heftybone

that's cool man, i love to have options. unfortunately it's pickin one of those options that's the problem! I've heard of taramps somewhere, I'm gonna look em up and see what's good. thanks though, man.

yeah, i didn't think of them bein underrated. but still, 200watts is a whole other amp worth of power! and considerin the sundown is underrated as well, then that's still a better deal. unless their clarity or frequency response or whatever is drastically different, i would still be drawn to the higher power units. i believe the us acoustics mike is rated with some low thd, but as the honda guy said, thd isn't really significant in a class d. unless i misunderstood him anyway. but still, i would think that one that advertises .01% would be more clear than one thats .1% at higher volumes. but i can't remember, I've been doin so much research on this build that i just can't remember everything! i still think 200watts is a significant difference, perhaps not audible, but feelable! do you not agree? i still don't know man. all of those amps look good, and i just want one that's gonna be clean and powerful and reliable. and i want around 1000 @ 2ohms now so when i upgrade my electrical in the future i can push the full rating @ 1ohm. I'm stuck with the soundqubed hdc4 sub mainly because of the looks, but it's none too shabby on the specs either. i want to do it justice in the future without needing another amp. just an electrical upgrade. like high output alternator, more batteries, etc... and i know that even a 2000watt @ 1ohm isn't going to give it everything it can handle, it'll be a nice upgrade until the next purchase of a higher power amp down the line. see, I'm tryin to spend my money wisely, so i can do it right now and then. without skimpin on anything now either. it's hard, brother. if i didn't have to upgrade my front/rear sound stage, then it wouldn't be too hard now. but i want some sound quality and i need to be able to hear the music at high volume. yes i am 40 years old, but i can still blast my music right? and with clarity!

wait, you said take a look at THOSE synergys, i only seen one. is there somethin I'm missin there?

i was actually checkin that out the other day, but it's only like 800watts @/2ohms, so that keep kinda blows it for me. I'm tryin to stay around 1000watts @ 2ohms. I'm considering now the crescendo, but i don't like the way it looks on the inside. i know you'll never see it, but i just like to think that i got somethin with some man guts! ya know? the us acoustics mike is only like 800watts @ 2ohms too, or less, so that's out. i like the ampere audio, that's definitely a contender. but so far, as far as guts go, the sundown is the best by far. it has a fan, and a bunch of transformers, but very little amount of caps. the ampere has a bunch of caps and a few transformers, so that's why that is stickin out. i know that the amount of these components don't always matter, but like i said, i just like to know that there's some cool shit goin on in there! I'm funny that way. most of my purchase is based on the initial wow factor of the looks. the other .001% is based on specs! joke there, people. i do like to feel some excitement when i look at it though, kinda like a car. you can get similar performance out of a camaro, but the mustang just looks better, so you buy that one. you guys are great though, and thanks for everything so far. it's really helped and taught me alot.

well that sounds good. except for the "if i can find one" part. is it that they're old and not made anymore, or are they so prestigious that they're just hard to come by in stock? and mike seems to be very knowledgeable, so that team is lucky to have him. i really appreciate his wisdom. i can't say it enough! somethin else that crossed my mind today, i haven't seen any class a/b mono amps in my searching, so do they make them? i assume that jbl that was spoke of is mono so how come all these amps that are heavy hitters are class d? is it cheaper to make? or just more efficient or what?

so all the class d's are gonna sound the same. of course there's variables like frequency response and harmonic distortion, but the sound is gonna be the same. unfortunately, the a/b's don't usually put out the power that the d's do so i really never considered them. i didn't think they'd sound that much different when i compared the specs, but i guess I'm wrong? it seems i have alot to learn about the digital technology. i really appreciate your help though, it makes deciding alot easier.

ok, so that was all the talk I've heard throughout the years about class d. yeah back then it was pretty much a/b, but i see where you're comin from now. thank you for the lesson. on a side note, have you ever heard of caraudiooutlet.co.uk? they have that us amps md2d for around $300, where woofersetc jas it for $600. not sure if it's british euros or whatever, but ill find out whenever they email me back. still, that's a hell of a difference. thanks again for that insight though, man. so the class d is all basically the same, just some have higher/lower efficiency, thd, etc..?

how was the power of them? did they meet your expectations? how did they sound? please, man, i need details! They are class D, so they sound like most other class Ds. The differences you here on the sub stage between most class D amplifiers is due to everything but the amplifiers themselves. Don't misunderstand what I am saying, there are differences, but 99% of the sound you hear is determined by everything before and after the actual amplifier stage... They are a 2Kw amp, so they will power any sub made. The last one drove an RE SX 15 to full output before audible amplifier clipping, but honestly, that took less than 1Kw in the alignment I was running... I've heard alot of people say that it's not the amp making the sound, but back in the day, there was a tremendous difference when changing out amps with the same head units and everything. of course it was usually from somethin like a jensen to a ppi, but still. and when i say sound, i mean like the fullness, or clarity or the lows produced. i mean, personally, there was no better bass than a ppi and jl sub. there was nothin that compared. i would like that sound again, which isn't even attainable with a jl sumb/amp combo.

hey fellas, quick question off topic. since everybody's talkin about my chargin system bein inefficient, how do you guys feel about capacitors? it just hit me that back in the day everybody that had any decent power was runnin em. I've never used one, so i figured I'd check you guys. does anyone have experience with them? and what's the pros/cons? thanks men, and i really appreciate all the help here. this is a great forum. especially compared to some other more popular places. but i won't get into that now.

Then would look at a Fi sp4 series sub if you want a top rated U.S. built sub.http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp415/ oh, thanks alot man! here i am content with my sub and just stuck on an amp, and you throw this one at me! that is one beast of a sub, man. now I'm stuck, again! that fi is lookin real good to me. I'll have to think about it and compare that with the sq hdc4 that i was gonna get. as for the evil, that is a killer sub as well, but slightly out of my price range. but thanks for the suggestion though. I'm still thinkin about the amp, and i know any amp i pick isn't gonna feed either one of these subs. well let me say, either amp in my price range at the moment. now I'm back at square one with 2 subs and 2 amps to pick from. if only i had the cash for all of them!

how was the power of them? did they meet your expectations? how did they sound? please, man, i need details!

whoops, double post.

alright folks. I've been thinkin alot about the u.s. amps md2d. I'm kinda leary because they don't have a website, and re audio is somethin to them. I've heard people say that re bought them out, but re audio says they are a division of u.s. amps. what's the deal with that? i really like the looks of that amp though, and I'm willing to take a chance, but if it's a crappy amp then i don't want it. the description on woofersetc.com says that it has high quality components and double sided pcb etc... also .03% thd. i think it's either that or the arc audio xdi2000.1. anyone with experience with either of these? mainly the us amp, I've seen some people on here talk about arc, and it was all good things so I'm not really worried about buyin that one. just like i said, i can't find anything for u.s. amps directly, and that kinda worries me. whenever i do a major audio purchase, i always like to contact the company beforehand just to get a taste of the customer service. i haven't tried going through re audio yet, amd quite frankly if i have to, then they're not a division of u.s. amps, they are the owners. and i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. mainly because i don't like the looks of the re audio's, inside or out.

i forgot to add that the one i do in the stang is gonna be straight competition with as many 15's as i can get in it. the back seats are already gone, so space isn't an issue!

this one's goin in a minivan. the next ones gonna be in the stang. it'll be a few years though, but I'm not goin anywhere, so stay tuned.

i know i don't need a 4" coil for beastly bass, but the thing is I've never had one and want to try it. you gotta realize that back in the day we had 1 - 2” coils. when i seen 2.5" i was amazed. then 3 came and that was like wtf! so now i have the opportunity to sample a 4", and I'm jumpin on it. as for the front stage, that's already picked and I'm content with it. if it doesn't keep up with the sub, then I'll cross that bridge when i come to it. but i doubt it'll be a problem.

thanks tatts, i must've been typing my novel when you where posting. i think the box is supposed to be about 4.5-5 cubic feet, but I'm not sure right off, I'll check everything before i start building, of course. thank you for seeing this from my perspective, i appreciate that. i was considering the us until i saw the arc audio. now I'm stuck between them 2 with sundown still knockin on my brain! the us md2d has less thd then the arc or zed, but the power is moderate compared to the arc or sundown, so I'm still not sure. i plan to build the box to specs which I'm unsure if the cubic feet is with or without the port included. this is my first time building a box to spec, usually i just got it close and they always sounded good, but we're talkin me bein 16-20 years old. i was young, dumb and full of,,, myself! also i want to make a detachable bandpass enclosure that can be removed if i want and what not. the reason for that is because i want the speaker to be hidden so i can still throw shit in there without worry. also in my experience the bandpass gives good lows. that mustang was an 89 lx 5.0 with a worked over motor, tremec t5 and a whole-lotta suspension work, done by yours truly. i have an 01 cobra now, as when i got my 97 cobra back in 98 i just fell in love with the cobras and never turned back. are you keepin yours stock, or slightly modded or heavy mods or what? i love stangs, man.

okay, i want a higher power amp for the future. I'm a father of 3 and i don't have money to upgrade my hobbies all the time. I'm lucky to be getting this! i figure if i go with something beastly now, then i can upgrade my electrical in the future to fully utilize the potential. if i go with somethin crappy now, then I'm pretty much stuck with it for a long time. then I'll be upgrading my amp instead of the electrical, then I'll just be in the same situation I'm in now. the voltage at the battery right now with heat, headlights/interior lights, radio, my cell and 2 kids' laptops plugged in I'm seein 14.85. i know that's no 2000 watt amp, but it tells me the charging system is pretty stable. i get no drop at all with the aforementioned accesories. i feel like I'll be okay runnin a couple of amps. maybe i won't see their full potential, but I'll be happy. like i said before, i had almost 3000 watts pullin out of a stock 89 mustang 5.0 electrical, w/ 2/0awg and had no problems. and that system was extremely loud and hard hitting with no distortion at all. i don't see why this would be any different, my alternator is 130 vs. the mustangs 160amp. I'm using 1/0 now vs. 2/0 then. the amps where jl audio so they where accurate voltage and the mid/high amp was bigger then, 600x4 compared to a 200x4 now. i don't intend to turn the gains all the way up either, in fact that's one of the reasons i want high power, so i don't have to. i think I've made up my mind on the amp anyway, it's the arc audio xdi 2000.1. have you guys had experience with this amp? is it nice sounding and reliable?

about the amps' sound; i meant based on componentry you'll get either a zed sound or a power acoustik sound. they both might put out 1000 watts, but the zeds going to have a fuller, cleaner sound than the pa. my interest in the soundqubed sub Lie's not only in the 4" voice coil, but it's also the looks and the direct leads and the optional carbon fiber dustcap. i like all of that, and the logo is decent too. as far as electrical goes, i have a 130 amp alternator and plan to run an extra battery. along with 1/0 all the way, plus I've done the big 3 and added an additional engine to battery ground. I've ran alot of equipment in the past including a 2000 watt jl amp with another 600x4 jl amp without another battery, and that was 2/0 all the way and never had a problem. that was my last major system install in a mustang with 160 amp alternator, pushin 3-12's and several mid-bass/mid/high components. I'm still unsure of the amp because i want a good clean sound, and around 2000 watts rms. and i know most are measured at 14-16v, and will not put out that much at a lower voltage, but i don't think I'll have that much trouble just because i don't have a 300amp alternator and 10 batteries. like i said, that'll come later on, when i decide to perhaps either strap the existing amp or go bigger, like to 5000-7500watts. so I'm just tryin to decide which amp has clean sound, decent wattage in the 1000-2000 range and dependability/reliability. and i asked you guys because you have experience with the brands that I'm not familiar with, so thanks for all the advice, and remember I'm not new to the scene here. i just never had a sundown or new u.s. amps or rainbow or incriminator etc.. also, based on the specs, the us amps md 2d looks like a pretty decent amp and a definite contender. what do you guys think of that? i know it's not the wattage of the sundown, but thd is .02%, that's pretty clean sound from my experience. and also better than the zed which i believe is .1%. please correct me if I'm wrong. *edit; also, i plan to build my own enclosure with the specs of the manufacturer recommendations for internal volume. so I'll have the right enclosure.

ah, so i should space out the different aspects of my questions? yes, proper paragraphing is essential for people to stay interested in the conversation, i agree completely. thank you, and i just wasn't thinking and i apologize. here, that's better, huh? anyway, i must've just misinterpreted that comment about watts and such, and i apologize for that as well. now off to the reason we're here. i understand what you're sayin about a low wattage with adequate power and what not, but i want alot of watts even if i can't feed it properly from the get go, I'll have it for the future when i do upgrade my alt, etc... i seen those ssa subs, but they where out of my price range. i need to keep the sub around $450 if I'm goin with the sundown amp that's around $540. as i only have a grand for sub/amp combo. I've been looking at u.s. amps, rainbow, arc audio and powerbass. have you had any experience with any of these? I've been reading that thread about favorite brands, and I've seen people mention them, so i figure they should all be decent. thanks again for your help, and i will keep the paragraph thing in mind in the future, as it does make it alot easier to comprehend. *edit; there is also a difference in the components of amps to make them sound better, it's not just in the install or the voltage or wires or whatever.

i checked out the ssa subs, along with every other damn sub i came across. even dad's, which weren't that bad especially for the price. anyway, i think I'm gonna go with the soundqubed hdc4 mainly because it has a 4" voice coil, and everything else has a 3". I've never had a sub with that big of a voice coil, hell I've never seen a sub with that big of one, so i figure I'll try it. being a competition sub and seeing as how I'm just gonna be streeting it, it should last a long time. as far as the amp goes, I'm still up in the air with it. i was considerin the zed, but the power of the sundown is very tempting. i know clean power is better than muddy power, but from what everyone says, the sundown is pretty clean too. is it as clean as the zed? i doubt it just from the way they look on the inside, but I'm no expert so I'd appreciate any help you guys can give here. *edit; you guys know i was joking with the 12awg power wire, right?

damn fellas, (assumably), i really appreciate all this input. i am aware of the imported components in american made gear, hell i don't even know if there are any manufacturers in the u.s. that make the small electronics that comprise our amps. and I've seen the sundowns and such on youtube and the koreans clearly know a thing or two about making electronics. from what I've read however, their components are imported from japan too, so i wonder if a japanese made amp would be the best? they certainly know their shit when it comes to electronics. anyway, off subject there, i have to disagree with whoever said an amp is an amp. I've had many amps in the past almost 30 years, and some sound different then others. the best sound that I've ever heard, imo, was the ppi amp and jl audio sub combination of the early-mid 90's. there was just a distinct sound to them that I've never heard with anything else. even jl amp on jl sub doesn't sound anything like it. of course I'm going to have the audiocontrol eqs to tune everything up so I'm sure I'll get sound quality regardless. but I've seen some subs advertising straight competition use, so i don't know if they'd be good for sound quality music, or if they're just for spl burps. I'm going to check out the ssa's here in a minute, and i still don't know about an amp. i do intend to use my stock charging system for now, because i didn't budget for that and i aint changin it now because I'll wind up losing some equipment, and i don't want that! who would? i did the big 3, well 4 because I've added an additional ground from the engine to the point where the battery is grounded to the chassis. i might run a ground from the battery to the distribution block for the amps. depends on how much wire i have left over. that 12awg extension cord is expensive!

certainly, and i appreciate this. space is somewhat of an issue as it has to fit comfortably in the hole in the back of a grand caravan, but it's rather large so I'll probably have no problem there. I'm putting together a complete system and I've left myself around $1000-$1200 for the sub/amp/box, but i think I'll be able to build a box outside of that budget if need be. I'm wanting a 15" and the decent boxes I've seen on ssa are like $3?? so i figure I'll be better off building one so i can dedicate more $$ to the equipment. i want sq with spl on the side, so I'm going for an overpowered amp so i can keep the gain way down. i like the big rubber surround on the sundown, but the soundqubed just looks better imo. and i was liking the soundqubed amp until i seen that comparison, which i know it's not a bad amp, but i might as well get a brutus. either way now I'm leary about anything made in korea and was checkin the mmats and zeds, cuz linear power is kinda ugly, imo, and expensive. that's about where I'm at right now. thanks again.

i know that's right. and you said i CAN go wrong with either? i have to assume you meant can't, or else you may be referring to all the complaints I've read about zed amps and people having trouble with them? what equipment do you run?

by xcon or zcon, are you referring to sundown x and z? sorry, I'm a bit of a noob with the newer slang, unfortunately my slang is still stuck in the 80's & 90's! as for the amp, i think i might go with the zed minotaur III, can't go wrong with that, huh? i might start lookin for a sub that's made in the u.s. as well, i don't know. at this point i feel kind of shitted because of that component comparison, i kind of figured they shared similar stuff because they're built in korea, but when you see it for a fact, well, it's heartbreaking.