altoncustomtech

If you have 13" depth available like you first mentioned then you wouldn't have to squeeze the 12" PR in, it will fit easily enough. Parts Express has a 12" Dayton Audio PR available for $34 which isn't too shabby, though I'm not sure how good those are as I have absolutely no experience with those. Getting a little pricier Online Car Stereo has this Boston Acoustics 12" PR for $55 and I can imagine it would perform exactly like you need it to and it can be tuned from the front by removing the dust cap which makes it a fair bit handier than most. Fi doesn't post the prices on the website but they can build you a 12" PR for $90 which is much pricier than you're wanting to go I'm sure. Like was mentioned earlier Sundown makes PR's as well and theirs would match your SA10, but again the prices for those aren't readily available anywhere and you'll have to email Sundown for that. Considering you can pick up a 4" Aeroport from PartsExpress for $14 the PR's are definitely more expensive however that brings about a common point that we stress here alot, car audio is all about compromise. The automobile is the most horrible, hard to compensate for, difficult to control environment a person can choose to put audio equipment in and even more so to put that equipment in and expect it to reproduce music faithfully and do it well. Even for something as simple as your sub enclosure you'll have to compromise between being stuck with a sealed enclosure and it's limited response and output, taking a chance on port noise and/or loading issues but most likely getting the response and output you're trying to find, or spend all the extra money on a more expensive PR setup that should yield the response you are wanting without the other issues of trying to stuff the port in the enclosure. We can give you all the information we can to help you make an educated decision but ultimately the decision on which compromises you can live with will be yours.

The RE calculator is often times WAY off, and this is definitely one of them. There's no way to fit that port in your max 8x13x33 dimensions you posted in the first post of this thread, let alone 8x13.5x29. The calculator doesn't calculate many things right, nor does it account for the displacement of the sub. 13sqin of port area isn't a great amount of port area, it's about the same as a 4" aeroport but without the flares to help reduce port noise.

You didn't post the price you're looking to buy the amp at, so it's hard to recommend you anything else at that price. In my experience it's going to be very hard to find many amps better than the Hifonics for the same or lower price unless you found something used, and you should look and consider that route. There's some really nice used equipment that comes up for sale, you should take advantage of it if there's something that fits the bill. I think the enclosure I posted is about as optimal as it can get, and I'm sure others can chime in if they know a design that would be better. Port area can be increased which could possibly gain a little more output, but it's far too dependent on so many other factors to say with absolute certainty. Can you fit the 18.5" Depth? If not what are your maximum dimensions? We'll help you get it as optimal as possible, but I'm sure if you've never owned a sub of this caliber before you're in for a treat no matter what. Also, getting maximum loudness from the sub is dependent on many of those other factors as well, there's no way for us to say "do this and it will give you the maximum output". The maximum output is dependent on things such as the size of the vehicle it's going in, orientation, power applied, tuning, the vehicles resonant frequency, etc., etc., etc., as well as the enclosure itself. There's just no way to know what's going to give you maximum output without an SPL meter and a lot of testing. The difference between a slot port and an aero port is pretty obvious and can easily be found and identified with a little searching on the web. To put it simply, an aero port is a round tube, like PVC pipe with flared fittings on each end. A slot port is a rectangular shaped port that is most often incorporated into the structure of the enclosure at one end utilizing the walls of the enclosure for three of it's sides typically the side, top and bottom, or in the middle utilizing two, typically the top and bottom. The enclosure I posted above is a typical slot ported enclosure with the port at one end.

If that's for a single 12 that box at 30x30x15 will be WAY bigger than needed for the sub. For a 2.5cuft NET enclosure tuned to 34hz the outside dimensions will be 30" W x 18.5" D x 15" H (assuming those were your intended width and height) with a 3" wide port. This is more like what you're needing to look at doing.

That definitely looks familiar. tac2137 is the friend who referred you? He asked me about that enclosure back just after Christmas. With that enclosure, the SA12's, and that SAZ1500 I find it hard to see any way that you'll have a problem with the quality of reproduction or the output. I think you're in good shape.

to the forum! I agree with Aaron, you've come to the right place.

I don't think you should be worried about buying the Sundown subs. Worse can be bought for more money but very few better can be bought for less. The SA series subs have proven themselves and earned their salt in the competition world and many customers are just as happy with the quality of their sound as they are their output. If I were going to suggest other subs to look at it would be the SSA GCON and the Fi X series subs. You'll pay a little bit more and wait a little longer for the SSA and Fi subs but they're 100% hand built here the US and are unmatched quality for the money IMHO. You're not going to go wrong with any of them, so don't fret about the money you're spending, you're in good hands. As for the enclosure, you need a good design to build yourself. If you don't already have one then we can help you with that as well. No matter what subs you decide to go with, including the Type R's, the enclosure is what will decide how well they perform. I almost want to recommend getting the R's and get you a kick ass enclosure design for them so you can rub it in his face, lol, but I won't. Stick with the plan you're working on so far, it will work out for you.

I'm currently working on a PR setup myself. I'll be using a 10" XCON with a pair of matching 10" passive radiators. A few notes I've learned in the process of getting ready to do the setup. Passive radiators are tuned like a ported enclosure by adding or removing weights to the back of the cone. They offer the great low end extension of ported enclosure without the problems that can be associated like port noise or compression. One major drawback is that like a ported enclosure the driver will "unload" below the tuning frequency but will do so much faster with the PR so tuning your SSF (sub sonic filter) is even more important. The cone area of the passive radiator needs to be greater than that of the driver. You've got one 10" SA10 so you'll need at least either a 12" passive radiator or a pair of 10" PR's to get the full benefit of using a PR in the first place. It's not a good idea to mount the PR's facing upward. If your vehicle requires that arrangement then you should reconsider finding a way to port the enclosure. The initial tuning weight of the PR is calculated by taking the PR's Sd (cone area) as the port diameter and calculating the equivalent port length. Then calculate the volume of that port and figure the mass or weight of the air. Passive radiators are a little more complicated to figure for and are a little more expensive (compare the cost of a PR to a port tube) but are a great solution to utilizing a subwoofer in an application that won't allow for a proper ported enclosure or where the port's length is too much trouble to stuff into it. If you can and decide to use a passive radiator setup, we're here to help. Same as we are with the standard ported enclosure.

These kind of comparison threads won't do you any good. You're talking about two completely different setups in two completely different cars, there's no real comparison to either unless you're talking numbers on a meter. FYI it makes a HUGE difference on what cars and enclosures they're in. Now, given the quality of the Sundown subs and the fact they'll be in a custom built enclosure that's to specifications (or close enough) on a higher quality amp I'm sure they'll perform very well, get plenty loud and sound very good. Given that your buddies setup is two prefab boxes of different types with a cheaper amp and in the trunk of a car with half the seat down I can imagine he's having response and cancellation issues amongst a multitude of other smaller issues that are giving the lackluster performance. The enclosure determines ~90% of the performance you'll get from a sub. Put one of his Alpines in the proper enclosure and compare it to one of the SA12's and the playing field would be a little more even, but only a little. There's so many variables to consider when comparing stuff like this and if everything isn't apples to apples then the comparison doesn't have any real value. Be confident that your intended setup, by all the information you provided and just doing a quick and dirty estimate, should easily outperform your buddies setup. That by no means is a guarantee, nor is it scientifically based on facts, it's just an opinion.

Duh, don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. I'm 100% on board with the passive radiator suggestion. Basically all the benefits of a ported enclosure with no port at all.

I love that analogy, lol. However, 1cuft is not overly large for a 10 sealed, and on the low end of the recommended scale by Kicker for the CVR's. The DCON's optimal sealed enclosure size .9cuft and Kicker recommends from .8cuft to 3cuft. WinISD verifies the CVR likes the larger 3cuft for a Q of .7 and a good smooth response. The Sundown E10 is another story though, as Sundown recommends .5cuft, but the response doesn't vary a great deal in WinISD from .5cuft to 1cuft to 2cuft. The problem for any of them in the larger sealed enclosures is the XMAX and it does run out of XMAX pretty fast in an enclosure larger than .5cuft. The DCON doesn't run out of steam until a little under 32hz, and the Kicker runs out of steam WAY before the other two. I don't know if ISD just doesn't like the math (Kicker doesn't post any of the important T/S parameters) or if it's really that limited. I'm not sure how accurate the ISD excursion plots are either, so that all needs taken with a grain of salt. It does give an idea of how things look and from what I see the Kickers are running out of steam at ~61hz, the DCON runs out of steam at ~30hz and the E10 at ~45hz in 1cuft enclosures. The E10 can get to about 25hz in .5cuft before reaching it's XMAX limits. All those are taken with 400watts as the signal power, that changes with less power applied of course. I do agree, there's plenty of 12's out there that would be at home in 1 cuft sealed enclosures. If the boxes are wide enough to support the cutout for a 12" sub it's a direction that the OP could go and actually get some gain in output.

I would definitely use some sort of bracing, no matter the orientation. Some 1.5" dowel rods or 2x2's will do great for bracing and not use up enough internal space to affect tuning any noticeable amount. For example, three 2x2 braces, two at 21 inches long to brace top to bottom, one at 19.75 to brace front to back on one side of the sub only take up .142cuft of internal space. Dowel rods would be a little less than that. With 7cuft of space that .142 just won't make any noticeable difference.

Here's what it could look like with a the port with two 90's turning back inside the enclosure. Keep in mind these are really quick and simple drawings. I don't readily have all the dimension info for the aeroports handy, nor do I know for certain the bend radius of any 4" elbows that will fit the aeroport tubes. The purpose is just to show that it may not completely impossible to achieve what you're wanting to do. You will have to do extra measurements and such to be certain.

I took all the info you posted and drew up a quick rendering of what it was you're trying to do. You're right, the port will interfere with the sub, as you should be able to see in the drawing. Now, I put two sub cutouts on it so you could see each end of the port and it's relationship to the cutout. You should be able to put two 90 degree bends together and turn the port 180 back on itself inside the enclosure and fit the length you need to get your 33hz tune AND clear the sub. I'm drawing that up right now. Here's a quick drawing of your current scenario.

Probably not much. Is there any stuffing/polyfill in the boxes now? You might try going that route and seeing how it helps. Generally to increase bottom end response in a sealed enclosure you need a larger sealed enclosure. The trade off will be a bit of a dip in the upper end response, but car audio is all about compromises. The polyfill can help, get some pillow stuffing from Wally World and start with about 1/2 pound in each and see how it sounds. I wouldn't go more than 1 pound in each though.

I agree. There's just not going to be a real noticeable difference in output just changing the subs out, period. Without changing something else you're just going to piss money away. Do not opt for the Skar and there's so many reasons why you shouldn't, just do a quick search. If you're dead set on blowing some cash on new subs the Sundown E10's wouldn't be a bad way to spend it, nor would a pair of DCON 10's. It will be a waste of money though as we've tried to tell you "YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HEAR ANY REAL DIFFERENCE!" If you don't believe us, model the subs in WinISD all in the same 1.2cuft enclosures with the same power applied and you'll see our point.

Yes, it is an 11 1/8" cutout. Which will make it a tad tight, then just sand to trim it down to fit nice and tight.

AMEN brotha! Lol, very very informative. I think you did an amazing job spelling out every step, explaining it in enough detail to get the step across without making it too lengthy, and covered everything from beginning to end. Amazing job dude.

Finally got this thread to load again, lol. Yeah I'd be glad to help you out. Post up the max dims you can work with and other information like the orientation you prefer (sub up, port back, etc), double baffle yes/no, things of that sort and we'll get after it. You're going to love the XCON's, I'm sure of it. I've not had a chance to listen to mine yet, but I've yet to hear a bad word about them.

Definitely not an HD. From all the pictures I've looked at on a few generations of their subs it's either a DX or an XD series. Really hard to tell the difference without a better look at the motor or a look at the cone. One thing is absolutely certain, no matter which series it is a pair of them is sure as hell not worth $400. I've found several stores online that they start at <$100 and found the DX for as low as $60. $400 is a ripoff artists dream come true.

From the pictures I found online it looks to be a DX series. Every series above that seems to have cast aluminum frames on them, that one looks like stamped steel. Like you said, it could be an older version or something, but all the pictures I can find the DX is the only series that has that frame so far.

You're missing so much on the low end with tuning that high. You're right on the cone area, but I think we can find you a happy medium for two 12's. Two 10's would work really good in that space but you'd lose a fair amount of cone area doing so. As I mentioned before something like the Q's can fit in that much space. They may be a little peakier in the smaller size (still at the Fi's recommended minimum though) and a little light on port area but they would probably still sound much better than the Opti's as the enclosure tuning I figured for was 32hz. You're also not mentioning probably the best fit for what you're doing, the SSD. They'll handle the amps thermally, especially with the cooling option, have the same basic enclosure size recommendations as the Q does, and they can be bought several dollars cheaper than the Q, almost approaching the SA12 in price. Two of the SSD's could fit in that enclosure size restrictions with 3.6cuft NET volume and 54sqin of port area tuned to 32hz. I like the SSD's for your application the best.

I currently have two lanzar opti 1232D in my car so Idk why u think two 12s wont fit And my max height dimension are 14", why would u say get a 15? lol At this point you've not mentioned the configuration of the enclosure you would be using, the 15 would work in that enclosure in a sub up, port forward/rear configuration. You may have two twelves in that size enclosure now, and that size may be optimal for the Opti's but it won't be optimal for the Fi Q's or ICON's. They can be shoehorned into an enclosure that size but the response will be peakier and the port will be a good deal smaller than it should be. The SA's are more suited to that size enclosure according to Sundown's specifications. The real question is why are you wanting to upgrade? What about the Lanzars isn't making you happy? The majority of the time the biggest reason a person isn't happy with a sub isn't because of the sub itself but because the enclosure isn't right for the sub. What are the specifications on the enclosure the Opti's are in?

I agree with Bassink, you really need some extra room for a pair of 12's to fit comfortably with enough space for an acceptable size port and sub displacements as well. That being said, you've got a great space there for a single 15 of which the ICON or XCON would do very well. You don't need to feed an XCON RMS power to get it loud either. Now if the amps were strapable you could even throw a 15" ZCON in the lineup with no problems, but they don't appear to be strapable.

The XCON's will perform just fine on ~1600 watts each. I would keep to the enclosure recommendations of 5 to 5.5cuft NET with somewhere in the 120sqin or more of port area. I can help you draw something up too if needed.