Dome Midrange in Kick of S-10

[ANeonRider 3]

You might want to pick up a set of NS3, HiVi or Fostex 3" wide bandwidth drivers & try out that dash location, might be surprised. Reflections could work to your favor there too. Worst case is that you have $20 worth of 3" wide bands to play with for a different application if they don't work out in the dash.

[Flipx99 0]

You might want to pick up a set of NS3, HiVi or Fostex 3" wide bandwidth drivers & try out that dash location, might be surprised. Reflections could work to your favor there too. Worst case is that you have $20 worth of 3" wide bands to play with for a different application if they don't work out in the dash.

I will check those out on madisound.

I feel you on the pricing.

Thanks for your help.

[///M5 2,833]

I'm with Neil, if you can let your midrange do most of the work. Use the tweeter for sparkle and the midbass to keep the bass lines up front. Having a single driver play most of the acoustic spectrum is very helpful in creating realism of your stage. Since you are going with a dedicated midbass I would try hard to get the lp on your sub lower (also curious as to your 8dB slopes )

The best imaged system I have heard actually didn't even have tweets, just mids in the right spots with midbass in the doors and a sub in the trunk crossed at 31hz.

[Flipx99 0]

I'm with Neil, if you can let your midrange do most of the work. Use the tweeter for sparkle and the midbass to keep the bass lines up front. Having a single driver play most of the acoustic spectrum is very helpful in creating realism of your stage. Since you are going with a dedicated midbass I would try hard to get the lp on your sub lower (also curious as to your 8dB slopes )

The best imaged system I have heard actually didn't even have tweets, just mids in the right spots with midbass in the doors and a sub in the trunk crossed at 31hz.

I can go lower lp on the subs...I just cannot go lower hp on the mids.

[Flipx99 0]

What about the HAT Legatia 3?

[///M5 2,833]

I'm with Neil, if you can let your midrange do most of the work. Use the tweeter for sparkle and the midbass to keep the bass lines up front. Having a single driver play most of the acoustic spectrum is very helpful in creating realism of your stage. Since you are going with a dedicated midbass I would try hard to get the lp on your sub lower (also curious as to your 8dB slopes )

The best imaged system I have heard actually didn't even have tweets, just mids in the right spots with midbass in the doors and a sub in the trunk crossed at 31hz.

I can go lower lp on the subs...I just cannot go lower hp on the mids.

Crossover limited?

[ramos 2]

What about the HAT Legatia 3?

Unless you can mount them IB, or ap , I wouldn't. They need the biggest airspace you can give them

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/downloads/Hybr...rs%20Manual.pdf

[Flipx99 0]

I'm with Neil, if you can let your midrange do most of the work. Use the tweeter for sparkle and the midbass to keep the bass lines up front. Having a single driver play most of the acoustic spectrum is very helpful in creating realism of your stage. Since you are going with a dedicated midbass I would try hard to get the lp on your sub lower (also curious as to your 8dB slopes )

The best imaged system I have heard actually didn't even have tweets, just mids in the right spots with midbass in the doors and a sub in the trunk crossed at 31hz.

I can go lower lp on the subs...I just cannot go lower hp on the mids.

Crossover limited?

No. Manufacturer specifications.

[///M5 2,833]

I didn't think you had them picked out yet?

[Flipx99 0]

What about the HAT Legatia 3?

Unless you can mount them IB, or ap , I wouldn't. They need the biggest airspace you can give them

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/downloads/Hybr...rs%20Manual.pdf

I'd mount them in the dash, however airspace would be limited in a sense...

[Flipx99 0]

I didn't think you had them picked out yet?

I currently own the Cal27 and Profi Kick...I was wanting to add a midrange.

[///M5 2,833]

Sorry, when you typed "I just cannot go lower HP on the mids" I was picturing your mids and not a midbasses.

Either way, I think you actually can as they are rated conservatively assuming that most people will do a bad install with them. A bit of underlap usually is your friend as well although not always between the sub and midbass. I wouldn't let manufacturers specs waive me too much but don't expect it to be too differently.

[Flipx99 0]

Sorry, when you typed "I just cannot go lower HP on the mids" I was picturing your mids and not a midbasses.

Either way, I think you actually can as they are rated conservatively assuming that most people will do a bad install with them. A bit of underlap usually is your friend as well although not always between the sub and midbass. I wouldn't let manufacturers specs waive me too much but don't expect it to be too differently.

Do you have a particular reccomendation in what I am trying to do, or would you stick with a 2 way active setup and be done with it?

[///M5 2,833]

Yes in your situation I'd recommend going 2 way until you buy enough processing for a 3 way. A half done three way can easily be outdone by a well done 2 way. Of course, if we had more details on why you wanted to go 3 way in the first place it could change my answer.

[Flipx99 0]

Yes in your situation I'd recommend going 2 way until you buy enough processing for a 3 way. A half done three way can easily be outdone by a well done 2 way. Of course, if we had more details on why you wanted to go 3 way in the first place it could change my answer.

It is more just to do it other than a failure on what I have now....

I think enhancing what I have now will be better than trying to throw $$ at something...

-----------------------------

Just trying to think of the best place to put this tweeter. Fortunately, S-10 trim panels are rather cheap. I plan to buy a couple sets of A pillars and kick panels to try out a few things. Nothing good ever comes easy, I always try to substitute money for installation skills.

[DevilDriver 28]

Ok, getting really long. Give me an hour, or two, or a day. You've been patient enough; what's one more day?

[Flipx99 0]

Ok, getting really long. Give me an hour, or two, or a day. You've been patient enough; what's one more day?

Take as long as you need. You have been more than cool with me.

[///M5 2,833]

Yes in your situation I'd recommend going 2 way until you buy enough processing for a 3 way. A half done three way can easily be outdone by a well done 2 way. Of course, if we had more details on why you wanted to go 3 way in the first place it could change my answer.

It is more just to do it other than a failure on what I have now....

I think enhancing what I have now will be better than trying to throw $$ at something...

-----------------------------

Just trying to think of the best place to put this tweeter. Fortunately, S-10 trim panels are rather cheap. I plan to buy a couple sets of A pillars and kick panels to try out a few things. Nothing good ever comes easy, I always try to substitute money for installation skills.

Except fundamentally good 2 way drivers don't usually make good 3 way drivers. When a driver is optimized for an application using it outside that application typically has ramifications that aren't worthwhile. Obviously you are looking at this thinking that if you remove some of the frequencies that your drivers have to play you will reduce the stress on them, but in reality this isn't too much the case. Sure it will help a little bit, but finding a midbass driver that is only a midbass driver and you will have way better output in both volume and frequency response than if you use a midbass/midrange driver just for midbass.

To me, I'd either keep what you have or sell it all and start fresh. Adding another driver really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You also need real processing to do this and should get that first.

[Flipx99 0]

Yes in your situation I'd recommend going 2 way until you buy enough processing for a 3 way. A half done three way can easily be outdone by a well done 2 way. Of course, if we had more details on why you wanted to go 3 way in the first place it could change my answer.

It is more just to do it other than a failure on what I have now....

I think enhancing what I have now will be better than trying to throw $$ at something...

-----------------------------

Just trying to think of the best place to put this tweeter. Fortunately, S-10 trim panels are rather cheap. I plan to buy a couple sets of A pillars and kick panels to try out a few things. Nothing good ever comes easy, I always try to substitute money for installation skills.

Except fundamentally good 2 way drivers don't usually make good 3 way drivers. When a driver is optimized for an application using it outside that application typically has ramifications that aren't worthwhile. Obviously you are looking at this thinking that if you remove some of the frequencies that your drivers have to play you will reduce the stress on them, but in reality this isn't too much the case. Sure it will help a little bit, but finding a midbass driver that is only a midbass driver and you will have way better output in both volume and frequency response than if you use a midbass/midrange driver just for midbass.

To me, I'd either keep what you have or sell it all and start fresh. Adding another driver really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You also need real processing to do this and should get that first.

That answer has been staring me in the mirror for the long time....

Thanks for the tips on the midbass/midrange. Mine is designed to do both...I was just trying to "enhance" it.

[DevilDriver 28]

Here is a response I wrote, being driven by your question.

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/457

In your situation, I recommend option number 3 (detailed a little lower in the article). If I remember correctly, your original concern was that you were unhappy with your stage height and wanted to know if you could get better height and still have the tweeters in the kicks. The simple answer is yes. You can, but it will require careful positioning and some EQ trial and error. If you stick with the 2way design, you can move your tweeters up into the a-pillars and bring the stage up with it. You will want to cross them over as low as possible with as steep of a slope as possible, to avoid vertical localization cues coming from both the mid and the tweeter. By the way, I saw the install you were talking about with the tweeters way up high in the a-pillars: that's retarded. They should be much lower down in the a-pillars.

If go the 3 way route and you do move the midbass to the door, I wouldn't recommend crossing it over any higher than 400 Hz (and even that is pushing it a bit). Ideally, I think your existing mid in the doors crossed at 300 Hz, a 3" dedicated midrange driver in the kicks handling 300 Hz to 5/6 kHz, and your tweeter taking the top end in the a-pillar.

[Flipx99 0]

Here is a response I wrote, being driven by your question.

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/457

In your situation, I recommend option number 3 (detailed a little lower in the article). If I remember correctly, your original concern was that you were unhappy with your stage height and wanted to know if you could get better height and still have the tweeters in the kicks. The simple answer is yes. You can, but it will require careful positioning and some EQ trial and error. If you stick with the 2way design, you can move your tweeters up into the a-pillars and bring the stage up with it. You will want to cross them over as low as possible with as steep of a slope as possible, to avoid vertical localization cues coming from both the mid and the tweeter. By the way, I saw the install you were talking about with the tweeters way up high in the a-pillars: that's retarded. They should be much lower down in the a-pillars.

If go the 3 way route and you do move the midbass to the door, I wouldn't recommend crossing it over any higher than 400 Hz (and even that is pushing it a bit). Ideally, I think your existing mid in the doors crossed at 300 Hz, a 3" dedicated midrange driver in the kicks handling 300 Hz to 5/6 kHz, and your tweeter taking the top end in the a-pillar.

I am going to try choice #2 initially. I am just worried about the dash. The dash is quite plasticy.....perhaps this will give me a good reason to tweed my dash as I can install a could layers of ensolite to the dash to reduce those effects.

Will 2.2k be low enough?

[///M5 2,833]

Tweed away!! Ensolite will be your friend.

As for the 2.2kHz, I'd like to see lower but it may sound perfect. I thought the Cal27 could take a bit more on the low end than that.

[Flipx99 0]

Tweed away!! Ensolite will be your friend.

As for the 2.2kHz, I'd like to see lower but it may sound perfect. I thought the Cal27 could take a bit more on the low end than that.

2.2 is what the manual says....

Most minitruckers tweed because it's cool. I tweed for SQ....

[///M5 2,833]

I personally haven't played with a Cal27, but thought I understood they had much more down low. Any idea what the Fs is?

[Flipx99 0]

Doesn't say...

I get conflicting details.

One one hand it says "Frequency repsonse 1kHz to 30kHz...

On the other hand it says crossover 2.5 kHz.

I guess I start at 1k and move up until it sounds good?