New Sub in the Works

[sundownz 197]

Precision Econowind

They sound quite interesting, Jacob. I look forward to hearing more.

I am a little late to this thread, so what would the mounting depth of a 10 or 12 of the v3 design be then? I would love to have 1 killer 10 or 12 in my truck.

The 10" will come in at 7" depth, 12" a bit deeper

Well that definitely won't work for the titan bummer! Guess I will just stick with the CDT for now.

I am working on subs with less depth, no worries. The SD-1 v.2 10" model will be 5.25" deep... and it will go LOW sealed Stay tuned for that one.

Now that sounds interesting, I guess I could have all SD across the back like I currently have with eD. The CDT doesn't look like it will work either, if I build a box for a current SD-1 will the v.2 be able to drop in its place? I am actually pretty content with my dual SQ10s right now but I am trying something different since I needed a bigger amp to power my new front stage.

The SD-1 v.2 10" will need about 0.75 ft^3 sealed w/ a pound of polyfill. If your box is larger, no problem, they'll be fine with more... and fine with a tad less with more polyfill.

[bighitter 0]

Precision Econowind

They sound quite interesting, Jacob. I look forward to hearing more.

I am a little late to this thread, so what would the mounting depth of a 10 or 12 of the v3 design be then? I would love to have 1 killer 10 or 12 in my truck.

The 10" will come in at 7" depth, 12" a bit deeper

Well that definitely won't work for the titan bummer! Guess I will just stick with the CDT for now.

I am working on subs with less depth, no worries. The SD-1 v.2 10" model will be 5.25" deep... and it will go LOW sealed Stay tuned for that one.

Now that sounds interesting, I guess I could have all SD across the back like I currently have with eD. The CDT doesn't look like it will work either, if I build a box for a current SD-1 will the v.2 be able to drop in its place? I am actually pretty content with my dual SQ10s right now but I am trying something different since I needed a bigger amp to power my new front stage.

The SD-1 v.2 10" will need about 0.75 ft^3 sealed w/ a pound of polyfill. If your box is larger, no problem, they'll be fine with more... and fine with a tad less with more polyfill.

That is my current setup and I would like to do something similar it would probably only be able to work with 1 10" though.

[sundownz 197]

Before anyone else asks me... no, this is not the same sub as the following Elevation Audio woofer:

http://www.elevationaudio.com/getImage.php?id=104

1) Basket is the same... their back plate has similar dimensions but does not appear to have gap ventilation. I believe their surround is very similar, perhaps the same. This does not make the subs the same by any means. So... we have *two* parts that are the same, and one that looks similar from the side but isn't the same (back plate).

2) Their top plate looks most like my v.1 prototype @ 10mm height. The v.2 had a 12mm top plate. The v.3 is moving to a 20mm top plate.

3) The magnet stack *may* be the same height as v.1 and v.2 prototypes, can't say without measuring, but that is how it looks... v.3 is getting 10mm taller in the magnet department than v.1 and v.2 protos.

4) As an FYI... I changed 5 aspects of the motor from v.1 to v.2 prototypes and the only obviously visible external change was a 2mm increase in top plate height. The v.3 prototype is getting 5 more changes compared to the v.2 design... and will be around 1" deeper than the v.2 prototype... it is essentially a totally different motor, although the back plate will be the same as v.1 and v.2 versions.

5) Their voice coil is different than every version of the X speaker. It is a flat-wind coil... only the v.3 "X" woofer *may* have a flat-wind coil (this is pending), and it will be longer than the Elevation sub based on the specs I can find regarding their woofer.

... and none of us know their gap width, pole extension height, coil layers, degree of pole radius, etc, etc.

In short... not even close to the same sub. Shares about as many parts with Elevation as all of the 12-spoke basket subs with a 1/2" tall top plate and "RE Style" half-roll foam surround share with one another.

------

Anyhow... wanted to make that clear before someone decides to post that my speaker is a copy of Elevation Audio and ended up confusing people.

[DevilDriver 28]

Most people decide if things are the same by looking at the basket. Tsk, tsk. There's so much more to it than that. Keep the ball rolling, Jacob.

[sundownz 197]

Most people decide if things are the same by looking at the basket. Tsk, tsk. There's so much more to it than that. Keep the ball rolling, Jacob.

I simulated the new X12 v.3 motor design today in an FEA program to analyze my BL and flux behavior.

Based on my findings... might just stick with a round wire coil rather than flat wound on this design. Other than that, my graph paper sketch proved to be pretty close.

[platnum accord 0]

sad to hear that more improvements need to be made. is the nightshade going to be a usa made driver?

[sundownz 197]

sad to hear that more improvements need to be made. is the nightshade going to be a usa made driver?

Technically... the v.2 design was pretty good, other than needing a slightly wider gap. That design could have been sold with a gap adjustment and easily was able to handle 600 - 700 watts RMS. I wasn't happy with it's behavior at higher than rated power and x-max... and I had to lay down some QC specifics for the build house (minor stuff). To most people, it would have been considered a good driver except for needing a tiny bit wider gap... but it wasn't good enough for me.

Anyhow... v.3 should really do what I have in mind for this design I have much more ability to simulate the design now as well.

As for the Nightshade... lets just say I am planning interesting things for it. Final assembly will be in the USA for that one.

[platnum accord 0]

nice. well the x series come in any coil options? i bet this has been asked and shot down miserably because the idea was for a pair of them... cough cough... so will d4 be the only options? no dual 1's or 2's?

[sundownz 197]

nice. well the x series come in any coil options? i bet this has been asked and shot down miserably because the idea was for a pair of them... cough cough... so will d4 be the only options? no dual 1's or 2's?

D4 will be offered first. If demand is present I'll offer other options later on.

[platnum accord 0]

15?

[sundownz 197]

15?

Covered that one earlier

Yes, later.

No, I don't know when exactly.

[platnum accord 0]

how about now? lol

[Rickyharrisjr 0]

Most people decide if things are the same by looking at the basket. Tsk, tsk. There's so much more to it than that. Keep the ball rolling, Jacob.

I simulated the new X12 v.3 motor design today in an FEA program to analyze my BL and flux behavior.

Based on my findings... might just stick with a round wire coil rather than flat wound on this design. Other than that, my graph paper sketch proved to be pretty close.

Jacob,

If you ever need anything drawn in AutoCAD let me know.

[sundownz 197]

Most people decide if things are the same by looking at the basket. Tsk, tsk. There's so much more to it than that. Keep the ball rolling, Jacob.

I simulated the new X12 v.3 motor design today in an FEA program to analyze my BL and flux behavior.

Based on my findings... might just stick with a round wire coil rather than flat wound on this design. Other than that, my graph paper sketch proved to be pretty close.

Jacob,

If you ever need anything drawn in AutoCAD let me know.

Ricky,

That would rule... I edited your post a bit so the Feds won't track you down

[bose301s 1]

You still recommend SI subs for best SQ correct?

[sundownz 197]

You still recommend SI subs for best SQ correct?

Absolutely The Mag is pretty much #1 in my book for the SQ, and the new BM in the works is right up there with the Mag.

Most of the subs I'm working on will sound good, but SI subs tend to be more pure SQ with output as a secondary goal. This woofer in particular is designed for great output first with SQ second... it'll sound good but it's not made to be a Mag

[bose301s 1]

How will these compare to the old BMs that I have and the new 12" BMs coming out?

[sundownz 197]

How will these compare to the old BMs that I have and the new 12" BMs coming out?

There is no reason to compare the two, they are totally different.

The new BM is an excellent SQ driver by design. It isn't made to be hit with tremendous power as the suspension will reach the full 16mm of linear travel with very little power. It *needs* far less power than the old BM, although it can handle just as much thermally it will reach full x-max long before the old design would. When I listened to the new BM it was one of the best sounding subs I have listened to other than the Mag.

The old BM is a nice sub too... but the X series has a larger coil, more x-max, and thus costs more. It will be ahead of the old BM in most any category and should sound just about as good.

In case you missed the part about this woofer being upgraded tremendously due to the length of this thread -- compared to the initial prototypes, it is being completely changed and MSRP is going up a good bit from the original projection as my build cost has went up a great deal. The new design will handle 1000 watts RMS without issue... and that will likely be the rating, although, with the size of the coil and surrounding steel parts it will have the ability to handle much more than that.

[bose301s 1]

How will these compare to the old BMs that I have and the new 12" BMs coming out?

There is no reason to compare the two, they are totally different.

The new BM is an excellent SQ driver by design. It isn't made to be hit with tremendous power as the suspension will reach the full 16mm of linear travel with very little power. It *needs* far less power than the old BM, although it can handle just as much thermally it will reach full x-max long before the old design would. When I listened to the new BM it was one of the best sounding subs I have listened to other than the Mag.

The old BM is a nice sub too... but the X series has a larger coil, more x-max, and thus costs more. It will be ahead of the old BM in most any category and should sound just about as good.

In case you missed the part about this woofer being upgraded tremendously due to the length of this thread -- compared to the initial prototypes, it is being completely changed and MSRP is going up a good bit from the original projection as my build cost has went up a great deal. The new design will handle 1000 watts RMS without issue... and that will likely be the rating, although, with the size of the coil and surrounding steel parts it will have the ability to handle much more than that.

Ok, sounds good. Basically you're saying the BM is more SQ oriented and the X is more SPL but both are able to handling either SQ or SPL applications. BTW< I was just wondering as I absolutely love my sibs and think they sound great and hit extremely hard.

Edited September 5, 2007 by bose301s

[sundownz 197]

Ok, sounds good. Basically you're saying the BM is more SQ oriented and the X is more SPL but both are able to handling either SQ or SPL applications. BTW< I was just wondering as I absolutely love my sibs and think they sound great and hit extremely hard.

Yah, thats about right

[sundownz 197]

Little teaser... simulated BL curve for the v.3 prototype.

23.84 mm Linear x-max by 70% BL method.

[JimJ 11]

You still recommend SI subs for best SQ correct?

I don't know, I still think the Aura NS/MR series give the Mags some serious competition

Not comparable in price or customer service, though...

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Had no idea you were going to change the sub enough to bump up power handling to 1k.

[sundownz 197]

Had no idea you were going to change the sub enough to bump up power handling to 1k.

In order to get to where I REALLY wanted to be with this sub thats the way it went. I wanted to make it pretty much bulletproof when a pair is attached to an SAZ-1500D

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Had no idea you were going to change the sub enough to bump up power handling to 1k.

In order to get to where I REALLY wanted to be with this sub thats the way it went. I wanted to make it pretty much bulletproof when a pair is attached to an SAZ-1500D