altoncustomtech

That actually makes a pretty good difference. 1.75cuft NET tuned to 32hz with enough port area to keep the port velocity to 25m/s is definitely attainable at those dimensions. Funny how a few inches can make such a big difference isn't it?

Will a aero port use less space? Nope. I did the calculations using all the way down to the same port area as a 3" aero. Technically it could fit but it's not even half the minimum port area the sub should have and the port would have to be about 10" longer than the aero kit comes ready to make it up to. Not that it's difficult to lengthen it, but in all honesty why subject the sub to such sub-optimal conditions. OP can you measure your MAX dimensions, going to the absolute limit you're willing to give up? It's not like you need a great deal more volume, just enough to help.

If you have access to some average power tools you should be able to build it yourself. The only difficulty is with angles without access to a table saw they can often prove challenging to get cut exactly right on the width of the board with the angle on it. I've found it's easy enough to cheat that by making that dimension about an inch wider than required then just trim it down on the 90 degree side flush with the enclosure. Unfortunately now for the bad news. The dimensions you provided only give a GROSS internal volume of 1.91cuft. When you subtract from that the .14cuft that the sub will displace itself that only leaves 1.77cuft to work with and even if you were to settle with the minimum 1.25cuft that Quentin said is possible you still can't get a usable amount of port area to fit in that small of a space and the port length is just too long to easily manage in the enclosure properly. You're going to have to rethink your strategy with your sub and it's enclosure if you want it to perform at anywhere near it's optimum potential. Even going down to a respectable 10" size sub would present a challenge fitting in the available space, it's still going to need to be larger than that to get a usable port size. Hate to give you the bad news, but there's just not enough room in those dimensions to do it right.

to the forum! Unfortunately it sounds as though you've driven the sub beyond it's mechanical limits and damaged the point there the tinsel leads are soldered onto the voice coil. What kind of enclosure do you have it in and what are the specifications on it? That's a Rockford Fosgate BD1500 correct? If you had it in a ported enclosure that was tuned fairly high playing music with very low frequencies it could have very well unloaded in the enclosure. Coupled with the fact that most Rockford amps have an SSF that is static, or non adjustable, unless you're tuned close to the frequency the SSF is set to it's not doing much to protect the sub from unloading. Hate to hear such a nice sub is not working right. Hopefully you can get the problem that caused it figured out and the sub reconed easily enough.

It's coming along splendidly!

I'm trying really hard to force the stars into alignment for it. There's still a lot that needs done with the enclosure to get it finished and work is always an issue but I really want to make it this year with the Jimmy done.

Thank you brother!

No need. The bed liner will not be in the holes at all, only paint. The holes will be taped off and I'll be applying the bed liner with a brush and roller like I did the amp rack.

Another good update!!!! Got to cutting the sub/PR cutouts today! Only got one done, but it's well on it's way!! Hopefully I can talk to 'ole lady into letting me spend time away from her and the kids this weekend and finish the other two cutouts. Onto the pictures. A little practice to verify the hole sizes. Good thing I did that too, found I needed to make the OD cutout 11 1/16" to clear the gasket good and that the cutout for the frame to fit in had to be 9 3/8" and that's a super good snug fit too. Spent time this morning sanding the hell out of all the sides to get it perfectly smooth, very little repair work should need done with the body filler. Otherwise this is the pin for the jig in place. Working on all the cuts to get the flush done. Flushing is all done, time for the cutout. Halfway through an inch and a half of wood. Damn. All done. Left it paper thin so the cutout wouldn't drop, unfortunately I discovered the hard way that's not a good idea with plywood. Cutout is all done. Had to sand down and clean up where the last little bit of the layer splintered from the knife. I'll be spreading a good deal of glue on the inside around the hole to help with any integrity issues, I hope. Finished sanding the mounting surface so it's all nice and smooth for a great seal. Test fitting the PR in place to ensure everything was good, and it was perfect. Fits like a nice tight glove. There it is. I love getting something done on this!!!

Woohoo, already liked both pages and Shared the picture..... twice, lol.

Thanks! Though I would chock it up to what little experience I've had in the past and the patience I've gained for doing this over the years. Skills are attained through years of knowledge, practice and an aptitude for doing them. What I have is a basic understanding of the way it should be done and enough knowledge, practice and aptitude to have it work out for me on some occasions. lol

I would take the addition of the word "professional" with a grain of salt and a lot of caution if I were you. I've met "professionals" in shops who were doing installation related NO NO's that I knew were no no's when I was still in High School (almost 16 years ago) and that wasn't but a year or two ago. There are a lot of common practices that are done by many people, even in shops, that are just plain wrong. Just as many of those folks who are doing that wouldn't know distortion from a panel rattle, active from passive processing, or how to properly spec an enclosure for a given subwoofer AND the application it's going to be used for. Just because they work in a shop don't assume they know their shit beyond any doubt. Ask them to explain exactly what clipping is and if it's not at least remotely close to what I described then they don't know what it is much less what to listen for to identify it. A proper box will always yield better results than a wrong one. If you want a good enclosure designed for that SA 12 then we can probably help with that, true enough. Who would be building it?

Time alignment is no gimmick but whether it's use is practical for your application I'm not entirely certain. Time alignment is necessary when the speakers are different distances from your ears to get them to basically play as if they were the same distance from you. That helps with keeping the sound stage (height and width of where the instruments sound like they're coming from) and imaging (the locations of the instruments and singers on the stage) sounding like they're supposed to sound. The problem is I'm not sure how effective it would be with all four speakers playing from all around you. Think of your listening position as the position of the microphone when the music was recorded. For example the singer should sound as though he is in the center of the stage, the drums directly behind him, bass guitar to the left and lead guitar to the right. When you play your music from both in front of you (front speakers) and from behind you (rear speakers) the interaction of those sounds as they were recorded gets garbled, messed up, and no longer clear anymore to start with. You're going to hear things behind you that weren't really in that location in the recording and between cancellations, environmental noises and other acoustic anomalies I can't imagine that DTA would do much to help and I could very well see where it could hurt. Someone with more knowledge would have to answer on that. It may be good enough to you now but believe me ignorance can be bliss. If I hadn't learned all that I have over the years I would probably still be happy with much less work and money spent than I am and have spent on it so far and wouldn't likely be spending more of both in the future. Learn all you can, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be surprised if you look back 5 or 10 years from now and wonder what the hell you were thinking or doing right now. I have spent more time and more money doing more things than I would ever have considered spending and doing even just five years ago. I still have A LOT to learn to become anything more than just a novice and from what I've learned so far I'm not sure I can honestly even consider myself at that level yet.

I'm not suggesting you bridge the amp to your front speakers, only trying to explain why certain things work, don't work, and what you need to be concerned with. If all you have is CLD tiles for sound deadening you're only getting about 1/3 the potential usefulness of a sound deadening treatment. Closed cell foam (CCF) and mass loaded vinyl (MLV) are both also essential to stopping other unwanted noises and sounds to ensure the best possible listening experience inside the cab of your truck. Read up a little on SOUNDDEADENERSHOWDOWN.COM to learn more about those products, and SDS isn't the only place that sells them. Also, the sheet metal is NOT considered a firm or strong baffle either. Better than plastic but still flimsy and without a loss of mass. The issue is that when the cone move's the rest of the speaker (frame and motor assembly) is trying to move the opposite direction. Those forces are transferred into whatever the speaker is attached to and with something flimsy it will move with it easier than something that is heavier and less flexible. When the speaker frame and the baffle it's mounted to moves in the opposite direction of the cone the forces on the cone are compromised, not transferred to the air to make the sound to hear and therefore output is lost. Some searching on google can explain all this in much more and probably better detail. More cone area "CAN" mean more output, but there's more to it than just that. When it comes to BASS, yeah the more the merrier for output. What you have to understand is that for all the rest of the frequencies in the listening range (and the vast majority of them I might add) more speakers can present a lot of problems and those problems can even lead to reduced output due to cancellations.

I'm wondering what you think clipping is? Clipping IS distortion (one of many forms) and is caused when the input signal attempts to drive the output signal above the voltage it has available. The gain is ONLY there to match the amplifier's input to the output voltage of the HU. When you turn the volume up and exceed the level the amp has been adjusted to, or simply have it adjusted too high it will clip the signal. For simplicity lets say the amplifier is like a transformer, but unlike a transformer the voltage can only go as high as the power supply voltage is. So say it's a 4x transformer (much like a reversed 480 to 120 control transformer), if you put 5v into it you'll get 20v out, pretty simple right. Now, let's say the the power supply limit is 20v and you put a 6v input signal into it, (6 x 4 = 24v) that 4v that it's trying to output gets clipped off at 20v because that is all that's available to it. While it's a much more technical and sophisticated difference than what I just explained that is essentially what you're running into with clipping. If the amplifier's power supply converts the 12v voltage in your vehicle to 70v, that's a 35v positive and 35 negative limit for the signal, which for a sine wave (what all sounds are) is just how it works and is why it's measured in AC voltage even when everything in your car is DC. When the gains are adjusted the idea is to match the output voltage from the HU at that volume level to get that 70v from the amp. Differences in the recording levels of the material you play, the point where you turn the volume to, etc. all play a part in whether or not you exceed that or not. If you turned your volume up to 30 to set the gain with a -6db tone, when you play music that has peaks that reach -3db in their recorded level those peaks are clipping the amp even with the volume set to the same 30 level. That is the way of it. I'm not sure how to explain it any simpler, but if you're constantly pushing the sub into distortion, barring any issues with the sub, enclosure or amp themselves then you simply need to identify the limiting factor(s) and upgrade them accordingly. You very well may be expecting more from the SA than it can possibly give.

So your saying take my Pioneer TSD's, cut the tweeter wire, and re install them? :/ . btw The door speakers you see in the photo is only a mid, the tweet is the black circle by the handle. btw I faded all the music to the fronts to test the concept of only front speakers, and lost about 40% of my musics volume and impact. I'm so confused as to how 2 speakers can sound better than 4 properly set up. I'm about ready to give up on SQ, everyone seems to think my setup is terribly broken, but it sounds great . After we get around the concept of rear speakers, in what way could i make my system sound balanced and loud with that "handicap"? 2 speakers will never be louder than 4 and i'm not about to rip my doors apart trying to fit 2 speakers into one door, so i just replaced the stock speakers with new top-line speakers. Would time-adjustment on a prs-80 help create a "surround sound " effect or am i dreaming and should scrap my truck now? Just kidding i guess i'm a little disappointed on the bashing of my perfectly good system, i have a lot of time and money in it. I'm not looking to win a national championship, i'm just looking for great sound. "Surround sound effect" is NOT the point of DTA. DTA is used to time the sound waves from each individual speaker to your ears so that the interaction of the sound waves happens as its intended in the recording. Basically it makes the speakers play as though they're the same DISTANCE away from you on each side. The difference in distance to your ears from one speaker to the other jacks with the stage and imaging. The point behind running just front speakers and front/rears together along with the real concept of SQ is just outside your realm of experience, and that's just fine. Most of the people in the hobby consider SQ to simply mean it's clear with little or no distortion at high volume levels but unfortunately its FAR more complicated than that. I agree with Sean that something is probably not setup right in your current installation if running the fader to the front speakers has that much of an impact on how it sounds. I would also like to point out that simply screwing the new speakers into the factory locations is not properly installing them either. At a MINIMUM the installation should include a regiment of sound deadening and a solid baffle to mount the speaker to instead of the flimsy plastic the factory speaker is in. Something seldom done by anyone and most definitely rarely done by most shops UNLESS specifically asked for by the customer in which they will pay at least double the price to have it done. Please don't be offended or discouraged by the diagnosis, suggestions and recommendations offered up by everyone. There is such a great deal to learn about the HOW, WHY and WHAT of car audio that it simply overwhelms most people, including me, when trying to take it all in at one time. Experience installing, listening and doing it all over again several times over with the guidance of others who have already learned is the only way to learn what really works and the right from the wrong. Even then we'll never know/learn it all.

Thanks dude! Thank you bro! It's not as perfect as I had hoped it would turn out. The corners of the windows in the double baffles didn't come out as close to perfectly rounded as I had hoped. I worked hard trying to sand them and get them perfectly round but to no avail when I rounded the edges with the router it made them stick out like sore thumbs. Then I put just a little too much silicone in the first hole, which with it's glove like fit caused to to hydro lock into place 1/8" or so above the surface of the enclosure. Even after pulling it out and wiping off as much of the silicone as I could it was still having that issue a little bit. I got it down in there VERY close to where it was supposed to be (less than 1/32" above the surface of the enclosure) but it still bugs me. Hopefully these problems won't lead to any issues with the enclosure at a later date but only time will tell. Like I said, it's not going quite as perfectly as I had hoped and planned, but it's not gone too horrible either. I'm really just glad to finally have good, measurable progress!!

Another update. It's really starting to come together now. Instead of going through the spill I'm just going to post of the pics. Got the holes sanded so the step in the plexi would fit. Here the center hole on the front is rabbeted. I used my hole cutting router with it's 1/4" upcut spiral bit to work the corners in and the plexi fits like a glove in it's hole. All three holes rabbeted. All three windows fitting in their respetive locations. Putting in the silicone to seal the plexi up. Had to work fast to get everything put together so no pics of the entire process, but here it is with the double baffles on and the plexi is now forever locked into place. Tomorrow should end with the sub and PR cutouts made and the beginning of all the sanding to prepare for the body filler.

Thank you again for the help Sean, and Brad. I'm going to get things set up active first, as recommended, then worry about the issues with the drivers, again as recommended. I think a few issues will be resolved just getting away from passive operation. If that does indeed become the case I really look forward to spending the time tweaking and tuning it.

One step at a time, I know. Per the post earlier today, 60 or 70 watts of power should be plenty to run those tweeters active, should it not? I'm fairly certain it is, but some verification before I throw a little money at one would ease my questioning tendencies to over analyze every damn thing, lol.

This probably sounds like a dumb question, but what's the best ORDER in which to make the DSP adjustments when running active? Something like DTA, crossovers, then EQ? Any hints, tips or tricks on what to listen for to identify anomalies that my uneducated and limited experience may not know is an issue? Believe me I KNOW it takes experience to do this, and it takes time to learn it, but I'm a very strong analytical personality type which makes me want to get things done just right a lot and I'll study it to death to do so. Makes it really easy to miss the forest for all the trees.

Another little update. Got all the holes for the plexi windows cut out. Everything has turned out well so far on these. I also got the edges of the plexi windows rabbeted today as well. The table router I bought used from a friend really makes doing that sort of stuff NICE. I used some practice pieces of wood to get the depth just right then just went to town. I had all three pieces rabbeted in about ten minutes. Tomorrow I'm going to rabbet the holes in the enclosure the same (3/8") depth after sanding the openings and then it will be ready to seal them with silicone, glue the double baffles on, and get the holes cut out for the sub and PR's!! Hole number two cut out. All three cut out. Here's a shot with the first one rabbeted and the second one getting ready to be done. Here they are resting in their perspective locations. The last two pictures here show where just a little tiny bit of sanding will be all they need to slip right into place. Once they fit down in there correctly I can rabbet the enclosure to match and when thats all done the plexi windows will sit perfectly flush (ideally just a few thousandths of an inch above flush) with the rest of the enclosure when dropped into place. Well, that's all for today. If I can get through the aforementioned steps tomorrow it's all downhill from there. Sanding, rounding the edges of the enclosure, more sanding, body filler, more sanding, more body filler, more sanding, primer, more sanding, more primer, more sanding, painting the interior of the enclosure then applying the bed liner to the outside to finish it!

I've also seen 'high end' audio builds use Audiobahn, BOSS, Sony (not mobile ES), and other various bullshit companies, so what's your point? Add in that a 50 ampere loss is dependent on numerous variables and as such the number can go up or down. J True, but if the applicaiton isn't requiring every last bit of current and voltage through the wire then what does it hurt? I have personally done several installs that are using lower powered amps in setups that the persons who own the vehicle will not be competing or even running to it's limits and they've had no issues whatsoever. I agree that in any application where maximum current flow with minimum voltage drop OFC wins hands down, but for the average persons average install CCA isn't going to hurt a damned thing.

Well, I've looked at a few things and tried some listening to the individual drivers and I'm convinced I need to take them active to do any real good. Mounting the plus sized JBL 4 channel is going to be a PITA with the way I currently have the amp rack built and configured so I think I'm just going to pick up a little 2 channel amp that will be easy to hide for the tweeters. I'm looking at getting a PPI S200.2 to run the tweeters with as it's pretty small and priced right, or perhaps a Polk Audio PA D2000.2 or some similar little class D. I think 70 watts a channel will be more than enough though for tweeters and then I can do more with ensuring placements, phasing and the like are in good shape and begin to zero in on the actual problem areas. Just in case you're wondering I came to that conclusion after running the mids without the passive crossovers and getting a MUCH better overall experience from them. For testingI had them low crossed at 2.5khz and they sounded 10x smoother and tamer than on the passive crossovers along with a seemingly fair improvement on the bass (still questioning that). I'm sensing the need to ditch the passive crossovers though.