SQ people...take a look at this 8" for me...

[JimJ 11]

I also learned that I should stay away from more than one driver playing the same frequencies. I guess I got this idea from the MTM setup I see so often on home audio designs.

Very different environments

[///M5 2,833]

I'll tell you one thing, those AC's will sound terrible with a generic passive crossover.

And if I said hold up, it isn't quite exactly what I meant. I was trying to imply that for the same output they shouldn't have to work as hard. Considering that I don't think this is what destroyed your Peerless drivers I am not so sure it would help you to change drivers.

As for your 3 way question, I would highly, highly recommend you tackle a 2 way active first. On one other note on the 3 way I wouldn't use the AC or that Morel in one anyways you would really benefit from 3 completely different drivers. Until you really understand the environment you are playing in a 3 way is really a bit complex. In particular if you even think you might buy a passive off the shelf and another driver to go with the AC and Morel, IMO you might as well just buy some cheap components and call it good as they will probably work out better.

[The Natural 0]

"Considering that I don't think this is what destroyed your Peerless drivers I am not so sure it would help you to change drivers."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Peerless mids are doing fine. I found which models I went with. I love these things, but two just don't cut it for dynamics. The reason I have considered replacing the Peerless drivers is to get a little more bass up front, more output in general to better match the Morels, while still not worrying about beating on them.

Here are the specs:

Model 850122

Sandwich composite cone

Power handling: 150 watts RMS

DC res: 6.1 ohms

Freq Response 38-5000Hz

FS: 38Hz

Sens: 87dB

VAS: .98 cu. ft.

QMS: 2.22

QES: .53

QTS: .43

Xmax: 5.5mm

I burned the coils in both my Morel tweeters one night with the USA-2000 playing at 8 ohms. I have since replaced the coil/dome assembly in each and they are doing fine.

Edited September 26, 2007 by The Natural

[The Natural 0]

Here's a link to my original thread on Termpro asking about the Peerless years ago...

http://audioforum.termpro.com/cgi-bin/ubb/...c;f=21;t=001404

I noticed they recommended the driver with the higher qts, stating that a qts of .29 is a little low for IB, so I chose the driver with a qts of .43 instead.

(maybe I shouldn't have taken advice from a 'dingaling' but oh well...things worked out ok!)

Anyway...now I see that the Aurum Cantus has a qts of .23, so is IB a bad choice in general for this driver? Plus I read that they are made in China. This just keeps getting better!

[ANeonRider 3]

IB in car is definately not the same as in home...

Any midbass driver will perform well in IB in the doors. VAS & Fs should be considered as well, over & above QTS.

[ANeonRider 3]

I skipped everything up to now... 2 way or 3 way?

If you are wanting a powerful 8" driver for midbass for a 3 way... look no further than the SLS from Peerless

For a 2 way, Seas, either the CA version is my pick. Peerless Exclusive is 2nd to them.

Either way, a 8" driver in a 2 way system is going to be very hard to implement well, due to frequency response.

[The Natural 0]

Posted by ANeonRider

"Either way, a 8" driver in a 2 way system is going to be very hard to implement well, due to frequency response."

I guess it's hard to find an 8" that will play smoothly high enough for the tweeter to take over?

People were already telling me to cross at 2khz because the 6.5's weren't great for higher midrange. I didn't want to cross the Morel tweeters that low for the sake of power handling.

[ANeonRider 3]

Most good 6.5" drivers that are designed for 2 way applications should be fine up to 5kHz, look at the frequency response of the Seas CA/ER of the Prestige series or Scanspeak Revs or Seas Excel for example. Key is the installation (on or off axis). The problem with crossing over so low (2k) is that you get a floating image & power handling issues with most tweeters (which is why so many blow tweeters so often). This can be slightly modified dependant on how close proximity the drivers are to each other. Personally, I couldn't stand to hear tweeters playing below 4k.

You want the as much of the midrange/vocal range to play through one size driver.

Personally, I wouldn't touch Morel drivers, not a fan. Peerless HDS is you are going large format.

[todd.brust 29]

what is the vocal range anyways? somewhere 2Kish right?

i think you could find a good 8" driver...you just have to look hard enough...find a low inductance 8" with a good on axis response that will work in a door IB application...i guess it is a little easier said than done...i have no suggestions but there is a driver out there

it all depends too...i was told as a rule of thumb, don't cross a tweeter any lower than two octaves above resonance...

[ANeonRider 3]

from around 250Hz to 4-4.5k.

On axis in the door? Not quite. You would have to stuff them in the kicks & aim well to get them on axis. In the door = off axis.

[///M5 2,833]

Ok, I thought you blew your mids from your first post not your tweets. If you whacked the Morels either those passives are complete crap or you are a bit gain happy on your amps. If you set yours by ear I would highly suggest verifying their set point with an oscilloscope as those tweeters are robust and usually only fail with mis-use.

As for your search for an 8" 2 way, there really aren't any that I would use beyond 1200hz. Getting a cone that big if non-paper will have breakup modes that are nasty and the driver will start beaming as well. Neither are things that I would consider something that I could stomach.

I know Scott stated he doesn't want to hear a tweeter play below 4kHz but he has the advantage of a true 3 way and can get away with that. If you use a rather simple 7" driver you could as well, but there is not a hard cone (metal, poly, kevlar) in the 7" size that you can play that high. In fact, most I would highly recommend crossing over below 2kHz. The Seas Excel is a great example, anything over 1300hz without a notch and you get the fun of extending all the s's in any vocal as the cone breaks up.

Personally I was never a fan of the CSX driver, when you said you had the Peerless I assumed it was the Exclusive which is a great driver. Not that the CSX was a terrible driver, but for instance the $30 Dayton RS180 walks all over it in bass response and midrange clarity. It won't work nearly as well again with some generic passive.

Before going any further you really need to commit to going active or not. If you say not, do realize my recommendation will probably shift to buying a set of components off the shelf.

[todd.brust 29]

from around 250Hz to 4-4.5k.

On axis in the door? Not quite. You would have to stuff them in the kicks & aim well to get them on axis. In the door = off axis.

yeah you're right....i know in the doors are not on axis...but i just remembered someone asking about speakers what works in doors ib...

my bad

[ANeonRider 3]

I think I'll clarify that you can successfully crossover the tweets/mids at 2k no problem if they are in VERY close proximity to one another. Otherwise you'll get a very confused image.

[sqguy 0]

for instance the $30 Dayton RS180 walks all over it in bass response and midrange clarity

I was looking at the RS225 8", but it also rolls off a lot on the bottom end? Even by 100Hz it is way down in db. (like 4-5db; as far as mid bass use) The better 8s (like the SLS) seem to peak at 100Hz and are fairly flat above, roll off less below. Some subs peak higher at 100 and roll off higher and lower.

Seems like a point to consider if using for range of say roughly 50-80Hz up to 250-500Hz or more? Or do you expect to EQ it out?

I was looking at it for my mids but this looks like a problem....then again charts don't always tell the whole story. But if I run subs up to 50, I need the 8s there and ready above that which would mean huge output at the 200-300Hz peak even running 100Hz and up.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/295-376g.pdf

[///M5 2,833]

for instance the $30 Dayton RS180 walks all over it in bass response and midrange clarity

I was looking at the RS225 8", but it also rolls off a lot on the bottom end? Even by 100Hz it is way down in db. (like 4-5db; as far as mid bass use) The better 8s (like the SLS) seem to peak at 100Hz and are fairly flat above, roll off less below. Some subs peak higher at 100 and roll off higher and lower.

Seems like a point to consider if using for range of say roughly 50-80Hz up to 250-500Hz or more? Or do you expect to EQ it out?

I was looking at it for my mids but this looks like a problem....then again charts don't always tell the whole story. But if I run subs up to 50, I need the 8s there and ready above that which would mean huge output at the 200-300Hz peak even running 100Hz and up.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/295-376g.pdf

He is looking for a 2 way...and the SLS pukes above 300hz, perhaps even lower depending on your ears

[ANeonRider 3]

I wouldn't play it above 250. Any midbass I wouldn't want playing up to 300Hz, where it starts getting into the vocal range.

[sqguy 0]

Just saying in the response chart they look pretty weak in bass and you said good bass for the smaller one....even 2 or 3 way needs to get down to 100Hz right? If the RS would work I would consider it due to lower cost because it would get delivered to my house sooner, and otherwise looks promising....I don't need perfect in this car, just pretty good. Is cabin gain a factor here?

Yeah I am thinking 250-400 tops, as high in that range as sounds ok but I've never tried 8s in front before....or 3s....or 2s like I am going to. And if it don't work I am blaming all you guys for sure

[JimJ 11]

even 2 or 3 way needs to get down to 100Hz right?

I'd say even lower than that, 50 to 60...

[///M5 2,833]

The Daytons can play that low, but they will surely need some serious installation help and potentially some eq off the upper end to bring everything into where it needs to be. I won't say that is their strength though.

[sqguy 0]

I can't beat that SLS so far. The woofers I look at are weak bottomed like this dayton and the 8" subs peak at 100 but then drop off on the high side. Plus the subs tend to have that large backside/depth that might not fit a door that well (making me look back at woofers).

I almost posted a few days ago, I saw one of those shallow 10" subs that had a fairly flat response, but would that be a big hole in a door or what. Here it is http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cf...tnumber=264-862 check out the response from 40-400Hz. Qts is a little low and it costs more. Then again a door might not be much cf for a 10 and there are ways of tightening it up.

[ANeonRider 3]

1. Cabin gain occurs no matter where the driver is installed.

2. QTS is less of a concern in car IB installs. I wouldn't even use that as a consideration, Fs & Vas moreso.

[todd.brust 29]

what kind of Vas would you use for an IB install? Vas has allways been a spec that i can't comprehend...i know it is the amount of air equal to the compliance of the drivers suspension, but that doesn't have whole lot of meaning to me...i know someone said to think of the amount of air(the Vas rating) in an enclosure with the speaker and that is equal to the suspensions compliance but i odn't know...anyone welse have a better way for me to better understand this?

[ANeonRider 3]

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...p?showtopic=141

[ANeonRider 3]

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...p?showtopic=141

[ANeonRider 3]

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...p?showtopic=141