altoncustomtech

It's pretty run of the mill, I've got a picture of how it looks below. It's a 2001 GMC Jimmy and currently has a pair of the Bravox CS60K components powered by a Sundown 125.2. Mids are in the stock locations mounted in very heavy duty MDF baffles which bring them out from behind the factory door panel, but unfortunately aim straight across to the other side. Doors are deadned with Second Skin CLD and RaamAudio POI CCF. I have SDS CCF and MLV to go on the doors, but I need to fix the hinges and work on attaching the door panel better before I put the MLV in. The tweeters are mounted on the door panel a couple of inches above the mid. Crossovers are mounted in the foot wells and the tweeters are set to the 0dB setting on the crossovers. As for the tuning capabilities, I have everything the Clarion CZ702 has to offer which is 3 way active capability, DTA for the six separate channels, full high/low/passband crossover capability for all six channels, and a 5 channel PEQ that can be set for any frequency from 20hz to 20,000hz in very small steps (i.e. 20, 25, 31.5, 40, 50, 63, 70, 80, 90, 100hz, etc.) IIRC. So, at this point it really does pretty decent. I get midbass response that belies what most would expect from the 6.5" mids, the stage sounds wider than the truck but it ranges from the floor up to just level with the top of the dash. Imaging is pretty much a mess though. At times the instruments can be localized and sound believable, and at others it sounds as though they're everywhere at once, and on occasion when you can localize something on the stage it can sound as though it goes from higher up to down toward the floor as it shifts from a higher octave to a lower one, for example. I would imagine these are problems that everyone experiences, but don't care enough about it to do anything to fix it. I'm getting to where I want it better though.

Jon responded with my exact same thoughts. Fi may not have a driver at that exact RMS rating, but that doesn't mean you can't get great output from the X on three or four hundred watts of power. If you don't like that idea then I would highly suggest the DCON again.

Measurements are going to be a must before we can help in any way. Once we have the dimensions we can begin working on a solution for an enclosure.

Hmm... Well, now to figure out what the hell to do from this point. Any pointers on what I need to go after to help improve the Bravox components for the time being? I can't imagine a good reason why there would be deviations in the frequency response from one side to the other, aside from environmental effects from relections and such. I swear to god the quest for near perfect staging and imaging is going to drive me insane, lol.

Thanks man, and you're welcome, I'm glad you're liking it. Feel free to hit me up anytime.

Yeah, something is up with the HU it sounds like for certain.

What car is it? Maybe someone with experience with the same car can chime in on a better ground location.

No hurry dude. Take your time, ensure you don't make any mistakes. That's much more important than being in a hurry to get back on here with any answers.

You need to sand the paint off that ground location, get it down to bare metal. In fact it would probably be beneficial to try to find a better place to ground to. The frame is preferred, but due to the uni-body design of today's cars pretty much impossible to get.

Does the noise come from the speakers without the RCA's hooked up? It seems as though it does, which leads me to believe it's a source issue of some kind. Try connecting an MP3 player or iPod DIRECTLY to the inputs on the amps, if the noise goes away and you get clean music then the issue must be with the source. I've seen a few vehicles that the factory ground wire in the harness behind the stereo was crap, you could be having a similar problem.

What HU are you running? When you say you tried two other amps and not the issue, what exactly happened when you hooked them up? Whine on top of everything else is an indicator of a ground issue in most cases.

On top of that, what specifications constitute what drivers will perform better off axis or on axis over other ones? I mean, with SO many drivers to choose from out there how the hell can the average enthusiast begin to make a choice without understanding what to look for in a driver for a particular application. I'd pay to take classes if there were any.

Damn. I was afraid you were going to pretty much answer in that way. I've gotten so much closer to what I really want with the tweaking and tuning I've done in the Jimmy thus far, but I've gotten a little more critical about it in the last few weeks and have come to the conclusion it's just not good enough. I'm trying to figure out how to get even better staging and imaging. As it is now the stereo width of the stage is wide and clear but it's still lower than it should be and the imaging is all over the place. It really sucks when I'm listening to a kick ass guitar solo, for example, and can hear it moving up and down and some side to side as it shifts through all the notes being played. I mean, I may be getting a bit too critical, but damn it I just know it can be better than it is. Which is why I'm trying to figure out what my best options are.

Wow, that's interesting. Can you post up a pic of the amps and the way they're wired? Something definitely seems off.

Awesome! Looking forward to seeing this progress. One quick question tho, did she request it?

Dude, I don't have ANY idea why you posted up on the status updates about me being a moderator, but you should be glad I'm not one. You've done a lot of insulting and aggravating throughout this thread and I for one, if I were a mod, would have issued a warning and closed it before now. Whether you're getting the answer you want or not there's absolutely NO reason to be responding the way you are. Impious has given about the most technological answer that can be given without being the persons who designs and builds them. There's no need for any other response at this point IMHO.

to the forum!

That isn't really a concern when looking at "budget" brands, honestly. Between the inherent losses suffered by all systems you'll almost never see full rated power from any amplifier. The best question to ask is if they produce a clean signal and are reliable enough to do so until you can afford something better. In the case of those three brands, I don't see why not.

Audiopipe is the first to come to mind. Lots of people seem to have real good luck with them. There's Cadence and Massive Audio as well.

I swear I'm a broken record, lol. For anyone who's as bored as I am I'll see ya in there.

Here, we'll try this out for size. Specs are exactly as mentioned before: 1.5cuft NET volume tuned to 32hz with ~47sqin of port area and a double baffle front. Here's the first few drawings I posted before. These show the general layout. These show the general measurements for each of the panels. These show the measurements along with nomenclature that matches the cutsheet to help make sense of where all the panels go. I took some artistic liberty and put some color on the enclosure for realism. This picture specifically shows the placement of the "Volume correcting panel". It's there to maintain the right airspace inside the enclosure by blocking off the small and basically dead area of volume anyway. Here's just a few more of the enclosure with a finished look to it. Basically what it could possibly look like when you're done. Finally, here's the cutsheet. Just follow through all the lines cutting to the dimensions for each panel. Obviously two need cut out at the same dimensions for the top and bottom. If there's anything about the enclosure and the design that's not clear, please just ask and I can explain it in better detail. No farther away than you are from me I sure hope I get to see and hear this bad boy some day!

My answers, as well the others are pretty much our opinions based on the few facts we know. Like I said before many of the members of this forum will defend the brand, the question seems like a bit of a jab rather than educational which is where the defensive posts are coming from. That aside, I highly doubt you'll get much more of a detailed answer than what's been provided so far since going into very much more detail will likely begin to reveal trade secrets or other information that the owners or the build house may not want public. That will be up to them though and this would probably have been better done as a PM to Mark and Aaron. I have wondered much the same thing as you as I'm a technically curious person and love to know the how's and why's of the inner workings of everything I take interest in along with what makes the cost what it is. In this case I look at it from a relative standpoint, being that anytime you have custom machine work done such as at a local machine shop, it's never cheap. The company I work for has a lot of specialty equipment to operate the engines, valves, and stations as a whole and we have had to have some of these things repaired or replaced that aren't manufactured anymore (built and installed in the late 50's). From that experience I have seen the time and what it can cost to have custom machining work done so when it comes to applying that knowledge to this particular aspect I don't really question why the costs are what they are. I would imagine anyone with that experience wouldn't so I can understand your curiosity if you don't have that experience. At the same time you could wonder why Lamborghini's are so expensive, or a space shuttle. Custom built items are just always going to be more expensive than items that are mass produced.

So your answer is USA labor and quality. Yea that is exactly what the OP asks for.... How about what specifically with the quality? Is the basket machined a certain way with special coatings? Is the surround made of some high quality super rubber that most subs do not use? Is it because of the way the voice coil is put together? does that take more time? Those would be better questions to answer instead of "because things cost more in the USA". And if you guys think Mark and AAron should answer this, then why are you posting? Nobody is asking about the business, I am asking about the materials in the SSA woofer that makes it worth the price. While they do use the higher (maybe highest, I can't say for certain because I just don't know) quality parts in the cone, surround, spiders, etc. the real money is in the labor and the fact that each and every motor is machined from a blank slug of steel, assembled and the magnet is charged at that point. I'm also fairly certain the coils are each custom wound as well then all of the parts assembled by hand. That process happens over and over again for each and every driver that is built in the build house. There's a great deal of cost in building things in that manner but it helps ensure the process produces some of the highest quality, most robust and trustworthy drivers on the market. Mark and Aaron may or may not have more to add, but that's the reasons in a nutshell that they're a little spendy compared to other brands with similar specifications. At least how I see it and how it's been explained in the past. Aside from that, why do you ask? I can't see any good coming from asking such a personal question about one brand in particular without giving (actual) good cause. Everyone has their preferences and favorite brands and it's no secret that many of the members of this forum has used, liked, and will defend the SSA brand but I also believe it's for a very good reason. If this is to start any kind of trouble I'm certain it won't and this will be put to bed in a hurry.

All based on 3/4" material. Be it MDF or Bsltic Birch ply or whatever material you decide to build it with all the measurements and dimensions are based on 3/4" thickness.

You need to scrap that box and build one for the new subs your getting to get the best performance from them. ^^^ Exactly. There's no sense at all putting a high quality sub in an enclosure that's not optimal (or with completely unknown specs). It's kind of like putting an $18,000 race engine in a Metro, it just doesn't make any sense. Build or buy a custom built enclosure for the subs and you'll be MUCH better off in the long run.