Starting the component purchases

[cubdenno 0]

Hello,

New to the forum, got turned on to it by a guy on the last forum I was a member of (audio-neon was his screen name). I am slowly buying up the components of my yet to be installed system. I have my sub (TCSOUNDS TC3000 15" DVC). I have my deck (Eclipse 3100) Xover (Audio control EQX) and the Epicenter. I ordered 1/0 wire 30ft of power and ground. I have done the big 3 already and have power and ground run directly from the engine bay to the trunk. I have a 3.2cubic foot sealed (2.6 cubic ft ported tuned to about 28 hertz) box built. I am leaning toward some CDT Components for the rest of my speakers. I have a zapco Z400c4 amp I am also leaning toward running the front stage as it is already mine. I was going to run my old Hifonics ISIS on the sub but was told it would not power the 15 adequately.

Sooo I am looking to upgrade the whole subwoofer amp experience. I am looking at the SAZ 1500D. If I run stock electrical (100 amp alternator) is this going to be a major issue. I upgraded the battery to a DIEHARD Platinum. Do I need an extra battery back near the amp? Or (I have been out of car stereo for a while) will my Autosound 2k Cap work alright.

Any input would be appreciated.

Cub

[ANeonRider 3]

What kind of crossover points does the EQX allow?

FYI. I hate caps & the epicenter.

[X-OvrDistortion 0]

I am leaning toward some CDT Components for the rest of my speakers. I have a zapco Z400c4 amp I am also leaning toward running the front stage as it is already mine.

CDT.............ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

IMHO, you can find a better all around sounding set then what CDT offers.

Edited August 6, 2007 by X-OvrDistortion

[TreyE 0]

i have boston pro60s and i absolutely love them FYI

[cubdenno 0]

Ok, to answer some questions,

I have 70 hertz as the crossover frequencies both high and low pass. and the slope is 24db/oct Subsonic is at 18 hertz. I do have a 25 hertz module to change if necessary. I am looking at the DQXS though. But it will really be an after everything else is purchased item.

Just so you know, I have a set of Boston Pro 6's and the pro 4.0's Also have a set of the MB Quart 3 ways 6 1/2- 4- tweet. All of these are from the early to mid nineties. I was just wanting to get new. So what is wrong with the CDT stuff. I was looking for something different than what is around me. Ilive in central Illinois. Stereo shops have pretty much gone the way of the DODO. And I refuse to purchase from Best City or Circuit Buy.

What is wrong with the Epicenter? Why is it now days Capacitors are so out of fashion? I was looking at Zapco's site and for their 9.0 Comp amp they recommend a large capacitor.

Which brings me to a question about Sundown amps. How does their sound compare to a Class AB amp. Sound qualitywise that is. I know they put out a god awful amount of power. And this would be obviously for the subwoofer.

If you were budgeting 1500 bucks for a sub amp and front stage speakers and rear fill what would be recommended?

Thanks for the advice

Cub

[///M5 2,833]

Cub,

You have a nice start but have been mislead perhaps in the past.

The Sundown is a great amp, will do more than its rated power and make you happy with its clean output. The comparison of class AB & D amps on subwoofers is not worth getting into. You cannot hear a difference. I am not saying their isn't a sonic signature of an amp, but in the case of a subwoofer in particular there is absolutely on reason to not be using class D power.

Capacitors do not do anything good for your stereo. In fact, they hide the issues that you might have with your electrical system. The only benefit to a capacitor is to keep your headlights from dimming. Of course, if this is your desire you should put it inline with your headlights and not with your amps power wire. There are exceptions, but they aren't worth talking about. In general they are a bad idea.

Rear fill is a waste of money. There is no surround sound in cars (and IMO music shouldn't have any either) so why would you want anything coming from behind you? It is always a better option to spend the money you'd normally put in the rears and instead spend it on the fronts. Sort of the same thing as your home stereo. For music only if you put all your budget into a 2chn amp and 2 front speakers, I guarantee it will not only sound better but if you want be louder as well than if you bought 4chn of amplification and 4 speakers.

Not sure why you would use an Epicenter. Any sort of "magic" processor that alters the way that your recorded music is presented is not a plus to me. At the moment of course they are marketing them to people who listen to compressed music off an ipod to fill in the lower portions of the music the ipod takes out to protect headphones. A simpler solution would be to not listen to compressed music which on a good system sounds like crap anyways. Lossless ftmfw.

The question about the crossovers was more to question the capability of the EQX for running an active based system bypassing all passive crossover components. While it seems possible with it, it would require hand selecting resistors (or so it seems from the 2sec I perused the manual just now) and could be done. This would allow you to run DIY style drivers and really up the ante.

IMO the Bostons you have are a significant improvement over the CDT's, but I am a midbass nut so that is a no brainer. Of course a DIY set would be a huge step above them as well.

If your budget is truly $1500 for a sub amp and front stage speakers there are a ton of options that you can run, including another active crossover if the EQX won't do what you want it to.

Let us know your reactions and we will help narrow down the gear!

[cubdenno 0]

Ahhhhhhh... Another midbass nut. So am I. In fact I used to have these 5 1/4 B&W Midbass drivers that were amazing.how I got them and what I paid is even more amazing. They got stolen in 97. Right after that I got out of Car audio.

Sorry, I didn't go into the EQX. I can do about any crossover point. Just have to make the modules.

As for rear fill, I was just going to throw some speakers in for extra sound. I do not plan on competing so the whole front soundstage is not as important as it used to be. But I do want it loud and crystal clear for every type of music.

I have been looking at doing an active system this time around. The speaker companies I have been looking at have been Morel, Dynaudio, (obviously at this point) CDT, and Focal. I still think i got a set of Kef's around. UniQ's I think. Have to check my attic. Also why i have been looking at the DQXS. Its capabilities would allow me to run all active. Of course I would have to get kick panels. ARGH!! You people are costing me more money. Of course my kids are getting chubby. Missing a few meals won't hurt to bad. And if by chance the department of child services takes them, they will feed them. HEY! I got a plan now!

My two buddies run Boston's in their car. I have always been a Boston fan. My buddies pro 12.54s are still great sounding subs. Of course all of our equipment is of an older nature. He runs 4 Phoenix gold MS275's. I just want to do something different. Anyone can go to one of the big electronic marts and throw a big Fosgate amp and a couple of 12's in a Q Logic box in the back of their SUV. I am looking for more.

Thanks for a little explaining of the amp type difference or rather lack of them sonically. I just wondered.

Yeah, 1500 bucks is what I have left after buying wire, wood and that big damn sub. I drive a Toyota Solara coupe. It has 6X9's in the doors and rear deck. And 2 1/2's in the dash. I do need to buy a dash kit for the deck but that is just pennies. It helps I still have the Zapco amp. That frees up a large part of my budget. Oh and I still need to buy sound deadener. Dynamat or some derivative.

Thanks for the guidance.

Cub

[///M5 2,833]

For deadener, look at Raamat or Second Skin. 2nd skin is a bit thicker and more effective but also costs more so you can't double up where needed on the same budget. An acoustic barrier like Ensolite is also helpful.

If you are thinking of running active, I'd highly recommend looking at the Peerless, Vifa, Scan-Speak, Seas, Dayton, Usher drivers available at partsexpress.com or madisound.com all of them will actually come under your budget significantly and allow you to add a crossover as well.

The big question now on your front stage is how much space do you have to mount the drivers and will they be on or off axis.

[ANeonRider 3]

Hmm, 6x9s in doors means you can probably fit 8" round with a baffle, 7" for sure... how deep can you fit?

2.5" in dash... large format tweeter, or full range 3" driver

That's if you want to stick to keeping the drivers in stock locations...

eff... im enjoying the influx of people that want to hear more than the bass as of late.

[cubdenno 0]

Well, considering I was not planning on kick panels to start with, They would be off axis in the doors. I was going to use the dash mounts for a set of tweets to bring up the soundstage. Hell, we used to do this way back when. We would wire them in with a pot. They would be crossed over fairly high. Anyway, I am a huge fan of parts express. I still have my first catalog from like 94 or 95 (I am a packrat!) So lets see. Off axis is the way the speakers will be mounted at least at first. If I go to a 3 way (Mid bass, mid range, tweeter) I will have to construct some kick panels. This of course takes time that is a precious commodity. I travel a lot! In fact heading to Florida for a couple of weeks in September. I am also remodeling my house. I spend as much time with my kids as possible so Car stereo work is only when I can squeeze it in.

Thanks for the recommendation of the sound deadener.

Go ahead and shoot me some decent speaker models if you have the time.

Cub

[///M5 2,833]

You could also do a 3 way without kicks. Use the door location for an 8, the dash for a 3" and put a tweeter in your sail panel.

[ANeonRider 3]

Another option yes...

8" or 7" midbass, 3" full range driver to handle most of the information & small tweeter for the high end sparkle. Kinda like what I am working on.

[cubdenno 0]

Thanks for all the input. I really do appreciate it. As for talking bass. Anybody can get some bass. A friend of my boy, comes over all the time and I have to fix his wiring. Two mismatched subs with a lightning audio amp a nice pioneer deck and 1 5 1/4 speaker upfront and that has a torn surround.

I have not removed the door panels. So do not know any of the mounting depths. I had also thought about putting a 7 or an 8 in the doors. QLogic makes a generic kick panel kit that might work for me. They do not make a vehicle specific one for an 06 Solara coupe.

I am intrigued about the tweeters in the windshield sail panel. But was contemplating that one as an imaging set up. With midwoof in door, say a dome midrange in the dash and the tweet up high, won't the image crash to the floor everytime there is a low vocal?

Now that you all have me thinking active, I do have a Fosgate A500.2 (125X2) sitting in the closet. That would drive the midwoof pretty well. And the Zapco could drive the mids and tweets. Or I could run Passive and bridge the Zapco to two channels and give the mid/tweet combo 300 watts a channel. I have an old Orion 900.2 but that is a little harsh. And the phoenix Gold MPS 2240 just does not have enough ass to it for what I want to do.Ouch!! My brain hurts.

Have been looking at Parts express. Wow they have a lot more drivers than I remember.

Cub

[ANeonRider 3]

midrange should be playing all frequencies that vocals are present anyways.

For example, in my setup, my starting points for crossover frequencies are going to be:

Midbass: 50-300Hz

Midrange: 300Hz-6kHz

Tweeter: 6kHz-20kHz

Normal vocal range is ~300Hz to 3500Hz. Classical opera singers can extend beyond those numbers, but it's a rough idea.

[///M5 2,833]

The main reason for going three way to me is to get a wicked midbass. Typically as Scott stated above you won't be able to get much more than 200-300hz out of it which being up front will really help keep your stage right and having the rest of the drivers higher will bring it way up. I am in the slow process of a vehicle swap and will be doing just that. Personally I can't wait.

edit: I would highly recommend going all active and using no passives at all even though it can be done.

[ANeonRider 3]

At the very least, active with the midbass & midrange, then use a -6 or -12dB passive for the tweeter. All active is completely ideal like Sean said.

[///M5 2,833]

At the very least, active with the midbass & midrange, then use a -6 or -12dB passive for the tweeter. All active is completely ideal like Sean said.

And only then if the tweeter and midrange are very close to each other.