfraLow bass. OK, not sub-sonic anymore...now 20-30Hz. I've had so many debates, and I've gotten so much critisizm for tuning "too low". The best way to argue would be...is there information on music CD's from 20-30Hz? I've had this discussion before, but no one had any solid proof. People with frequency spectrum analyzers said "Akon and Young Jeezy's Soul Survivor only goes down to 33Hz". When you play it on an analyzer, it shows a PEAK low of 33Hz. When you play a 33Hz test tone, it doesn't show 33Hz!

Here are some songs that I believe to have information well below 30Hz:

Hail Mary, Tupac Shakur, The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory, Makaveli!

Return of the "G", OutKast Aquemini

Late Night Tip Three 6 Mafia Da End CD

Cryptorchild Marilyn Manson Antichrist Superstar (Not even the organ passage, something lower)

Check this vid at :29 seconds. This is the stuff I like, this is what i need to safe guard my subs from with over-excursion, this is where I want my system to peak:

http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/Kicker/solox18.5.wmv

here are some spectrum analyzer links:

http://www.relisoft.com/Freeware/freq.html

http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/cat/SPECTRUM_ANALYZERS/

http://www.phonature.com:8092/home/product...c_HandDeeSA.htm

[///M5 2,833]

What is your point? In a house tuning ultra low can help lfe but in a car it isn't necessary since cabin gain makes up the difference.

[Adrian_D 520]

The way I understand it (haven't used a low-tuned box in a car...yet) is that because of the cabin-gain involved in a vehicle, the lower the tuning, the lowest frequencies will be very accentuated and you will end up with a low-end monster, that's going to lack a lot in the higher part (50-60) and that is not cool.

Someone correct me on that if i'm wrong.

Protecting the subwoofer from that ultra-low ocntent is the job of the subsonic filter.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

What is your point? In a house tuning ultra low can help lfe but in a car it isn't necessary since cabin gain makes up the difference.

My point is, with just 1 "good" 15" subwoofer sealed, I have ALL the 30Hz on up I want. You? Maybe not. I'm not trying to be Steve Meade and knockin my brains out from 27-37Hz. Sure, i'd love to roll with him...but not every freakin day!

I'm not talking LFE here, music CD's haven't cought up yet

Even with cabin gain, I still have too much 30's up and not enough 30's down

[kryptonitewhite 1]

The way I understand it (haven't used a low-tuned box in a car...yet) is that because of the cabin-gain involved in a vehicle, the lower the tuning, the lowest frequencies will be very accentuated and you will end up with a low-end monster, that's going to lack a lot in the higher part (50-60) and that is not cool.

Someone correct me on that if i'm wrong.

Protecting the subwoofer from that ultra-low ocntent is the job of the subsonic filter.

First off...whats a quicky box cost to build? 20-40 bucks? Just TRY one for fun. To learn. The more boxes you make and play with, the better at it all you get.

Yes, I will benefit from cabin gain. Even then, with my low lows accentuated, I'm still not happy with my low low output, yet driven crazy with too much normal-low output

Lack in the upper 50-60s? 2 15's SEALED with 2kW each is WAY too much for me. So my low tuning, not affecting 50-60Hz ( without getting too tecnical with port resonance and such) is PLENTY! And, mind you, I have 4 Extremis on a KX850.4 covering 50Hz-70Hz.

[Adrian_D 520]

I don't get it.

You want lots of low-end output, but a car like Meade's is too much for you.

You want to protect your subs by tuning them lower ? I remember I simulated a sub tuned well below it's fs and, surprise, according to the software you could over-excurt it with program between the fs and the port tuning.

2 sealed 15's are too much for you. Then why bother with tuning extremely low ?

[kryptonitewhite 1]

what I'm getting at is there is a significant difference between 23Hz and 45Hz. Every time you 1/2 an octave, you must move 4 times as much air to maintain the same decibel level.

I could drive around with 4 18's off 20,000 watts more than most, cuz i'm a bass head.

But going from 45Hz to 23Hz, is exponentially more power and displacement. I'd RATHER 2 15's tuned low than 4 18's tuned "mid" because I love the lower lows that much more. Steve Meade is NOT too much for me in general. I'm talking preference. I'd rather 8 18's at 20Hz than 4 at 27. I want it to get louder as it gets lower, not have to use a subsonic filter to keep from unloading.

I will NOT use a subsonic filter if I can help it. The lower it gets, I want it LOUDER. So sacrificing 30Hz on up.

should that be 2 18's at 27? IDK...you get the point.

Edited January 1, 2008 by kryptonitewhite

[Adrian_D 520]

Sure, i'd love to roll with him...but not every freakin day!

Steve Meade is NOT too much for me in general.

OK, that confusing.

Even in you last post you're contradicting yourself.

Do you really need to have output below 20 Hz ? Are you sure there is a bit of music variety with that freqeuncy extension ?

Because it's going to get really old really fast listening to the same 5 songs over and over and over and over.

You also need to realise that the lower you go the more energy you need for your ears to perceve the same effect. This turns your "goal" into an uphill battle IMO.

Seems to me that you're trying to beat Hoffman's Iron Law. Lots of drivers in a small space, with lots of output and very low frequency extension...

[kryptonitewhite 1]

Do you really need to have output below 20 Hz ? Are you sure there is a bit of music variety with that freqeuncy extension ?

Because it's going to get really old really fast listening to the same 5 songs over and over and over and over.

You also need to realise that the lower you go the more energy you need for your ears to perceve the same effect. This turns your "goal" into an uphill battle IMO.

Seems to me that you're trying to beat Hoffman's Iron Law. Lots of drivers in a small space, with lots of output and very low frequency extension...

If I wanted below 20Hz, I'd tune below 20Hz.

Yes, it is an uphill battle going for 20-30 tho

I didn't say listening to Meade everyday would be too loud. Listening to Steve at the frequency responce range that he has would get old. I don't like his responce curve.

[///M5 2,833]

What is your point? In a house tuning ultra low can help lfe but in a car it isn't necessary since cabin gain makes up the difference.

My point is, with just 1 "good" 15" subwoofer sealed, I have ALL the 30Hz on up I want. You? Maybe not. I'm not trying to be Steve Meade and knockin my brains out from 27-37Hz. Sure, i'd love to roll with him...but not every freakin day!

I'm not talking LFE here, music CD's haven't cought up yet

Even with cabin gain, I still have too much 30's up and not enough 30's down

You make no sense. You say sealed is enough so stick with it.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

Since youre so smart, I don't see why you can't filter out my ignorance and just get my point. Start with pompous ass?

I said I don't need reinforcement above 30Hz, but I do below, which is exactly why I tune the way I do. Give it a rest, I don't need to stick with anything.

If you dont like what Im saying, please try to simply ignore me like Ive been trying to do you, so others who are more forgiving and understanding can continue to have fun talks.

Thank you.

[///M5 2,833]

I don't want you to mislead others and you have a lot of misconceptions.

[kryptonitewhite 1]

I understand. I hope I'm not misleading anyone, I hope most people are understanding what I'm apparently not saying the best way.

I don't have any misconceptions, I think I'm being partly misunderstood, and partly disagreed with. I have experience. I'm sure we have both heard many many different alignments, and both built many as well. I stand by my belief that in my case, tuning below the norm is not a waste, and that it is benmeficial to me. I've heard the difference and I like the difference. I don't think it makes sense to most because I am not after what most want.

[JimJ 11]

is there information on music CD's from 20-30Hz? I've had this discussion before, but no one had any solid proof.

Anyone who doesn't say there's "proof" really doesn't know what they're talking about.

[CBFryman 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Bq0cfydzc

[Godsmack 361]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Bq0cfydzc

Anything u post is like the retarded leading the blind

[CBFryman 2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Bq0cfydzc

Anything u post is like the retarded leading the blind

You're so cool.

[jntar 15]

Did you have a question? or were you stating songs you believed to have sub 30hz music? because I know that Late night tip is not as low as you believe. Id bet on 37hz or around there.