altoncustomtech

My thoughts exactly on the 10 and the 12. I think I can see the line where the dust cap goes, and if so, there's almost no cone area at all on the 10 and little on the 12.

Wanted to add though, I remember CA&E doing a blind listening test with a tube amp, class d, class a/b, and a class T (or G, been a LONG time since I read it). All connected to the same source and speakers with a switch for the listener to switch between each one. The results were surprising in that everyone could consistently hear a "difference", although it was very slight and only the better trained listeners really noticed it. However that difference was finally attributed mostly to the front-end or input stage differences of the class d, a/b and t amps than anything else as it was measurable later in a lab. As far as listening tastes, especially at higher volumes, everyone liked the tube amp the best. The reasoning for that is the difference in how distortion works between a transistor and a tube. That's if I remember that article correctly.

Technically speaking, there's no difference in sound at all. In the early days of class D, full range amps were full of problems with upper end response that's true. The class D amps had to switch on and off (digital signal) at super high frequencies to get smooth high frequency output. Thats because it takes double (or more) on the digital signal to produce the equivalent output frequency (i.e. to produce a 10khz output frequency the amp would need a digital signal frequency of at LEAST 20khz). At least I think that's how I remember reading that. Though today's full range class D amps are VERY commonplace and those limitations are gone with any amp that's worthwhile. Now the SAX-125.4 is new, so very few can speak to their use of it, but I would imagine it's perfectly fine.

I'm not sure but I would venture to guess that the v2 like the v1,v1.5 doesn't do very well in a sealed enclosure. You're simply asking more from it than it's capable of giving with how you're trying to use it. Build a good .6cuft ported enclosure for it with a good amount of port area and I'll bet you'll get much better results. Speakerz iz dum, dey only do whut u tell 'em to do. You also have to realize, it's not a 15, not a 12, not even a 10. You're simply expecting wayyy more from it than it's capable of doing, especially with the enclosure it's in IMHO.

to the forum! All I have to ask about your idea there is, are you sure you have enough width to get four 15's in the trunk of that car with the correct air space for each and not have them stifled? If so, then I think your build idea with them on each side will look really good. I know those cars have ridiculously large trunks, but four 15's should need at least 14cuft of enclosure space. I looked at DB Drive's website and they list 2.66cuft for those 15's which seems absolutely absurd to me. I know of quite a few 12's that need space in that range to operate properly, it's hard to imagine 15's could and still sound right. I'd run some numbers and see what the T/S specs say would work best and see if that will fit in the car. I think the manufacturer has listed a super small enclosure size to make it more appealing to people since the vast majority of people hate giving up any more space than they have to. You may be much better off looking into 12's if you're wanting to do four subs.

Happy birthday brother!!!!

to the forum! That's quite a build plan. I look forward to seeing it's progress.

I love the premise of your rebuild. I'd love to be able to give some suggestions but I simply have no experience with which to do so. I can say for certain I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out no matter what direction you end up going with it.

Just a quick little update here. Work and my wife have had me running like there's no tomorrow so I've not had the free time to devote to properly checking everything out. I was able to take a few minutes and run signals through the whole setup as it sits right now and found the worst of the harshness centers around 3.3khz and starts and ends at 2.4khz and 4.2khz respectively. I've not had a chance to check each driver individually or play with phasing on this issue, but as soon as someone allows me to breath I'm jumping right on it. As it is I went through and played with the EQ a bit more and was able to tame it down to very respectable levels. It's only bad on certain (and worst on badly recorded/compressed digital music) songs now. As it sits now the EQ is as follows: BASS - 100Hz center, Q is 1.0 and level is -1 MID - 2khz center, Q is 1.0 and level is -3 HIGH - 12.5khz center and level is 0 Stefan, I'm also going to be trying the diffraction ring as well since I can knock that out very quickly. I'll see what, if any, kind of difference it makes. Sometimes I really wish there were more hours in the day and weekends were longer. Between work and family finding time to finish the enclosure for the xcon and fix this issue has been a complete crap shoot.

Alright. I've got to get this perfect. I'm LOVING the Bravox CS60K's. The output, mid-bass authority, and overall quality of sound is fantastic. They're truly a great set for the price I paid. The problem I'm running into with them is very common with speakers/components in their price range however and that is either beaming or break-up. Not sure exactly what the difference is just yet, though I do have a pretty good idea, but somewhere in the 4k area it's almost ear piercing on CERTAIN songs. It seems some of the songs have a lot of material in that range 2-5k that just causes them to nearly make your ears bleed, or so it feels. Then other songs couldn't be smoother or better balanced on the set. That's leaving me really wanting to see if I can tame them down a little. I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about doing so without replacing the set (just yet) and I have figured a few ideas, but thought I would ask here to see what the best option is. ///M5, I know you'll have input here and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you have to say on the subject. Would it be easier to build a passive filter to flatten the response, or could I use a processor like the Alpine PXE-H650 (found a used one in perfect condition for half of new price), or would the miniDSP work to achieve what I'm looking for? I'm planning on taking the signal generator we have at work to pinpoint the exact frequency(s) that's being so brutal, but once I have it I need to UNDERSTAND what to do with it and what that best course of action would be. Obviously correct placement, orientation and installation is the best first step but lets be honest here. I'm still learning, still gaining experience and considering the amount of time it's taken to get this much done in my Jimmy so far, starting over from scratch for the best possible installation is really just not the best option for me. At least not yet, so I'm looking at spending a little time and extra money to do the job from this point. While the most important thing in this little topic is to tame that middle range response, an option with time alignment to help center up and lift the stage wouldn't be bad either. Another reason I'm looking at that Alpine. Like I said, they do pretty good in their current placement and installation, but I KNOW they could be just a bit better. I'm trying to stay under $200 which I know will make it super difficult to find a great solution, but buying used is a fine option as well. Beaming or break-up? Caused by a dip/peak in impedance at that frequency no? I know it's a problem and why different size and configured drivers can only be crossed so high before it becomes an issue. I'm just trying to figure out a solution that doesn't include brand new drivers in a new installation, a $600 processor, or both.

Well, got the DCON 15 from SDeyoung last week, but I was out of town. Had one of the guys I work with open and check it out upon arrival for me and since I didn't get back to work until this morning I couldn't get my hands on it. Got here this morning and was VERY surprised and pleased to see how it was packaged. I think it could be thrown from the roof and not suffer any damage (not trying it though). It arrived in perfect condition, now I just need to find a use for it, lol. That's right, I bought it without really needing it but for the price I didn't really want to pass it up. I have evil plans of building a high cone area, low powered C pillar wall build in a '98 Blazer project vehicle I picked up for $500. Don't know for sure if that will ever come to light, but this was where I wanted to go with the subs should it happen, so I've picked up 1 of the 4 essentially for a good bit cheaper than a new one. Otherwise I may just do some enclosure experimentation with it. Either way it was a good grab at a good price. So, onto the pics... if nothing else than just for the fun of it, lol! So... Now I just need to finish the enclosure for the Jimmy and then I can turn my attention to playing around with this.... Thanks again for the speedy shipping and attention to care on the packaging Sean!!

I agree. Wouldn't spend the money on something unless I know for certain I need it, you should do the same. Also, you really need to think about what you're asking. 2 or 3dB really is about all the difference you could get from doubling the power and that's in a perfect world. For daily listening, do you really listen to it cranked up ALL the time? I listen to mine in the 1/2 to 3/4 of full area most of the time and knowing that couldn't justify having spending any big money for that little bit of gain. Sure, if you were chasing numbers, or otherwise needing every last drop of dB you can squeeze out of it doing so would make sense. Considering things like power compression and amplifier efficiency will limit the difference it will really make.

I think even the AQ750 would work very well for you since you're not planning on adding a second sub in the future. Anything with a decently respectable name will do for the job though. I really like the idea of those Boston amps as well, I've always liked them.

Awesome dude!

I'm pretty sure they don't own Boston, but the question you just asked is just another reason I'm no longer a fan of their products. In comparison to what MB Quart was before Maxxsonics bought them, they've been ruined, but to answer your question the products are tiered with MBQ on top, Autotek, Hifonics and Crunch. That was explained to me by one of their "engineers" named John who I talked to at length for quite some time before I discovered the forum and right before they acquired MBQ. The guy even promised they wouldn't change anything about MBQ and we all have seen how that worked out.

That's fine with me, I'm not picky about that sort of stuff. I'll definitely let you know and Thank You!

I agree with the others, if you're on a tight budget you're best off to try it, watch your voltage and upgrade accordingly instead of spending money on items you MAY not need. FWIW I've been very happy with my 250A Singer alt since I got it, though I've not really put it through it's paces yet.

I like your approach to the build. Definitely taking your time to think the process through instead of just throwing the stuff in. Not sure how the specs on the enclosure turned out, but I love the determination you showed to shoehorn that sub under that seat, lol. With all the trouble you went through on the installation of the sound deadening and such I would have figured you would have tossed the flimsy plastic on the doors for some better, custom made wood ones and give your mids something something really solid to mount to. That is about the only thing I can see that I would definitely have done different myself. Keep up the great work on this truck, it's sweet!

Money has been sent. You have an email also with the shipping address, just in case PayPal sent you the wrong one.

Dude. I'll take the last 15" DCON.

I think it would be easier than the test tones. I can move up and down in frequency very quickly and easily with it's dial. So if I find something odd it will be much easier than moving forward and back in tracks and therefore quicker. Also it adjusts by 1hz at a time through 4 ranges from 20-20000hz which allows for accuracy at speed. It's also a precision instrument that will maintain the exact same level of output throughout that range which will help ensure I don't get anything out of whack from one octave to another. I can't help but question the accuracy of the majority of test tones that are free to download in that regard. Besides that it's no harder to hook up than anything else. As for the crossover, yeah it's of the very basic variety. I would imagine that considering I am planning on running the set passive it made sense to leave it in the chain, but I wanted to be sure. Oh me too. Him and I have talked at length over the last few years about that ride. I don't recall him mentioning any problems with the stage in that setup. I don't think they play high enough and he has things level matched really well so as not to affect much in the way of staging. One of these days I'll get a chance to demo that thing tho.

Oh I'm not planning on doing ANYTHING at all yet in that regard. My purpose behind the topic is to gain some insight and information on how to go about solving the problem and fully understand the need to identify the root cause of the problem and that only then can any recommendations be made as to the solution. I've been here long enough to understand that much for certain. As soon as work gives me a few free minutes me and that signal generator are going to see what and where things get hairy. Hopefully with a detailed report from what I find the problem can be identified and an appropriate solution found. Again, thank you guys for your help with this. I'm hoping that the information and such will be able to help others as well. ///M5, would you recommend connecting the signal generator to the inputs on the amp and disconnecting/reconnecting the drivers as I test them individually and together so that the amp and passive crossovers are in the chain so that I get the full picture or should I connect it without each of those as well. I'm not sure how much voltage output the generator provides or if it's enough to get any real volume connected to the drivers alone.

Before permanently mounting the drivers I placed them in every possible mounting location and listened to it for about a week (while playing with wiring phase and EQ adjustments) in each location before moving them and finally deciding that just above the mid was the best location. That listening test included the sail panels as there is enough room there to mount them. Given that I did that test with them as a passive set I think you're right that I would likely need to be operating the set active to possibly get the best response from the current OR other mounting locations. You're also right that I'm looking at and moving slowly to doing an active setup. However I'm looking more at doing a big mid-bass and full range type two way active setup, much like jroadtatts did in his Honda, when I finally feel I have enough information and experience under my belt to attempt such an undertaking.

I agree, I'd prefer not to have a couple of those monster sized EQ's in my truck, there's no room, LOL. Which is why I figured a DSP is the way to go and yeah I'm after as near perfect as I can get with the current setup and it's really pretty darn good to me. I definitely get a lot of great comments from the people I show it off to, most of which center around the "I can't believe it sounds this good" or "I never thought that song could sound so good in a car" type of comments. Driver placement is a tough one in my Jimmy and I can't imagine it's much easier in your truck. There's just no damn room in mine to get them in optimal locations.

I'll do so and report back here what I've noticed.