altoncustomtech

The month is halfway through, figured I'd bump this...

Well, after doing more looking around, reading and such I think I'm going to go ahead and swap the SAZ1500 out for the BC2k and use the GT2125 for the full ranges with the IA 6.4 running the midbasses. I came to that realization after reading the PAS review on the Q700. The amp is rated for 175 x 2 @ 4, which is way more than needed for the full ranges, and then they measured it at 224 x 2 @ 4 with 14.4v of power. Between the fact that it's WAY more overhead than I really need for the fullranges and I didn't realize that it's 1.25" longer than the BC2k. Being longer doesn't really hurt anything but I'm thinking about moving the Harmony to the amp rack in the rear and the smaller GT2125 will make that a little easier and cleaner to look at, I think. Anyway, that's my thoughts on it for now. I can't wait to get the IA from Ohjay so I can begin working on the changes. Hopefully they'll be done in time for the CAR SHOW at the first of the month.

Okay, I REALLY didn't plan it this way but I'm thinking about taking advantage of my new found surplus of amps. The reason for my dilemma is two fold. First off I decided to buy the IA 6.4 from Ohjay to power the SLS 8's in my Jimmy when I finally get to installing them. So I eventually plan on installing it anyway which brings me to the other side of the coin. This weekend I ran into some issues with the SAX-125.2 running as it should. First off I've noticed lately that the midbass is great some days and others it simply feels weaker than it should. I was attributing that mostly to my imagination and some psycho acoustics. Then this weekend after running the system particularly hard the SAX-125 cut out for a little bit and came back on seeming really weak. Then it just quit playing all together. I checked the voltage going into the amp and the remote lead and the power was good on all of them. There were no power related issues but the power light was off like it didn't have any power. Sunday when I drove it again the amp powered back up and it sounded weaker than it should again but played the whole time I was driving it. Then this morning I took off in it to go to work and not only did it power back on like it should but the output, force and impact of the Mach5's was present again. So, I'm thinking the amp is about toast. Luckily for me I happen to have quite a few sitting around and a few more on the way to me. Which got me to thinking, why not go ahead and install the IA in the truck to run the Mach5's, obviously with the gains turned WAY down. I would have to modify the amp rack a little to accommodate the IA anyway when I got the SLS's in. I was going to use the SAX125 to run the Fountek FR89's when that time came as well but since it seems to be failing I'll have to replace it as well. Which brings me to my first question. I've got a pair of Boston Acoustics GT2125 amps I was originally planning on using to power the SLS's but it was going to be a major headache to build the framework I was going to have to build to mount them to my amp rack with the existing SAZ1500 and SAX125. I could use one of them to power the Fountek's or I could use the Image Dynamics Q700.2 I picked up off eBay for a steal. I was just wondering what anyone's opinion would be on which they would use. Power ratings on all of them (SAX125, GT2125 and the Q700.2) are pretty much exactly the same and that's not even my concern. I just thought I would get some input from the collective group on what they would use. My other thought is that I just got these two Crescendo BC2k's from antoinez28. I bought one specifically for a friend who otherwise couldn't have ordered it and I got the other simply because he offered the pair up for a better price than separately. I figured I could either find a use for it or sell it in the future. Well, all this required amp rack redo thinking made me think, would it be worthwhile to trade the SAZ1500 out for the BC2k. I'm not thinking the extra power would be in any way useful for more output but I did think that the extra power could be good for a little overhead. That way everything, not just the fullrangers and midbasses would be powered with some overhead. I'm not sure if the BC2k's rated 2250 watts would even be worthwhile overhead or not. If not then I'm not going to fuss with it, but if so that's not a great deal more work to use it. So, those are my thoughts. I hate that the SAX125 seems to be having an issue and I'll probably send it in to dB-r for repair, I think it's worth doing that. In the meantime my intellectual thicket is driving me nuts, lol. I'm just looking for opinions, nothing serious.

LOL, sorry guys, the chat room sounds were off.... Never knew anyone came in while working on a reply in a thread.....

Once again.... Whomever may be so inclined...

Gains are there for that purpose. You could connect a 1,000,000 watt amp up to a 100 watt speaker and as long as you set the gains correctly it wouldn't blow it. Your HU, even if it CAN output a full 4V through the pre-outs, wouldn't output that much voltage unless the volume was turned all the way up. It doesn't output 4V all the time. That's why it's suggested to set gains with the volume at about 3/4 of the way up. That way you can always turn it down for music that has a higher than normal recording level and turn it up a little more for the music that has a below average recording level. The one thing you've not mentioned that I would love to hear about is what you think of the DCON's.

The whole reason I got the IA was to simplify the installation. There's BARELY enough room for the pair of Bostons back there and the wiring would be a PITA since they all go into the side of the amps. I read some info and saw some measurements on the ID amp last night which has me thinking it would be ideally suited for the job. I do like the reasoning behind swapping the 1500 for the BC2k though, keeping them a "matched set" would be nice. LOL In that case I should sell the 1500 and buy an NS1, then everything would have the same grossly overrated overhead.

Boredom has overtaken me.... I'll be in there for as long as I can continue to keep my eyes open.... lol

The Voltage only dropping about a half a volt tells you that your connections are good. There's no resistance in them for the voltage to drop across when the current flows. You might have it kicked at this point, you might not. You'll have to keep playing it and pushing it to see if it gets hot enough again to shut down or not.

It sounds to me like the subs may not be wired correctly. Double check the series/parallel wiring of your subs to verify for certain you have them wired for 4 ohms. Hook your voltmeter/DMM up to the power terminals on the amp and watch the voltage. If you have a bad connection/ground you'll see the voltage drop. I had a Hifonics ZXi6006 several years ago running the components in my van and it ran pretty hot all the time. Class A/B amps just aren't very efficient and a lot of the power they draw from the electrical system (a little better than 50% efficient in most cases) is simply lost as heat. That's just my .02

The LPF you'll adjust to your tastes. Typically it will be close to what you have the HPF for your highs set to. You can use the LPF in the HU instead of the one on the amp, the only real difference is the one on the amp has more adjustability than the one in the HU. As for the SSF (subsonic), it should be adjusted to 2hz to 3hz below the tuning of the enclosure. The best way to adjust it is to play some tones that range several hz above and below the tuning of your enclosure. Turn the volume up enough to get the sub moving and watch it as you go through each of the tones. Believe it or not the frequency at which the sub moves the LEAST is the tuning frequency of the enclosure. Subtract the 2 or 3 hertz from that frequency and play that tone. Then turn up the SSF until the sub is moving about HALF of it's throw from where you started and that will safely set the SSF. Don't go by the numbers on the faceplate, they're typically not even close to right. Do the method above for the SSF and use your HU if possible for the LPF, then you'll know exactly where you're at.

That's great, but not all the details we need. Is it going to be for daily use, competition, a mix of both? Is there a possibility you can afford to give the enclosure more space? Which subs did you primarily have your eyes on and what's your second choice? These details and more are what I'm referring to. You might be wanting us to simply say, "Yeah, just go with the BL's and it'll kick ass." and that would be the kind of answer you'd get on other forums. However, there's a lot more to it than that and here we want it to be right, not just whatever is easy or the answer that people want to hear or get from us. I seriously doubt that a box with those dimensions is going to work. By the time it's built right there won't be adequate space for the subs. If it's strictly for competition use being a little on the smaller side won't necessarily hurt as bad as it might for daily listening and digging low.

to the forum! I think you'll definitely find this one a bit less childish and the information available here much more accurate. You'll soon wonder why you didn't join up here sooner and wonder what the hell is wrong with everyone over there, lol.

In those dimensions you've only got about 13.25cuft total space to work with. I think once you subtract the sub displacements, bracing, and port displacement you're going to come up short on space. What are your goals for this sub stage? The more details you give the more help everyone can be.

to the forum!!

I would much rather have components, I've just never had experience installing them. What do you recommend for those? i would like to be able to pick them up in store because i don't really live in a great area and i get home at 2:30am so im scared someone will take it off my front porch haha. If i have to i will order online instead of wasting money on something that is just "ok" The only ones i see in store that are 6 1/2 (the rest are 5 1/4) are Alpine SPS-610C, Kenwood KFC-P709PS and Kicker 40CSS654 The same series of Pioneer speakers in component sets are pretty nice as well. I've not had any experience with the Kenwood or Kicker components you mentioned but the Alpine SPS's are too shabby either, though it's my opinion the Pioneers do sound a bit smoother. There's also the Incriminator Audio 6.5" components that quite a few people seem to really like. As far as ordering things, I believe that Fedex and UPS have the capability or option of shipping to a local store, or holding it at a local delivery point so that you can simply go and pick it up instead of having it shipped directly to your door if you can't trust your neighborhood. That may be something you can take advantage of in your case, or have it shipped somewhere you don't have to worry about it disappearing and can trust the person you send it to will give it to you when you go to get it from them. There's not a ton of options for someone in your shoes, but there are options. Components aren't that much more difficult to install, they just require a little more work and planning. One of the best things you can do when you go to install components is to not simply set your mind on just one and only one location to mount the tweeters and be comfortable with making modifications to your vehicle. The best thing to do is use some double sided tape or something similar to stick them in different locations. Do that and listen to them in those locations for a bit to get a good feel for the sound. Try different aiming directions where applicable as well. In locations where they don't sound as good try switching the polarity on one, then the other, then both to see if it helps. Then once you find the perfect spot that sounds the best to you make them permanently installed in that location. If all that is too much for your current installation skills, or you're not comfortable making any permanent modifications to your vehicle it might be best to stick with the coaxials for now.

If that's the biggest box that will fit then you're kinda stuck with what you have and I figured that might be the case when I first mentioned the larger size enclosure. That's a fairly small car. Passive radiators smaller than the active driver won't work. They have to be at least the same size and preferably larger in order to be effective. An 18" PR or a pair of 15" PR's could work, but considering that a PR setup isn't typically as efficient as a standard ported enclosure it's hard to say without doing some modeling whether or not the PR setup would excel over your current enclosure. Even at that I doubt you have enough room on the box for even one 15" PR, let alone two or an 18".

LOL, gotta love how little kids say stuff. Mine are all too big for that kinda stuff anymore. Later on down the road a larger port will require an entire box redesign due to the fact it will have to be larger in size to keep the tuning correct. It's hard to get ports larger than 6" with the flares which really do help with port noise. A slot port however would be simpler to design and build without the cost of the port either. At this point I wouldn't worry that much about it and just enjoy the woofer for now.

Sean's right, a 6" round port isn't going to breath as good as it may need it to. Unless port noise becomes an issue you're fine for now, don't think it's completely jacked. That's why he said if you ever rebuild it that you should give it more port area. The only problem with that is the box will become exponentially larger when the port area becomes larger so you may be stuck between a rock and a hard place in that little car if/when that times comes. So again, unless the port noise is so bad you can't stand it don't worry about it right now. Listen, enjoy and think about what you might do with it in the future. As for the enclosure itself, I think it's awesome. Very cleanly bulit, nice ideas on the bracing, and that stain just makes it pop. Sure, might not be the color others would choose but that's why you own it and not them, lol. I can't wait for you to get it installed and broken in. You think you love the sound now and it will just get better! The tuning will drop a little too when you finally invert the sub.

I wouldn't normally recommend any coaxials to anyone, it's just not that hard to work in a set of components, but I've installed these Pioneer TS-D1702R's in a few vehicles and what you get for the price paid is pretty hard to beat. Wal-Mart wouldn't have them but any shop that carries Pioneer products should be able to get them. Not sure what the prices would be in a shop but I've found them online for under $70 a pair. On HU power alone they're not bad but if you can put a four channel amp on them they come alive with great midbass and a great smooth sound for their modest price. The most important thing though is the installation no matter what speaker it is that you end up using. A solid baffle and a little sound deadening can go a LONG way on the sound of speakers mounted in the factory locations.

Alright then, you should have the space. The subs are good in enclosures of 3cuft to 6cuft per sub, however the keep in mind that if you're planning on running more than rated power to the subs you should probably look at the smaller end of the scale. That's why I suggested about 4cuft per sub and nice easy number to calculate with. Also, the roughly 22cuft. GROSS figure was only the sub and port displacements along with the 16cuft. NET enclosure size. That's not accounting for any bracing and you'll definitely want/need that in the enclosure without any doubt.

You'll need around 4cuft per sub, that's a 16cuft NET enclosure. Add to that the port and it's length plus woofer displacements and you'll need about a minimum of 22cuft of space for the enclosure. That's a huge enclosure, are you sure you have room for it? Are you planning on doing a wall?

We'd be glad to help but we'll need the maximum dimensions of the trunk or whatever location you're planning on putting the sub into in order to help. Also, keep in mind that "small" and "ported enclosure" don't always go well together.

Just waitin' for you to get back online and read the PM, lol.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of shooting for the stars, but from what I'm gathering from your post here you should probably start with something more suited to learning as a beginner. The XCON is a truly great sub and would serve you well, but in the event of you not getting things setup correctly and something should happen to it that would be a costly mistake. Maybe trying something a little more down to earth to start out with would be a better and less expensive endeavor. You've already got a decent set of components with those Incriminators. You should find a good deal on a decent 4 channel amp and pick up something like a DCON, GCON or similar. Bridge one pair of channels on the amp to the sub and concentrate on making sure the enclosure is ideal and I think you'd be surprised and very happy with the results. A lot of people think they have to have a lot of power to have a good and loud setup but the truth is that for daily listening a few hundred watts can be pretty impressive when correctly implemented. My sister is using a single 12" DCON and it continues to impress me when we try new music on it and it impresses everyone who she's demoed it for as well. I don't mean to offend, it's just my .02 worth