altoncustomtech

It's fine, I sure don't mind. Sundown SAX-125.2

Actually the left and right seperation is fairly good. Imaging isn't bad at all, just that the stage height is a bit low and I honestly expected it to be worse than it is. Most of the music sounds like it's coming right from the middle of the dash board with the occasional instrument seeming to be just below the dash. Imaging as far as instrument, sound and singer locations seems appropriately wide for the width of the truck itself. Most of the time you can pick out musician and instrument placements. Like I said, it's not bad considering the lackluster placement. Yes it has factory 4x6 tweeter plates in the dash. The tweeters were WAY too bright up there and bouncing off the windshield. The door placements and off axis angle was the best compromise I got for the tweeter placement. At least to my ears.

It's just a passive 2-way set. Here's a link to a test report on the set, although the ones in the test report are an earlier/later version than the ones I have. If I had the set in the review I don't think I'd have so much of an issue as it had a much better passive crossover included with it. Otherwise the drivers are the same except for mine have the phase plug, as best I can tell. Yes, I'll include pics at the end of this reply. Yes stock location for the mids, the tweeter is about 4" above it mounted in the door card. I'm definitely planning on testing them all seperately. I figured since the signal generator can cover everything from 1-500Khz that testing each driver within it's audible range should be pretty easy. Can you give some details on what I should be listening for other than the shrieking response I hear when listening to music? Pictures will be at the end of the reply. I can EQ out up to 2khz on the PEQ built into the HU and with the Q set to .5 (widest setting) and the adjustment all the way down (-8db) it doesn't make quite a big enough difference in the anomaly I'm hearing compared to the detriment it causes to everything else. With the PEQ set to 1.5khz and 1khz it makes no difference at all which is why I was thinking it was closer to 4 or 5k. I could very easily make a diffraction ring and try that out. I had thoughts about doing that exact thing but wasn't sure if the cardboard would even work at all. Here's the pics of the components in their places. They're mounted in some heavy duty baffles. The doors are nearly fully deadened, all they're missing is the MLV. Thanks for all the help guys. Let me know what other info you need. Got lots of pictures if you need more.

BM = Brick & Mortor I think. He's referring to the fact you'll pay more for the Havoc because it's a dealer based product than you will for something VERY close to it from an internet only brand like Fi or SSA. The BL will have more output per watt applied than the Q in almost any scenario. It will still sound fantastic tho and is the better choice for a person who's looking for something that gets loud AND sounds good. There's been several people who've bought the Q's, didn't get the output they were wanting and ended up destroying the sub trying to get to that point when a BL would have sounded just as good and gotten them the output they wanted in the first place. That's basically why the BL is recommended over the Q just about any time someone asks about one over the other.

^^^ My thoughts exactly. If it's an enclosure issue it's due to leaks, port placement (sub loading issue), or placement in the vehicle causing cancellations. Check where the subs mount and all the seams of the enclosure for leaks. Watch the movement of the subs and see if one or the other are doing something odd during it's travel compared to the other. Move the box around a little, flip it one way or the other, etc. and see how it affects the response.

I would like to toss the idea of using a DCON out there for you. It's rated for less power than you've originally planned on using but offers fantastic sound and surprising output. It's a cheaper sub than your other options and if the enclosure is built properly, when your budget allows it, you could buy the ICON or something of the like and sell the DCON.

I'm glad you guys had a good time!!! Tho it looks like Shiz and Senchez had a little too good a time, lol. Sure wish I could have been there guys, I really do. Work has kept me insanely busy the last few weeks and it doesn't look like it's going to let up for another week or two. One good way to look at it is the extra overtime $$$ for the upcoming Christmas season. Missed you coming by for burgers or steaks Steve, or anyone else for that matter. If any you make it back this way again sometime in the future maybe we can make the plans a bit firmer. We'll grill out, get the quads and go-karts out and tear up the yard and trails, lol.

Even though the doubling of power MAY yield 3dB more output in a perfect world it surely won't in the real world. Losses such as power compression and impedance rise alone will reduce that effective difference. Adding power is the least efficient way of gaining output. My bets are on the box not being quite right. OR the wiring to the subs isn't correct. OP, have you verified for certain they're wired correctly and in the same phase? Remove the wires from the amp and touch a 9V battery to them for a moment. They should move the same amount and the same direction. If they do then your box has some leaks or a problem with it's placement causing cancellation (high on my list due to the differences in output at varied frequencies according to your report). If they don't then you have one wired cancelling itself out or the other sub out. It's a good quick way of testing that just to be certain its not an issue. My money is still on the box tho.

The one I told you about is on my laptop at work. I'll post it up as soon as I get back to work tomorrow.

A member on here named jroadtatts put 12" midbasses in the doors of his Honda (a Civic maybe, can't remember for sure). Looks plenty good and delivers "EPIC" midbass, or at least that was his goal. I've yet to hear it in person but have no doubts the midbass in that car is indeed "EPIC". I think anyone could make a 10 or 12 look very good in pretty much any vehicle if they took the time to plan ahead and work carefully to achieve that goal. I can understand that if you weren't looking to put that much work or money into it that settling with the 8's would very likely be much cheaper and easier, but it seems like it sure would be hard for 8's to achieve the same output and response that the larger drivers could offer. That's just my thought on the subject. I know if I were to undertake such a project I would be looking at the larger size drivers.

Happy Birthday dude! Ah, yeah, I remember when I was 25. Good times, good times.

to the forum!

I love how I can always count on your experience to ruin a moment, lol. I'm only teasing. I've had NO experience with any of HiVi's drivers at all and am glad to see your response to this. Not that I'll probably ever have the nearly $500 to spare and buy the set, but it saves me from ever having to worry about it. I sure wish I had some of the knowledge and experience you have. I think it might make some of the idea's, thoughts, and other audio subject matter that floats around in my head a fair bit less foggy. I've done quite a bit of study and reading on many subjects in the audio engineering field but have only a general understanding of the majority of what I've read.

I've never had any personal experience with it, but I'd love to. May have found a new set of speakers to play with.

BUMP Can't believe this stuff isn't selling.

Holy crap. My ass failed on this one. Now I know why you were calling confused last night. I forgot to include the cutout on the front of the enclosure and forgot to include the three pieces it takes to do the recess for the subs in the cuts. Damn dude, I'm sorry. Got in too much of a hurry.

Well, we'll try this again. Cutsheets, or something similar.

Actually, when inverting any speaker to keep it in phase with the rest the polarity needs to be inverted, as you stated there for two subs in one enclosure with only one inverted. Wouldn't you want to invert the signal on both subs when both are inverted so that the subs and the speakers in the front are all running the same polarity to keep from having cancellation in the frequencies they'll share?

That was awesome. Love watching the DCON's in action. What are they wired down to?

Oh shit. It's no problem man, take care of business. I also want to say thank you for your help so far as well, it's handy having someone double check things and stuff like that.

Okay, I talked to Kody on the phone for a bit yesterday. It seems he got a little overzealous with his measurements, LOL. His width and depth were good but he was off on the measurement for the height. The truck has a tremendous hump in the center of the cab which from the picture he sent me is the majority of the width of the rear of the cab and tapers down at an angle all the way across it except for the very center which is a typical driveline hump. From the floor to the bottom of the window ledge he's actually only got 28" and at the top of the hump it's only 24". So as you can imagine that blows the volume figures all to crap. I did some quick math with the 11x5 D x 46 W x 24 H and got a respectable 3.73cuft gross. So I designed a quick enclosure similar to the original that utilized the entire depth he had except for a 1.5" indentation that would be just large enough for the pair of subs. When it's all said and done my math came up with a 2.7cuft NET enclosure tuned to 32 with 24sqin port area. Anyone who's willing to look and see if you can run the math to see how close it is. With all the angles, weird cuts and everything else it's going to be a bit of a pain to build but should work well if the numbers are solid. He said he's fine with a tuning up to 35hz if the tuning is a bit off too. Here's a few pictures so it can be visualized.

It's no problem, no problem at all. It's just funny, work doesn't have much issue doing a little thing here or there like a drawing in Sketchup or chattin online from time to time, but personal phone calls during the day are very frowned upon, lol. Go figure.

Yeah I got it.... I'll give you a call as soon as I'm off work here at 5:30.

Okay, here we go with cutsheets, or something similar anyway. I'll start with the BRACE. Here's the SIDES. Here's the bottom, the very bottom of the board will need to measure 8.75" with a 10 degree angle cut on the front for the baffle to mount to. Here's the top, again the very bottom measurement of the board will need to measure 2.75" with the 10 degree angle on the front for the front of the enclosure. Here's the rear of the enclosure. Here's the front, it will need to measure 36" with the 10 degree angle cut the same direction on both ends. Like a parallelogram. Finally here's the two internal port walls. Look it over closely guys, I could have messed up a figure on a measurement pretty easy as fast as I went through this thing.

It's built to spec for sure, the specifics were in Quinten's post on the design, below. I went with the design for the C4, 3.88cuft tuned to about 29hz.