Full Range Home Audio Project

[ANeonRider 3]

So, I am looking for something that can give me ~1000-1200W @ 4ohm for my home system & for testing subwoofers.

Form factor really doesn't matter, rack mount or plate.

Cost is a factor, so nothing outrageously expensive. If you have something for sale yourself, let me know, and we can talk.

Let me know what you think is good, and why. I'm going to try to pick up something by the end of the week, so I can get one of our manufacturers my thoughts on one of his prototypes already.

Thanks guys.

[///M5 2,833]

The real question is if there is anything used available near you. I should have sent my Crown back with you as I won't need it until you will be back. Too heavy to send that far though.

[ANeonRider 3]

If there is, I don't know where I could find it... Neil may have a better idea than I.

[DevilDriver 28]

http://creativesound.ca/details.php?model=LT1300

It's really this amp, but at a way lower price:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=372

Keiga is an OEM for a few companies, IIRC.

Aside from that, a lot of stuff in the US that you'll get hurt for at the border.

[ANeonRider 3]

Thanks Neil... exactly what I was looking for. Uses the ICEpower chips, like my PDXs do as well.

86% efficient, so at 1000W of output (which will barely ever be done, ever), will be using ~10A. Great!

$420 shipped & no border fees. Not bad. I'll probably go with that then.

Might pick up 2 of their widrange drivers to play with as well, likely try them out in a rear loaded horn enclosure. Might try them out in the car as well.

What are your feelings on them Neil? I know you had/have used them.

[ANeonRider 3]

Also, I haven't googled it yet, but if anyone has any links to DIY full range amplifier designs, for 2 channels of around 50W of power, please link me.

[DevilDriver 28]

Thanks Neil... exactly what I was looking for. Uses the ICEpower chips, like my PDXs do as well.

86% efficient, so at 1000W of output (which will barely ever be done, ever), will be using ~10A. Great!

$420 shipped & no border fees. Not bad. I'll probably go with that then.

Might pick up 2 of their widrange drivers to play with as well, likely try them out in a rear loaded horn enclosure. Might try them out in the car as well.

What are your feelings on them Neil? I know you had/have used them.

The FR's are really good for full range response with a good bottom end in a small enclosure (0.25 cubic foot bass-reflex works fine...see their EL1 kit). That's the beauty of a 4.5" driver with 6mm of Xmax. If you go with a horn (look for the PAWO horn...I use a slightly modified version of it currently) you can get a lot of low end oomph. As far as it's full range capabilites, it is probably the best full range driver I've heard. Detail is a little lost on the top end but I'd say that's the case for any single full range driver without a whizzer cone...and I don't particularly care for whizzer cones.

Also, I haven't googled it yet, but if anyone has any links to DIY full range amplifier designs, for 2 channels of around 50W of power, please link me.

I don't know of many for around 50W per channel. I personally imagine that the parts might make it fun but cost prohibitive...but then again, I've never built a full amplifier before. If you do go the full range route and put it in a horn, you can get very respectable output with less than 10W, and there's lots of those designs around. DIYAudio.com is a good route to go there.

It is likely that I will be a "representative" of sorts for CSS on the side in addition to SSA...not really in an aggressive stance but just helping those who are interested in their stuff. If you are interested, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

[ANeonRider 3]

I am very interested Neil. I'll pm you & we can discuss this when I get home in 45 minutes.

[DevilDriver 28]

Sounds good. I read your posts as an indication that you are going to be quite involved in the audio world on a continual basis, which is great. There is a forum right around the corner that you will be wanted at.

[ANeonRider 3]

Ya, a little birdie told me about it

[topgun 262]

My vote goes to finding a QSC amp on ebay...

[ANeonRider 3]

With shipping & border fees, I will likely pay more than what the plate amp Neil just linked me to & wait an extra 7-10 days longer for it.

[ANeonRider 3]

Also, I haven't googled it yet, but if anyone has any links to DIY full range amplifier designs, for 2 channels of around 50W of power, please link me.

I don't know of many for around 50W per channel. I personally imagine that the parts might make it fun but cost prohibitive...but then again, I've never built a full amplifier before. If you do go the full range route and put it in a horn, you can get very respectable output with less than 10W, and there's lots of those designs around. DIYAudio.com is a good route to go there.

It is likely that I will be a "representative" of sorts for CSS on the side in addition to SSA...not really in an aggressive stance but just helping those who are interested in their stuff. If you are interested, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

I completely forgot... I have a DIY amp here that I built while I was in school. Why I forgot? No idea.

Going to take it to work tomorrow & get some measurements. FR, plots of harmonics (100Hz, 1k, 10k) & output power. I think we have dummy loads at work I could power them into. From what I remember, I think it did 80W into 8ohms. Have to see if I can find any documentation now too.

Edit: Found the documentation, 45W @ 8 ohms, stable to 4 ohms.

[DevilDriver 28]

You should get hold of the schematics and maybe we can looking at building a few if FR is worthwhile.

[dem beats 1,223]

Just a thought but the behringer EP2500 puts out tons of power for the price.

Just thinking out loud... I don't know if you would get nailed for cost but I knwo behringer is everywhere and have yet to hear real negative things about the EP. QSC and Crown has everyone swinging however, not that they don't look better and run quieter. I know some guys even buy the EP 2500 and mod the fan to be quieter.. again price per wat.. good deal on them.

I have been thinking about an SDX 15 HT (maybe dual I saw craig sub did a sealed dual, looked impressive and ranked high on his little chart of subs) sub for a long time.. Heck they are even in the running for my expedition. I think a pair of those would do mighty nice..

I had the funds awhile back but ended up having to pay for bils... what a waste. I really wish they would make an 18" version of those bad boys.

big cones ftw for HT... heck and my truck!!

Edited October 15, 2007 by dem beats

[ANeonRider 3]

You should get hold of the schematics and maybe we can looking at building a few if FR is worthwhile.

I have them here in the documentation, as well as the parts list. I also have two of them, I built one & so did my brother.

[///M5 2,833]

I am interested as well...glad to make some measurements if necessary as well.

[JimJ 11]

http://www.frugel-horn.com and Planet10's site has some good ideas for FR125 horns as well, in particular there's a double-mouth floorstanding horn that looks promising...

[ANeonRider 3]

After doing more research, I am going to be utilizing a BIB enclosure.

Going to be using the GM BIB enclosure design from http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-gm.asp.

Internal dimensions

Height: 60"

So: 24"

Width: 6 1/4"

Depth: 8 3/4"

A,B,C: 4 3/8"

Sm: ~55 in^2

[JimJ 11]

This is getting to be the BIB club here...

[ANeonRider 3]

I have a bunch of 1 & 2 ohm high power (50W & 100W) resistors here to use for testing the amplifiers. The amplifiers share the same components, but my case is larger than my brother's & therefore, so is the locations of components relative to each other. I am going to try to find the documentation in electionic format, I lost my copies, but my brother may still have his. If not, I will scan what I currently have in printed material.

I plan on testing the following:

Full power

Efficiency

V no load

Idle power draw

Regulation %

Harmonic Distortion, with fundamental freqeuncies of 20Hz, 100Hz, 1kHz & 10kHz

Frequency Response, at 1W & full power, input will be pink noise

Signal to Noise, at 1W & full power

Output Impedance

Loaded Channel Separation

http://www.audioholics.com/education/ampli...ment-techniques

The testing will occur at both 4 & 8 ohm resistive loads. I do not have a variac, so input voltage cannot be guaranteed to be stable @ 120Vrms during the testing process. Both channels will be powered for these tests to test the true capabilities.

If anyone has any other tests that you would like to see, let me know. I will be doing this tomorrow after work (2130Z, or 5:30PM EST).

[DevilDriver 28]

Scott, I'll call you tonight after I talk with Bob. You thinking BIB for FR's? I've started on the same thing over here.

I want to try my hand at one of the BVR designs that for the FR125 (Harvey or Mikasa) but don't have the patience for that much wood work right now.

Do you recall what parts cost is on that amplifier?

[ANeonRider 3]

I think it was close to $350-375 at the time ('04), including the Hammond case ($50).

Yes, BIBs for the FR. From what I have read, the performance in one is excellent, and there is no difficulty at all building one.

[topgun 262]

This is getting to be the BIB club here...

We sure will.

I'm even looking into building another pair, not any bigger though.

Can't wait to see what you come up with though Scott!

[JimJ 11]

I'm even looking into building another pair, not any bigger though.

Wuss. You know you want to do 15's.

That'd be something...B&C 15's in a BIB and Altec sectional horns for the midrange/top end...yikes.