heftybone

thanks jake. so i guess 3db isn't going to yield a significant seat-of-the-pants difference then? i wouldn't think it would anyway. also on a side note, would me changing my 10awg copper+ and aluminum- speaker wire to 12awg both copper and actual 12awg make any difference?

reading more on the meter from ratshack? it's hard to call it they because they do sell quality products. well as far as their speaker wire goes anyway, but damn it's pricy. and the only reason i was going there is because they're closing and everything's like 80% off. oh anyway, the meter says its got +/-2db accuracy at 94db spl, but it also says for home/hobbyist use, so yeah, it's probably not accurate. i know this sub hits harder than any other system I've ever had, even the 3 jl audio 12's @ 2000 watts. and that system could flip half-dollars on a snug-top. I'm sure the box needs to be bigger though, but i couldn't imagine it actually gettin harder. but I've still got to wire it at 1ohm so it sees it's full potential. but I've read that a 500watt increase only gives 3db, so i guess it's not gonna get that much harder if that's the case. i don't know, I've never had a system of this magnitude. the highest quality has been jl audio because that's what the local shop deals in. the shit i got now is much better quality then jl. by a large margin.

well thank you alton, i think I'm gonna move now! seriously though, that's good to information. I've always had crossovers and eq's but I've always just tuned by ear until it sounded good to me, (which we all know is all that matters). anyway, now I'm matchin the gain voltage to the hu volts and settin crossovers matching and all that jazz and it sounds good too, so to me what I'm doing now is giving me the same results as I've always got. and m5, i wouldn't say my enclosure is crappy, it's just not right for this sub unless i seal it. which then I'm afraid it's going to diminish my spl severely. so here's a new question; how many decibels would i lose by sealing it? if it's like 1 or 2 then I'm gonna go for it, but if it's more like 10-20, I'll stay with what i have. because again, it doesn't sound bad at all and I'm still in the breaking in stage so I'm only putting around 400watts to it. when i feel it's broke in then I'm gonna run it at 1ohm and see what happens. and yes that will be before i make any changes elsewhere.

yeah, i got higher frequencies out of the sub, it just doesn't hit that hard at those notes as it does on the lows. i have the front stage crossed-over at 80hz along with the sub at 80hz, so I'm thinkin I'm gettin all of the range of the music, but i don't know if I'm missing anything because they're both set to stop at that single point instead of overlapping. i kind of expected to have more spl than 126, but like you said perhaps the meter isn't quite the best or what have you. maybe I'll take it to my local shop, although i may get some reluctance because i didn't buy from them, I'll still ask if they can meter it for me so i can find out from a more reliable source.

oh no, the front stage is rather pleasing. very nice sound and loud with just the pioneer hu running the 2 bostons and 2 pioneers i got for cheap. those highs keep up rather well, i was talking about the high frequencies of the sub itself. they don't hit very hard but the lows are hitting hard. that's where i seen 126 at about 32-36hz, that's my guess anyway. the meter is an spl meter, it has the little mic on top, but only goes to 130db. it has selection for a or c weighting, c being for music so i assumed that it was somewhat precise. at least more precise than the app on my phone! I'm sure i have to do somethin with the enclosure though. the sub calls for 3cubes sealed (if you didn't read my previous, previous post), so i might just seal it up. but do you think it will produce more decibel in the right sized sealed box as apposed to the wrong size ported?

okay people, it's all hooked up and sounding pretty good. the higher frequencies don't hit as hard as the lows, but i like it low anyway so that's not a big deal for me. i suppose if i did a 6 cubic foot box like the sub calls for, it might sound better, but i don't see how because there's no distortion or waning like alot of subs do in the wrong enclosure. I'm seeing 126db from a radio shack spl meter. i was wondering if that was good for 1 15" sub? i know it hits harder than any other single sub system that I've ever had, it even hits harder than the 3 jl audio w2's i had with 2000watts pushin em. as far as electrical goes, i definitely need an upgrade, but it's not that bad. just some slight headlight dimming. plus I'm sure i can get more out of this amp if i upgraded. I've got the sub wired at 4 ohms now, but i intend to wire down to 1ohm after she gets broke in, and perhaps I'll wait until i upgrade the electrical. what's your thoughts on that? i have to say thanks again to everyone for the advice. on a side note, i went to my local jl audio dealer, as i was considering one of the w3 15's and the owner and i where discussing my enclosure design with the lengthy port modification and according to jl audio, the port works if you calculate it correctly. what a surprise to me! anyway, thanks again fellas and please someone tell me if 126db is good for 1 15.

well people, things have changed a bit. thanks to obamacare and me not reporting my $6/hr raise, i owed somebody some money. evidently healthcare.gov. anyway, i had to 96 the fi, dammit!, in favor of a dayton audio um15-22. still a decent sub, doesn't take nearly as much power as the fi, but it's still 800watts rms, dual 2ohm vc and ¾" xmax. so it somewhat met my criteria, but not like the fi. also, it likes a 6cube box, which i don't have nor will i have because i have to keep some room in the van here! i have a 4.5cube box, so I'm a little short there. it does take a 3cube sealed though, so if it doesn't work right in the ported, I'll just close it up and viola, I'll be right on sealed specs. I've built this box to be very versatile, i can easily close it off to make 3cubes. i also had to change up my amp, which is where i chose to spend the majority of the money, so i can have good power next year. so thanks again for all the help, and I'll let you guys know how it sounds.

wow. that's very impressive. bombs huh? i hope you get those calculations accurate! man you wouldn't think acoustic and vibration physics would be exciting, but yeah. i bet you see some cool shit, man. thanks for sharin, and i am honored to have your help and advice. i feel secure knowin that the teachings came from such a knowledgeable source.

thanks man, will do. I'll be ordering tomorrow if everything goes right.

you really don't read much do you. and you have the audacity to call me a troll? you are truely an idiot. and m5, that was supposed to be "what kind of". my phone was actin funny when i kept postponing my update. it's better now, and you answered my question anyway. what kind of things do you apply the acoustical physics to? structures, automobiles, etc..?

hey, are there any coupons active now? I've tried the fall one and it didn't work. my orders not quite $1000 and I'm not gettin an alternator so i didn't try the others. i would like 75% off and a free t-shirt and some stickers!

like i said, I'm good at math, i just don't like it! m5, what know nd of physicist are you? and then didn't realize that there where degrees for acoustics. huh, you really do learn something new everyday. well, every other day maybe. well maybe once a week or so, cuz when you know it all its hard to learn anything new! and honda man, I'd never pay anyone to do anything for me! unless it's installin speakers in a dash or doors, man i hate that! or maybe my laundry too. you guys do realize that i like to joke around alot, so you know that I'm not serious with alot of this stuff. i just can't bring myself to say lol, or somethin girly like that. I'm a MAN! YEAH!!

i didn't say you took it too serious. i said you took it way serious. not meaning way TOO serious, just meaning that you took it very serious where i did not. please don't take that the wrong way.

good god man! that's a hell of a rig dude. nice lookin box too. and yeah, i had alot of subs back in the day, but I've not had too many from the future! (which is now, for all you young guys ). they've never really been too high-powered either, 6-700watts is probably the highest I've ever had, and when i consider the electrical systems that where never upgraded, i doubt they ever seen anywhere near that wattage. so of course they would benefit from a bandpass as opposed to the 1000-3000watt rms subs of today. and i ran an electronic crossover with all of my setups. gotta love that bass-boost! somethin that occured to me today as well, you guys take this car audio thing way seriously, where i never took it so serious. it was always more of a good time, fun type hobby cuz i love bass. and sound quality, but bass more! i never realized that there was so much science and math involved. i love science too. math, not so much. I'm good at it, but i just don't like it. well at least i didn't in school, i can use a calculator now! anyway, cool digs man, and thanks for posting that.

that's a good idea on the port, wish i would've thought about it before i got this far along in the build. i may not even go with that same sub now, as funds may not permit. so I've halted for now until i know for certain which sub I'm goin with. also, i wasn't sure if the bandpass was the best idea for that sub, i just figured I'd try it out and see what happened. even if the software is perfect, it's never gonna replicate the sound of the actual box/sub in front of you. so i always want to hear that for myself. and i didn't think anyone would be willing to help me with a modeling software because nobody seemed too willing, and I'm new so i didn't want to be too intrusive. thanks for the advice though, fellas. i appreciate all the help i can get.

yeah, I'm worried about screwin this up now since I've been doin it, not necessarily wrong all these years, just not as right as i could/should be. like i said before though, if it doesn't produce the sound or hit that i expect a sub of this magnitude should have then i can easily remove the extension and have the right size port. as the calculator on the12volt.com said anyway. it seems like it's a good calculator, especially compared to others that I've tried, so i feel comfortable with it. i would rather model it before hand, but if it turns out to be completely wrong when i do model it, I'll just build a whole new box. which i may do anyway after i get that software. unfortunately my space is limited to 40lx18wx18h, so I'm somewhat confined there as far as allowing for more cubes. but i can attain around 5cubes, which i have now (4.8). i figured the little bit of extra length that I've added wouldn't hurt anything, but I'm not certain of course. oh, i just had an idea, i might know where to get a laptop to borrow, I'll update when i know more. thanks alot though, man. i really appreciate all of this. even if some of my posts seem to be hardheaded, I'm still learning from you guys.

what if i made the outlet of the port smaller? would that help compensate for the increased length and the choking you speak of? the gross volume now is 4.8cubic feet, the port length is 41" right now and i think that's all I'm goin with it (over the 34" that the calculator i used suggested for 32hz). the opening is 4.5"x16.5". i still can't find a mobile box modeler, so i have to wait on my motherboard for my pc to get a proper one like winisd, but I'll probably have all of this installed by then, because that project is on the back-burner for this one! i will still get it and model it just to see the outcome, because I'm curious.

i tried to find a mobile modeler, but i don't think they have one. and what's close on the google play store, I'm unsure of so I'm not wastin $1 to find out. i got a woofer box calculator that seemed as though it was pretty concise, as it allowed me to factor cabin space, box/port volume, speaker specs and wattage. but when i started figuring everything my setup was to yield 137db but if i changed my box to their recommended size (which was 1.6cubes), i was to see 120db. so i don't know of the accuracy of that app. does anyone know of a mobile modeler that will calculate everything? and give me what i need to know.

well i seen many variations of boxes built from software and assessed by the knowledgeable peoples on various websites, so it's kinda like i did use software. sort of. i just took inspiration from their designs and built the volume to my subs specs. I've used volume and port calculators to find the specs on my box. i will google some software and load my box in to see what i have though. i would like to see what that comes up with. I'm on a phone and my pc is down at the moment, I'm waiting on a new motherboard so i can put it back together. so i hope there's a mobile app.

aww man, you missed it!

thank you alton. you've clarified the situation completely. i am willing to learn, but it's hard to when everyone's just saying that was wrong, when it wasn't to me. i love to experiment and if that means i have to build 10 enclosures before i get it right, then so be it. i don't feel modeling software will deliver what i want as i can't hear it first hand. it just tells me that it's wrong or what have you. i like to experience first hand, and am not afraid to work and rebuild no matter what. i realize that software would make that job easier, and i would only have to tweak the small things in order to achieve my goal. i have observed many designs I've found in posts and what not where people have used software, and others have made suggestions until it was "right". therefore, i feel comfortable in the design that I've settled on, and am now just experimenting with the port length. i have read the specs for the sub that I'm getting, I've also conversed with someone from fi personally to attain the correct dimensions and specifications for this sub. i don't feel I'm going blindly as i have so much in the past. pmuerika, I'm not doing a 4th order anymore. i stated that in my second post. m5, i don't feel I'm defending illogical thinking as I've been happy with the outcome of everything I've built. illogical thinking would be if i did ignore everything that everyone was saying and plead that i am right and you are wrong. I've never said that any of you where wrong, i stated that I've been happy with what I've done, so that's not wrong to me. of course there's always more to learn, and i am taking everything into consideration but that's not gonna stop me from experimenting. i have the correct port length built into this box @ 32hz, I'm adding another section to it to see how it sounds. so if it's not what i want or like, then I'll remove it and have a box that is exact to specs. the sub is located at the opposite side of the port, firing at a 45° angle. should sound good, i would think as like I've said i seen boxes like this that people where asking about and other more knowledgeable people have replied positively that it was good. and they deaigned theirs with software, and i have correct air space and everything. so i have learned from this. and again i appreciate everyone's help. especially you aston, you are a very intelligent person, thank you.

i must admit that i did choose the z cam from ford. it had great specs and it was cheap at the time. and i understand completely what your telling me, so don't get me wrong and think that I'm not listening. i realize that these woofers require certain spaces to work in and even how the material of the box changes the sound. don't think that I'm just buildin whatever i want however big or small, i do measure and everything but as far as sub placement or things like that i didn't usually consider. and basically you're saying if i did then it would have been even better than what i had back then. i wish i would've learned more back then, but in the 80's & 90's the only way we had to learn that is from the guy that knew more then you. which was mitch at the local stereo shop. he never really got into those specifics, but again, I've never had one wrong because as i learn now i see that my placement was correct, so i guess i just got lucky. but it was just somethin that i figured. you know, it looks good there, or lets try pointing it to the rear etc.. again i was young back then, but i always had fun doin it. and i do appreciate your help, and I'd like you to assess this new box that I'm doin and see what i could or should do different. except for the port, I'm still tryin that to see what happens. like i said, it's very easy for me to remedy anything about this particular enclosure, because of the way I'm building it.

i believe I've kept my composure and am just trying to defend my way of thinking. I'm not bashing anyone, in fact my post to m5 includes a compliment to him. well i might've just bashed jay-cee, but he kinda called me a troll. anyway, that's the way i think and feel and just because some people don't agree with it, doesn't make it wrong. if I've never gotten bad sounds or low hit then i don't see why everyone thinks it was wrong. i would agree with all of you if i experienced distortion or that shabby waning sound that some subs do at higher hz, usually in a box they've gotten from the local dealer, which is to spec. I've never had anything but nice smooth deep sound throughout the range with hard hit. can't we all just, get along? I guess not if you won't listen to the other solution and think that yours is the only way. Grow up man.dude, i never said mine is the only way, perhaps it is for me, but I'm not tryin to get you guys to change, you're tryin to change me. so, nyaahh i won't grow up!! tthhhpppttt!!! :p

Your posts say that you don't. VERY clearly.dude, i may not have a technical knowledge such as yourself. as you seem to know alot about this. what I'm wanting to know now is, how do you know what won't work if you've never tried it? is it just because your learnings say different, or because an app says that it won't work? i enjoy learning more when I'm trying different things. i don't understand how let's say a 12 can be any better than what I've gotten out of them. i could almost flip a quarter on the roof of my vw fox with 1 12 in a bandpass in the trunk, I'd say that's pretty good and i don't see how it could be any harder except with more power as that one only had around 400watts goin to it. it was a 600rms sub if i remember correctly. like I've said, the bottom line is that I've never had a sub box that didn't sound good or hit hard. and I'm not ignorant to the potential of subs, i know when a sub isn't reaching it's full potential. so how could they be better if they are hitting hard and sounding good? by making sure they utilize the exact air space? I'm sure they where though, or else they wouldn't have sounded good, right? granted, i do not know as much as you about the correct spec building method, but i know how to measure a box and say, well that's 4cubes it's too much and back it down. I'm not just blindly throwing pieces of wood in a pile, squirting glue all over it and callin it a box! i do add some screws too! seriously though, if i make the port longer then it calls for, what's gonna happen exactly with the sound or feel of the bass? am i going to diminish the quality or the feel of it? i assumed it would sustain the notes longer. again this is me experimenting and just because you say it's not good isn't going to stop me from trying. you can build boxes to spec all day long and assume that something different isn't going to be good. but until you try and see for yourself, it's always just an assumption. Why does everything have to be a 4th order build. Stop and listen to what people are telling you !Some of us what to hear the music as it was played. Not just overpowering bass. i thought that's what midbass woofers where for? feel the sub, hear the music. it's not like i couldn't hear anything but bass, i love music and like to experience the full range of whatever I'm listening to.

How does an engine builder know that a cam overlap of 90deg won't work if he's never tried it?Exactly why I recommended that you start learning instead of trying. It is really rather simple. actually i think it was iskendarian that played (experimented) with different degree angles and lobe durations to find the perfect combinations. he didn't just go by what everyone was saying. he practiced trial and error until it was right. which now i do spec them more. i always get within range of the recommended air space, but i still like to try somethin different too. like the longer port, for example.