Question About Setting Gains?

[Schmuck 1]

I have read the amp setting tutorial on CA.com and it says to play a 60hz tone and set your gains to the AC voltage for your RMS. My question is wouldn't it be better to set the gains based on your box tuning because the amp puts out more power near box tuning to avoid clipping or would you still use a 60 hz tone? Like my box is tuned to 40 hz wouldn' it be better to tune my system with a 40hz test tone? Correct me if I am wrong, please and since I listen to rap I should use a -3db tone right? And just wondering does anybody know what db tones are used on Bass Mekanik Quad Maximus? Could I use that to set my gains safely?

[ANeonRider 3]

Amp puts out the least amount of power at tuning due to impedance rise at the tuned frequency... just use 60Hz if you must use the DMM method,

[Schmuck 1]

Do I need to turn the sub sonic filter and LPF all the way down while setting my gains? And yes I have to use the multimeter method.

[ANeonRider 3]

Set them as they would be when in use...

[///M5 2,833]

Depending on the quality of your amp the DMM method can be dangerous. If it won't do power you will set it to clip.

[ANeonRider 3]

I'll have an o-scope tutorial complete with pictures wrote up sometime in the next 2 weeks.

[Adrian_D 520]

I'll have an o-scope tutorial complete with pictures wrote up sometime in the next 2 weeks.

now THAT would be uber sweet

[dopey 0]

I'll have an o-scope tutorial complete with pictures wrote up sometime in the next 2 weeks.

now THAT would be uber sweet

...and unnecessary for 99% of the people who would come into contact with it.

Just use your ears. If your ears aren't good enough to set gains, you won't be able to appreciate a high dollar sound system anyway. Do you know any blind guys with 60" Plasma's?

Edited August 15, 2007 by dopey

[ANeonRider 3]

dopey... resident expert obviously.

[dopey 0]

dopey... resident expert obviously.

Is it that obvious? I'll try to tone it down a bit. I didn't notice you getting jealous, again.

[DevilDriver 28]

Personally, I would say setting by ear is more than appropriate for most. A little clipping probably won't bother most (by which I mean won't be audible) and a lot of clipping will be quite noticeable, although not as much in a subwoofer. Obviously, you need to be more sensitive to clipping in some circumstances than others, but it's not the instant destroyer of worlds it is often touted as.

For sheer accuracy, use an oscilloscope, then a DMM. For ease of use, use your ears. My opinion only.

[ANeonRider 3]

IMO oscopes are good for keeping things linear... but beautiful to use when level matching... especially with all the crap I have going on in a 3 way active system.

[Adrian_D 520]

I'll have an o-scope tutorial complete with pictures wrote up sometime in the next 2 weeks.

now THAT would be uber sweet

...and unnecessary for 99% of the people who would come into contact with it.

Just use your ears. If your ears aren't good enough to set gains, you won't be able to appreciate a high dollar sound system anyway. Do you know any blind guys with 60" Plasma's?

if he does put up a tutorial, will you please keep out comments like the ones above ? thanks

i've read your opinion a couple times.

[///M5 2,833]

For the non-oscilloscope crowd, it isn't that I don't agree but I think that your impressions of the capability of most ears that come on to forums asking for help is way off. I bet that the average new poster couldn't tell 30% distortion playing through their sub (on music of course) and am sure that 15% on the fronts would be lost on them as well. You also have to remember that the average human ear can't tell the difference if it is within 3dB either. The other advantage of course at looking at your waveform is that it is pretty intuitive what is going on, when a noob doesn't they would hear something a little funny but it would be louder so they will choose louder. If you doubt me, go ahead and rethink auditioning speakers. I guarantee that as long as you are listening to comparable drivers a/b you will pick the louder one as the one you like better. (I realize that this is too general for the educated as the different sonic signatures of different driver types might flavor you, so amuse me and use it to compare two similar drivers). Again I am making generalizations for the masses, not for specific ones on here.

[dopey 0]

I'll have an o-scope tutorial complete with pictures wrote up sometime in the next 2 weeks.

now THAT would be uber sweet

...and unnecessary for 99% of the people who would come into contact with it.

Just use your ears. If your ears aren't good enough to set gains, you won't be able to appreciate a high dollar sound system anyway. Do you know any blind guys with 60" Plasma's?

if he does put up a tutorial, will you please keep out comments like the ones above ? thanks

i've read your opinion a couple times.

As long as we can still be friends.

And BTW...what "comments" are you requesting that I keep out of Neons upcoming post? Did I strike a nerve because YOU have less than stellar hearing? The statement that setting gains is better with an o-scope is debated at best, and wrong in many instances. And if setting gains with an o-scope is NOT better, than why do it?

I didn't realize the ihop circlejerk transmuted to so many areas of this forum.

pseudoaudiophiles abound. You talk tough, but there's no science to back up your holier than thou attitude towards anything audio.

spankit!!!

[Adrian_D 520]

good god just do it the way you like.

call me whatever you want if you think that is going to prove something.

i said "comments above". i'm not native english, but that seems clear enough to me

ok, let's try to get a little productive.

give me your thoughts on why setting gains with an o-scope isn't the best thing.

[crunch1 0]

oi vay, this is a controversial topic that has many valid points on all sides of properly setting gains. Personally I set my gains with a DMM I wish I had a O scope (maybe in the near future) to set them, but I will have to do with what I have at the moment. Bottom line to this topic is setting the gains so that your not damaging anything. Setting the gains by ear will work as will each other method, but IMHO by ear is not as accurate as a DMM or O scope for the average user. The DMM method would be the second best method for setting your gains, because of the fact you have a tangible number to work with not a subjective sound your listening for. Then finally the O scope method in conjunction with the DMM IMHO would be the best alternative for the average user to set their gains with. Seeing physical data and being able to accurately plot it will in my mind be far superior to the average user than listening for it. Now in reference to my use of the term average user, YES some people can accurately set their gains by ear with no substantial damage to their system, but not everyone hears the same or has the same experience with quality sound as the other. ok im done this was just my humble opinion, everyone has one this was just mine, thanks for reading.

~Peace~

[dopey 0]

Adrian, your English is very good for a non-native speaker. Sometimes I say things that people interpret as harsh or cold...I appologize, I just don't respond well to ignorance.

It all boils down to what you want out of a stereo.

If you are going to compete in SQ competitions, then using an RTA, O-Scope, and DMM would be the most accurate method to get a "measureable" flat eq response.

If the majority of your listening, is to be done by you, for enjoyment...then setting your gains by ear is going to be the most accurate method to get a good sounding stereo.

Another thing...if you HAVE an o-scope, you probably know how to use it. And if you don't, is it worth the several hundred $$$ just to play with and see if it can get your car to sound better than you can? Hardly.

If you can't get your speakers to all play the same volume congruently, then spend more time with it. That's part of the passion. It's also something that will give you more knowledge of the products you're working with.

Edited August 15, 2007 by dopey

[Adrian_D 520]

thankyou for coming back to a rational level.

i see your point. but i have to argue about winning sq comps. IMO, if you can afford to get a high level of accuracy for your enjoyment (there are hobby o-scopes, which go for under $200) why not do it ?

[JimJ 11]

And if you don't, is it worth the several hundred $$$ just to play with and see if it can get my car to sound better than I can? Hardly.

Yeah, O-scopes have no other uses in electronics other than setting gains on amps

If the majority of your listening, is to be done by you, for enjoyment...then setting your gains by ear is going to be the most accurate method to get a good sounding stereo.

You make it sound like there's a fundamental difference between setting up a car for SQ competition or everyday listening. Where there isn't, beyond tailoring the response curve to one a judge might like to one you like. And that's the job of the EQ, not the amps. Clipping is undesirable in either situation.

Personally, I don't like setting gains with a DMM because they mislead you. You can't argue with that, if you're just using a multimeter alone you're not getting the whole story. Unless you have a clamp meter to measure current you really don't know how much power is being sent to the speaker.

[dopey 0]

And if you don't, is it worth the several hundred $$$ just to play with and see if it can get my car to sound better than I can? Hardly.

Yeah, O-scopes have no other uses in electronics other than setting gains on amps

My bad, I thought that's what we were talking about here. Using Oscopes to set gains? Am I confused, or are you being difficult?

I just took it on faith that if someone didn't already own an Oscope, someone probably didn't "need" one.

[///M5 2,833]

If the majority of your listening, is to be done by you, for enjoyment...then setting your gains by ear is going to be the most accurate method to get a good sounding stereo.

To make a point, I dare you to grab an uninformed noob off an audio site and let him set your gains by his ears in your car. See what happens. I guarantee you won't like it. Offering that as a valid solution is dangerous.

[dopey 0]

If the majority of your listening, is to be done by you, for enjoyment...then setting your gains by ear is going to be the most accurate method to get a good sounding stereo.

To make a point, I dare you to grab an uninformed noob off an audio site and let him set your gains by his ears in your car. See what happens. I guarantee you won't like it. Offering that as a valid solution is dangerous.

Would you let me setup your car?

I probably wouldn't like how you set up my car either. One more reason to DO IT YOURSELF, and NOT blindly trust a machine to tell you which direction to twist the knob.

Edited August 15, 2007 by dopey

[crunch1 0]

I hear ya Jim, but why hasnt anyone said anything about over amping to get clean power. I mean basically clipping IMHO happens more from under powering than over. With that I will clarify, take a sub stage for instance. The Rms requirement is say 1000rms now you have a amp that can produce a maximum of 1000rms or you have a amp that can produce 1500rms maximum. The 1500rms amp will produce cleaner power at 1000rms than the 1000rms amp because its not at its maximum limit. (the amps are of equal efficiency and type). I think most people push their amps to the limit where clipping is more of a problem. IMHO

Edited August 15, 2007 by crunch1

[Adrian_D 520]

If the majority of your listening, is to be done by you, for enjoyment...then setting your gains by ear is going to be the most accurate method to get a good sounding stereo.

To make a point, I dare you to grab an uninformed noob off an audio site and let him set your gains by his ears in your car. See what happens. I guarantee you won't like it. Offering that as a valid solution is dangerous.

and NOT blindly trust a machine to tell you which direction to twist the knob.

that's what can happen when you use rta to set it up.

clipping is clipping. some may like distorsion but the o-scope will only tell you where to stop.