Florida_Audio

Pioneer GM-D8604 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_63974_Pioneer-GM-D8604.html its $140. class d RMS Power @ 4 ohms 100 watts x 4 channels its around $100 cheaper than the next comparable amplifier that has RMS listed and is a decent name brand? Im aware that its class D so, thats part of why its cheaper. But other than that, im worried its bad for some reason because of how cheap it is?

ok thanks. ive looked at other pioneer amps, and they all seem quite a bit cheaper than any other name brand amp thats close to the same specs for number of channels and RMS output should be okay i hope. ive heard alot of reviews of people saying they lost a channel on this amp. some say they look a channel in like 6 months to 1 year of use. weird though, most amazon has these reviews for this item though. i wonder if places like crutchfield or sonicelexctronix edits their reviews for the products they sell. like maybe the delete the bad reviews, because its hard to find bad reviews for any item they sell on their site.

Im getting Alpine Type‑R SPR‑60C 2‑way Speakers. rated at 4 ohms Going to be using an amplifier that can output at least 100 RMS each channel. up to around 125 RMS per channel. My car is a 2013 hyundai elantra coupe. I tried asking dealership if they knew the gauge of the factory speaker wire. or how to figure it out, in some manual or booklet. they said theres really no way to know, unless u measure or look at the wire itself. I tried looked at youtube videos or other sources online and couldnt find anything specifying the gauge of the factory speaker wire. Im assuming its between 18-22 gauge wire? I heard that something such as 20 gauge wire can only handle around 50 RMS. So, it this is the case, then is there any point in even getting an amplifier that can produce more than 50 RMS to each speaker? Should i still get an amp rated at 100 RMS per channel? I dont quite understand this. I know its better to replace the factory speaker wire. but not sure exactly why its important, or really by how much? I know the wire size can help prevent heat and some loss of sound quality. is this loss alot? And ive heard aftermarket speaker wire has better shielding from interference with other wires in the car. and ive heard that replacing the stock speaker wire in newer cars, such as mine, is extremely difficult due to how they are wiring them in the car? how long should it take to rewire speaker wires to only the two front doors of my car? approximate for someone who is not an expert, but not a total noob? like under 1 hour, or several hours? if i do replace the speaker wire i would like to run at least 16 gauge. maybe 14 gauge. but id assume either is fine. Someone here has said i wont notice the difference in sound from amplifying my speakers at 65 RMS vs 110 RMS. just wondering how, or why this would be? i thought the degree to which you amplify your speakers can allow the highs to be more prominent or the mid bass, etc. like can vary how the speakers sound by a noticeable amount? also wondering if using 20 gauge speaker wire can bottleneck my system and only allow a much smaller amount of power to the speakers? For the most part i am just trying to learn as much as i can about how these things work and such and if my assumptions are correct? Thank you for reading! edit: just read this : "Its not really a question of how much current the wires can handle but how much power you would be losing on thin wires. Thinner the wire higher the resistance and so higher the power loss on the wires. " Is this true? and if so, would it make sense to just add more RMS to the wire, to overpower the power, to account for the loss? wonder if the loss is like a straight number, like anything over x amount is 100% lost. or is it more like anything over x amount is lost by an increasing percentage? So maybe sending like 150 RMS through the wire, would help get towards the 110 RMS id want to have hit the speakers? im trying to look into how amps, voltage, watts, and ohms are related in this. the articles ive found make sense, but then there are alot of gaps where i dont understand the info very well. and even if i do understand the info, its also a matter of whether or not the info is actually accurate.

ok thanks. yeah for now ill just get the adapter that goes from amp to the headunit. its this : Install Bay MC918-20 20 ft. (6.1 meters) of Nine Conductor 18 AWG Twisted Multi-Use Cable http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_20326_Install-Bay-MC918-20.html this is what i will need right? and maybe much later on when i do start to upgrade various things, i might consider the speaker wire to be rewired. thanks !

wow thanks. another excellent explanation! just to make sure i understand the general idea of the first part of what you said, in relation to RMS. you mean the majority of the sounds being played will not change due to the amount of RMS being sent to speakers. But, if you have the proper RMS being sent to the speakers then you get a much greater range of details coming through? maybe this might work as an example? at least how i understand it? you have speakers rated at 110 RMS. but you power them with 60 RMS. so you have details and sounds from different frequencies 1 through 10. and with 60 RMS u can only hear numbers 4 through 8 very well. but 1,2, 9 and 10 are heard, but not very clear or detailed? but, when you power those speakers with 110 RMS then you can distinguish and hear in detail, every number, 1 through 10? idk if frequencies or details is the proper word for this? thanks. yea, ive seen a chart from this site before: http://www.the12volt.com/wiring/recwirsz.asp it says at the bottom : Recommended Speaker Wire Size by Load and Distance Wire Size 2 ohm load 4 ohm load 6 ohm load 8 ohm load 22 AWG 3 feet max 6 feet max 9 feet max 12 feet max 20 AWG 5 feet max 10 feet max 15 feet max 20 feet max 18 AWG 8 feet max 16 feet max 24 feet max 32 feet max 16 AWG 12 feet max 24 feet max 36 feet max 48 feet max So...... im assuming my car has 22 or 20 AWG wire factory already in it for speakers. the length is probably around 15 feet. and my speakers are 4 ohm. so this is saying i can only run factory wire around 6 to 10 feet? i dont understand how they have this table, without the RMS? they are only comparing distance and ohms. but i thought the RMS should also be factored in? this site has some amazing info, but im having trouble understanding what they mean by dips in the ohms and how some speaker wire is rated a a maximum ohm, but sometimes the power sent through the wire can go above or below the rated ohms of the speaker wire, and how this affects the sound. they are saying that there are some very noticeable differences depending on certain things. but im not sure what these things are?

not worried about the price of material. worried about if its going to sound much worse or noticeable in anyway. also that i hear its extremely difficult to run new wires through newer cars with molex and other wires in the way. also im not even sure if thats a correct assumption for the length of the speaker wires? if the length of the car is 15 feet, id assume the speaker wire is around 15 feet, maybe 5 more, so 20 feet? but should be around that number, i would assume. wow...... thanks a lot! i sort of heard that even though ur stuff is rating to put out certain amount of power that it wont be constant output of that. but i thought thats why you look at RMS not peak watt. because i thought RMS is the average or number of watts thats being output much more often than the peak? so then what is RMS? the numbers i listed above were all about RMS for the watts, 110 RMS speakers, and then when i listed numbers for the amplifier. since you mentioned "many more items" on how they are installed, curious what else there is? besides deadening and the location of speakers? just to get an idea and such. Thanks again! great in depth response

trying to be thorough. what is considered long? my car is pretty close to 15 feet in length, measured outside car, front to back. the amp will be in the trunk. and well front speakers are by the front. so id assume the wire length to be around 15 to 20 feet? and im not sure of the factory speaker wire gauge, assume the worst, lets say 20 or 22 gauge? trying to send 110 RMS to the speakers. but like i said above, if some of the power is lost, then would trying to send like 150 RMS to the speaker, allow for more to be maintained? like lets say you try to send 150 RMS to speaker, but some is lost and you end up with 100 RMS. should be fine then? overpower a bit to overcompensate for the loss ?

So i am still confused on head units.... So I called the local shop where i want to get my car audio equipment installed at, due to their reviews and prices for installation. But the dude on the phone just told me some concerning things... makes me rethink even going there to get the installation done. Or maybe he is right? He says he has been doing this stuff for many years. I told the guy i wanted to get 2 front component speakers installed, a new head unit, and an amplifier for the speakers. The amp will be 4 channels, to allow for upgrade of 2 more rear coaxial speakers later. And the head unit will be one with 3 outputs, front, rear, and subwoofer. The guy told me that the 3 outputs are not needed at all and too much. He said only 1 or 2 would be fine. i told him i wanted the 3 to allow for a subwoofer and rear speakers later on. he said its still not needed, because only 2 should be needed. He said that the subwoofer output is not needed because you dont normally need to change the subwoofer settings for fade using the head unit if the subwoofer installation is done well? Im not even sure what the fade setting does for subwoofer, i think me mentioned front and back fade or something? is this true? i thought u have to have the subwoofer output so you can actually allow the subwoofer to produce the bass along with the music? someone on this website explained it pretty well to me that i DO NEED the 3 outputs to be able to hook these things up. Also if some1 can tell me how to give you guys a plus 1 for helping me, im more than happy to do it. Someone in my other thread was beyond helpful and id like to +1 if i can?

The amp wiring kit is :NVX XKIT84 (100% Copper, 4-Channel True Spec 8 Gauge Amplifier Installation Kit w/ RCA Interconnect and 65 ft Speaker Cable) http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_66498_NVX-XKIT84.html This is the amp it will be used with : Hifonics Zeus ZRX1000.4 - 1000W 4-Channel Class A/B Zeus Series Car Amplifier http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44492_Hifonics-Zeus-ZRX1000.4.html Just wondering if that is a good decision? It also comes with speaker wires. Edit: i just read that a 4 gauge amp wire might be better? but is it needed for this? or should this 8 gauge wire be fine? Also the speaker wire it comes with is 16 gauge. Would i need 12 or 14 gauge speaker wire instead? I plan on only using 2 front component speakers for now. Each speaker takes 110 RMS. And later i will bridge 2 channels from my amp to run a subwoofer. So should i try to stay around 500 RMS from all parts?

budget for the amp is around $150. possibly $200 if its going to help alot. but id prefer to stay around $150 if possible. thanks.

thanks. yea ive seen a few things from that site. some things can be quite confusing lol. but the parts that i do understand are helpful. gotta take my time to learn these things sadly. i wish i could learn these things much faster :] Ok so you are also sayins that matching the RMS is not going to improve sound quality?

If i get a head unit with 3 RCA outputs, front, rear, and subwoofer. can i use a 4 channel amp to power 2 front speakers, and the bridge the other 2 channels to power one subwoofer? this amp : http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44492_Hifonics-Zeus-ZRX1000.4.html and these speakers : http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_34364_Alpine-SPR-60C.html the amp says says: 4-Channel Class A/B Zeus Series Car Amplifier Max Power Rating: 4 ohms: 125 watts x 4 chan. 2 ohms: 250 watts x 4 chan. Bridged, 4 ohm: 500 watts x 2 chan. the speakers say: RMS Power Handling 110 watts (each speaker) Sensitivity 88 dB Frequency Response 65 - 29000 Hz Impedance (Per Voice Coil) 4 ohms so because the amp says bridged 4 ohm 500 watts x 2 channel. does this mean i can only get a subwoofer compatible for 4 ohm? Now that it says 500 watts x 2 chan, does this mean my speakers will be way overpowered? or can i set the amp to give different watts for speakers and different watts for the subwoofer? do i loose any ability to edit how they sound because they are bridged, like would i loose the ability to adjust any types of controls for either speakers or subwoofer? so im wondering what would be the cons to doing this if its even possible? i should have room to add a subwoofer with this amp, assuming this is possible? Thank you guys! edit: i just briefly read an article about dual voice coils and how they allow you to somehow alter the ohms.... seemed bit confusing, but now that leads me to another question. is single or dual voice coil better for this type of setup with bridging? from what i understand, it seems the dual voice coil options are not needed as long as i keep the ohms the same for the speaker, amp, and subwoofer? as in this case, as long as all are compatible with 4 ohms, it should be fine? these 2 subwoofers seem cheap enough and have decent reviews, not looking for crazy large bass, just something basic to help produce lows. think these would work? one is dual, other is single coil. which is better if they would fit with my other parts listed above? to be honest the single coil is cheaper and prob would fit my budget alot better. what type of box enclosure would i need for these? http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12333_Polk-Audio-db840.html http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_16143_Polk-Audio-db840DVC.html

ok thanks. i might try and check out some other popular name brands for prices, but so far this pioneer seems the cheapest 4 channel amp that has RMS listed and 100 RMS per channel seems good enough for my speakers that can run 110 RMS. close enough. I guess CEA compliant only pertains to the RMS rated output, would be cool if some people did some real tests between the difference class amps. but since im not too knowledgeable about why one might sound better, or the degree to which it would cause a change in sound, i cannot comment if it really would be noticeable. im aware that humans can only hear within a certain frequency range and such, so many things that a computer can pickup, would not matter for humans. or even if some things can be picked up by human ears, its a matter of to what degree its noticeable and such. but since im doing this build, i would like to do things right once, instead of having to redo stuff. but then again, nothing is ever perfect, theres always room to learn and improve :] but sorry for bother, i do appreciate your responses! you do seem very confident in your responses and seem to have had quite alot of experience with these many things. But maybe not something too lengthy, but curious why you said i wont notice a difference between 65 RMS to 110 RMS being sent to my speakers? also my bad, but what do u mean by "railing the rails". i assume something about using just barely enough power to get by? not sure though.

I was then looking at a pioneer class D amplifier that has RMS listed, and well its pioneer, as far as i know, its a great brand but its a class D amplifier not AB. Class d should be more efficient(use less power) but i have heard people say it sounds a bit worse than an AB amplifier? this amp is pioneer, but its Class D http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_63974_Pioneer-GM-D8604.html Pioneer GM-D8604 600W Class FD 4-Channel GM Digital Series Amplifier Can i ask why you said a speaker rated at 110 RMS would sound no different if listening to it, when its powered at 65 RMS versus 110 RMS? I thought giving it more power for its rated RMS, should help with making the mids sound more clear and full? Thank you. I apologize for asking so many questions, its just that im trying to learn each detail and such, and i have been known to be stubborn, but i am learning and listening!

take subwoofer out of car place subwoofer against tree blast subwoofer, rattle tree, till limb falls

Is looking at the fuses a good way to calculate the actual RMS on the amplifier? If the real RMS is not listed? Or does the fuse only show the maximum possible RMS of the amplifier? But the actual RMS is most likely much less than what the fuses are capable of?

Why is the RMS being sent to the speaker irrelevant? if the speaker is rated at 110 RMS. i would think supplying 110 RMS would help make it sound much better than if i only supplied it with 65 RMS? by good amp, what brands would you suggest? im aware of big company names, such as pioneer and alpine. But ive seen MANY other brands and not sure if they are also good to get, because they are cheaper priced. But ive heard cheaper amps rated at same RMS can sound a bit worse than a better quality amp with the same RMS rating and same class as in A/B. WTF? now this VERY similar zeus amp is says RMS..... and its only 10 bucks more. this true RMS? http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_94886_Hifonics-Zeus-ZRX1016.4.html Hifonics Zeus ZRX1016.4 How and why? So because this lists it as RMS..... wtf? might be a typo and should not have RMS? Compared to this one that does not say RMS http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_44492_Hifonics-Zeus-ZRX1000.4.html Hifonics Zeus ZRX1000.4 Also, as far as safety for car battery being able to run an amplifier, do you look at the peak watts or RMS. I thought the RMS is what matters as for car battery? But maybe its the peak watts?

Thanks for pointing this out. Even after you said this..... i still thought the amplifier was in RMS under the description of it.... I was wrong. i confused the 4 ohm and 2 ohm, and this made me think the 4 ohm was in RMS, because it was a smaller number of watts. but its just the difference between 2 ohm and 4 ohm..... so basically the amp is 4 ohm at 125 watts, NOT RMS. So its really probably around 62.5 RMS? my speakers are rated at 110 RMS. So either way, this amplifer CANNOT power my speakers to their optimal potential. it can power the speakers, but just not that great. Would powering my speakers at 62.5 RMS be a big difference from powering them at 110 RMS? obviously its hard to answer, but taking a guess, i would assume it would be quite noticeable? Whats an amp you would suggest thats cheap, but decent quality, and can power my speakers well? I messed up big time, thinking that amp was in RMS.... Thanks.... Im pissed at myself, i thought i read it correctly before, even after you pointed it out! My bad....

It looks like theres more pieces to the kit i originally posted about? Do i really need all of those pieces? I honestly have no clue what half of these pieces do? Just wondering if i get the other kit, thats same price and gauge 4, will I need to purchase anything else for the amp and speaker installation? Maybe a bit more speaker wire, but I think thats it? This comes with the original kit: 20 ft. (6.1 meters) Frosted Blue 8 gauge power wire with seamless crimp ring terminal 3 ft. (.91 meters) Frosted Gray 8 gauge ground wire with seamless crimp ring terminal 20 ft. (6.1 meters) Clear 18 gauge remote lead wire 65 ft. (19.8 meters) Frosted Gray/Blue 16 gauge speaker wire -- includes a 40 ft. pack and a separate 25 ft. pack One 16 ft. (5 meters) 4-channel twisted construction RCA interconnect Cable (NVX XIV45) One NVX XMANL04 ANL/Mini-ANL Fuse Holder with 60 amp Mini-ANL fuse One 5/16" black rubber firewall grommet Two 8 gauge spade terminals Two black 16 gauge nickel-plated spade lugs Three blue 16 gauge nickel-plated spade lugs One black 18 gauge spade terminal Two 18 gauge red butt connector Ten 4" black zip ties This comes with the kit you suggested: 18 Feet 4 Gauge Blue Kolossus Fleks Power Wire 3 Feet 4 Gauge Black Kolossus Fleks Ground Wire One Waterproof Mini-ANL Fuse Holder with 120A Fuse TWO 5 Meter Bassik Kable Black OFC RCA Cable with Built in Turn On lead 20 Feet BLUE Kord Kable OFC 12 Gauge Speaker Wire 2 Gold Plated 4 Gauge Ring Terminals, 2 Gold Plated 4 Gauge Spade Terminals Split Loom and wire ties What about this kit. its very similar to the one you posted buy costs a few bucks more. whats different? is it better? Im still not sure what im looking at as far as differences between these parts. They all seem the same to me :[ http://www.knukonceptz.com/mobile-audio/amp-installation-kits/sp/kolossus-fleks-4-gauge-amplifier-installation-kit/ This comes with: 18 Feet 4 Gauge Red Kolossus Fleks Power Wire 3 Feet 4 Gauge Smoke Kolossus Fleks Ground Wire One Waterproof Mini-ANL Fuse Holder with 120A Fuse One 6 Meter 2 Channel Karma RCA Cable 20 Feet Karma SS 12 Gauge Speaker Wire 2 Gold Plated 4 Gauge Ring Terminals, 2 Gold Plated 4 Gauge Spade Terminals 6' Split Loom, 20' Remote Wire, and wire ties

ok thanks yea. i read that tweeters are good to be placed level with your face. higher and some mid frequency sounds get lost when not placed in a good angle towards your ears. But also for the speaker baffle. do you use the plastic mount that comes with the speakers, and then add the MDF mount on top of it? i see so many videos of people cutting out their MDF mounts, but have never seen any video about installing the MDF mount in detail. id like to see how you install the MDF to the door and such? thanks alot !

ok thanks! so ill look into a premade MDF mount, and i can just buy some spray to coat it so it is water proof. What waterproof spray or material would you suggest thats cheap, but works well? Should I waterproof it AFTER i drill the holes into it for the speaker to fit. So the holes drilled are also waterproofed on the inside of them? Does this matter? Thanks for pointing that stuff out about JBLs points. I do appreciate the effort you have given to help me ! The clay seems easy enough, cant really mess up sealing with clay right? But i am in florida and it gets VERY hot very often. wondering if theres some special clay that is good to put as a seal, but wont melt from heat? Or should i just get something else to seal it, but is going add a good amount of mass? Maybe speaker caulk would be the next best thing that is heavy? or some heat resistant clay? does it matter what brand clay if i can find one thats heat resistant? Thank you so much for explaining the reason why clay is used over other things. I like to hear what to do, but explaining why i should do it is all that much more helpful! I was confused about baffles, because most of what i saw that were named "baffles" were the crutchfield kind, and ive read things saying baffles help, but then i also heard the closed back to those baffles hurts the sound cause no air flow. My understanding is that speakers need air behind them to help them push the air in front of them. but you want to normally mount speakers flush with the door leading into your vehicle, correct? and to make the speaker be flush with the door to the inside of your vehicle, that is where you choose the length of the baffle? so if the baffle is longer then it can extent to reach and be flush with the door panel and send sound directly into your car, and so sound does not leak out and back inside the door panel? and the mass on the door and sound or vibration inert material such as MDF wood, but u want to waterproof the wood or else humidity will make the MDF swell up and sort of destroy the mount? Thanks!!!!!!! I cant wait to get this stuff done, but so nice to make sure its all going to go well with the great info you guys provide me!

ok i thought so, but idk i found it a bit odd that the same brand i bought, for the same kit but with gauge 4 wire costs $120! but then this gauge 4 wire kit costs $60. im questioning if something is missing from the kit thats different between the two? i know these things often cost different, but for something such as wires, i didnt think the price difference would be this large. is it possible the "other" items that come with the kit are that much different? is KNU a decent quality brand? just hope if i buy the cheaper gauge 4 wire, i can know if i need to purchase something else in addition to it for the amp kit to be hooked up? Thanks! both are oxygen free which seems nice. and i like i always hear, its better to get better wire, than just the minimum needed! thanks.

my bad, i meant to say its around the same price yes. but i was wonder if its a better kit? and if it is better and the same price, then i should get the better one ?

this kit you posted is cheaper than the kit i posted, but also seems much better? is it missing anything that the kit i posted has? this one you posted seems better in every way? and same price?

ok i think i understand a bit more now. i was quite lost when you said stuff like you were not sure what to get to "fit" my car, but it has to do with the depth of the door panel from inside my car, to the door panel inside the panel? and the baffle has to fit nicely against the door panel that leads into my car, so the sound goes into my car, and does not leak into my car door? right? but im lost when using the term baffle, and bezel or ring. i think bezel and rings are the same, but the baffles ive seen have a back to them, such as the crutchfield foam speaker baffles? is this what a baffle means, to also have a closed back to it? is this what u did for your setup, is close the space behind the speaker with the baffle u installed, but its made out of MDF instead of foam? and would you agree with steps 5 and 6 in this link? https://jlaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204374070-Improving-Your-Midbass-Response- to add foam behind and in front of the speaker? would this be okay instead of MDF, or would i do this in addition to MDF. and when you said above that thicker is better, do you mean thickness, as in the depth of the ring, like how it fits between the panels? or thickness as in the width of the ring, as in how large of ring it is around the hole of the ring? (this is hard to describe, sorry, maybe you can help me reword this?) Thanks again! i think im almost understanding this! Great help!